MEA
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Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:55 am

Airbus Gains Entry to Qantas, But Boeing Still Reigns

WILLIAM DENNIS/MELBOURNE and SYDNEY

Airbus may have crashed the Boeing-Qantas party with an order for 12 Airbus A380s and 13 A330/200/300s, but the 747-400 is expected to remain honored guest of the airline's fleet for the next five years.
Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon said the carrier expects delivery of 25 additional -400s beginning in March 2002 to 2006, and has six of the Increased Gross Weight versions on order.

The 12 A380s Qantas committed to purchase late last year are scheduled for delivery in 2006-11, and Dixon said the -400s are to remain the core aircraft for services to Singapore and European destinations, including London. Qantas 767-300s would be deployed on some domestic routes and services to Singapore, China and Taipei.

Dixon said heavy demand for Japan services is pushing Qantas to buy or lease 767-400s to replace 767-300ERs. The airline also plans to acquire more narrow-body aircraft in its domestic fleet of 22 737-400s and six -300s.

Until Dec. 12, 2000, Qantas had an all-Boeing fleet. The order for the A380s and A330s was the first ever from Qantas for the Toulouse-based manufacturer, which had fought fruitless battles with Boeing in the past even for narrow-body aircraft orders.

QANTAS HAD FOUR A300s in its fleet for a short-term period several years ago. These aircraft, part of Qantas' purchase of now-defunct domestic carrier Australian Airlines, were subsequently sold.

With the A380, Qantas would be able to provide additional capacity from Sydney to Los Angeles and Europe--enough to fill 555 seats, according to Dixon. Increasing capacity by about 40% would necessitate a significant change in the aircraft type used on these routes.

The CEO said that while Melbourne-Los Angeles routes would have the added capacity by the time the aircraft is scheduled to enter service, there are no plans in place for upgrading the airport's runway and taxiway specifically to handle the A380.

"Part of the contract we have with Airbus is that the company has to ensure that airports would be ready to accommodate the aircraft. In the next year or so, we expect to get assurances from the airports respective authorities," Dixon pointed out.

Melbourne and Sydney airport authorities have not provided Qantas any indication when the facilities would be ready for the 747-400 IGW and A380.
Given that Singapore Airlines and Qantas are the two biggest airline operators in those cities, Dixon said he thinks the airport authorities would fulfill their agreement.

With Boeing abandoning its plan to develop the 747X in favor of faster, lower-capacity aircraft, Airbus could see more orders from Qantas for the superjumbo. The A330s, scheduled for delivery in 2002-05, would initially be used on domestic flights replacing 767-200s that are to be gradually phased out. The A330s would later be deployed on the Australia-Hong Kong routes.

Dixon said Qantas' exhaustive evaluation of the A330 showed that, compared to the 767-200, the aircraft would allow improved economies of scale, higher flexibility and a quantum leap in the number of passengers carried.

The chief of the troubled carrier declined to discuss specifics about Qantas' forecast passenger traffic growth, but commented that economic conditions would determine the rate of growth, not, as some industry observers believe, alliances.

"ONE PROBLEM IN INDUSTRY today is that airlines grow for the sake of growing, but they do not reap profits due to high operating costs," Dixon said.

Qantas, along with Air New Zealand, has been seriously wounded of late by the region's low-cost domestic airline competitors, Virgin Blue and Impulse, who have waged ruthless deep discount wars.

The majors retaliated by adding more capacity, which in turn only spurred Impulse and Virgin to do the very same. Analysts say that the majors would be able to endure the crises, but that they would first need to lower operating costs by 20% (AW&ST Mar. 12, p. 52).
Qantas plans to take some stringent measures, however, including a 25% reduction in middle management staff in Australia, slashing about 1,250 positions in the next six months and eliminating unprofitable routes.

Article from AviationNow

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Have I missed something or is QF really ordering the B764 as stated above?
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:27 am

I wonder how much Boeing PAID Qantas to take some of their fast selling 764's ??
 
n949wp
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:35 am

Tryin' to start an A vs. B war? Naughty, naughty!!
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:40 am

When would the 764's enter service and what routes would they fly?
 
aardvark
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:41 am

Hkgspotter1,

About the same as what Airbus paid QF for the A330
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:53 am

No, No, No.... Just stating that the 764 must be one of the most under ordered aircraft in modern days.

How many have been ordered ?
 
NWA742
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:54 am

N949WP,

He always tries to start wars by showing his incredible hatred for Boeing and America, just ignore him.
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:57 am

Hkgspotter1:

Firstly, Qantas has not bought the B764ER, and I will be quite surprised if QF buys the B764ER. Notwithstanding, your comment is simply naive. Tell me how you would explain the rumor that Airbus gave away the A330 to get QF buy the A380?

You are one of the worst offenders in this forum of inciting unnecessary hostility. Yet, you will criticize Singapore_air every time he posts something about CX, negative or not. Grow up!
 
Spaceman
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:14 am

Didn't Boeing shelve the plans to build the ER version of the 767-400? If Qantas wants to order them Boeing has to put the design back to the drawing board and start the process again, and only for one customer? That would probably not be enough to justify the cost for bringing the new type to production. Also Qantas could easily fly the route with the 330s they are getting.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:18 am

Boeing cancelled the 767-400ERX, the extended range version. The 767-400ER is the current baseline model that CO and DL have purchased.

Neil
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:19 am

No. The basic model is the -400ER. The shelved -400ERX probably would have gotten the -400LR designation. Qantas has ordered the A332 which is more capable than the B764ER. That's why I said that I woulbe be quite surprised if QF buys the B764ER.
 
9V-SVE
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:20 am

They want 30 more 747s? Man!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:28 am

I agree. The 764ER and 332 are very close in capacity. it would be surprising to see both in the QF fleet.

Many of those 30 addl 744's may be replacements for early 744's, and of course the remaining 742/743 fleet.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
NWA742
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:39 pm

No, No, No.... Just stating that the 764 must be one of the most under ordered aircraft in modern days.

How many have been ordered ?


To put it this way, more 764s have been ordered in it's short time of being for sale, then A340-200s since 1993 or so.......
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:52 pm

"The chief of the troubled carrier declined to discuss specifics about Qantas' forecast passenger traffic growth, "

Um, like troubled? since when is Qantas troubled. last I checked they were one of the most economically strong airlines in the world.

On this 764 thing, it may happen on a leasing basis but I donthink we are talking long term here.
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
NZ767
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 7:49 pm

Hmm, what would be better??
Boeing or Airbus??  Big thumbs up
 
The Coachman
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:50 pm

There's no quote, this is just one analyst saying that Dixon wants more jumbos.

In my mind, that's crazy, 10 more 744ER's at most, unless he wants to replace the entire 744 fleet and 743 fleet at the same time.

By the time of 744 renewal, the A380 will have taken over most of the 744 routes.

764's is silly, why not order the 332's as they've already done? If they'd ordered the 777, I might see the point.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
cedarjet
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:08 pm

The whole article is shaky. Qantas might gradually replace the earliest 744s in the fleet but 25 seems unfeasibly high.

And there is no chance QF are getting 764s. They're not stupid.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
PerthGloryFan
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:01 pm

Qantas, along with Air New Zealand, has been seriously wounded of late by the region's low-cost domestic airline competitors, Virgin Blue and Impulse, who have waged ruthless deep discount wars. ?????

What's the date of this article???

About June 2001 or earlier?!?!

Clearly it's just out of date speculation.

If it was current there would be mention of the exAA B737-800s coming on line from now to the end of this year.

PGF
 
CX747
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:09 pm

Fellas, I truly believe that this article is quite dated. In fact I can remember it being posted quite some time ago. Therefore it is not new or up to date.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
yeeha
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RE: Qantas To Order The B764?

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:11 pm

I'm with you PerthGloryFan....Perth Glory RULESSSSSS

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