United Airline
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After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:05 pm

Hey guys........

I heard that QF will place the A 330 on routes between HKG, as well as other parts of Asia and Australia. And they plan to place the A 380 on some of their North American, as well as European routes.

After these two aircraft have arrived, will they still use the B 767-300s to fly to Asia? And will they still fly the B 747-400/400ER into USA, as well as Europe? For example, cities like HKG, LAX, SFO, LHR etc etc.....

I suppose so...... Right??????

Comments?
 
TNboy
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:24 pm

That seems to be logical. They will certainly retain 744s to Europe and USA to back up the A380. Maybe they will also reintroduce services to Canada and some of the Asian cities (not slotted in for Australian) where services have been reduced. There also has to be potential to add or improve international services from cities other than Melbourne and Sydney - Perth, Adelaide, etc., where a 763 might come in handy.
For example, Perth passengers can now not fly to Bangkok on QF, there are no services to China other than HK, none to anywhere else in Asia except Singapore and Tokyo. Even to London and Europe, you need to change aircraft in Singapore. With Thai, Singapore, Malaysian and soon Emirates all operating regular schedules, there has to come a time when the red roo will need to get back into these places seriously.
"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
 
United Airline
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:28 pm

What about the B 767s? Will they still to fly to Asia?
 
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yyz717
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:34 pm

The 330 and 380 will slowly 'top up' or augment the 763 and 744 on their heaviest routes at first and slowly replace them after time.

QF will operate a mixed fleet of 330/380 and 744/763 for many years, so the 744 and 763 will continue largely in their current roles, with the 380/330 on the heavier legs. Probably more 763 displacement to the domestic network before retirement, as with the 762 now.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
United Airline
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 5:19 pm

So, will the B 763 continue to serve the International Market?

Also, will QF eventually replace ALL of their B 747-400s? I strongly doubt it........ They still have a large number of B 747-400s on order. And they have just ordered 6 B 747-400ERs.

They might go for more in the future......... Perhaps the B 747-400QLR

Comments?
 
aardvark
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 5:48 pm

United Airline,

How many QF744s on order? I can find only the 6 744LRs on the Boeing site. Also, I'm with you on QF keepiong the B744. Whilst the A380 will be the flagship on its long haul services, the Boeing will be the workhorse.
 
9V-SVE
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:22 pm

Why would QF get rid of 744s? Same with SQ. A380s have some 100 more seats than the 744.
 
United Airline
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:26 pm

Yes you are right. Currently, there are only 6 B 747-400ERs on order.

However, Dixon has stated that Qantas expects delivery of 25 additional B 747-400s beginning in March 2002 to 2006. They plan to expand their B 747 fleet.

The B 747-300s will not leave anytime soon.

As for Flagship, there isn't a clear definition. The B 747-400 is still the Queen of the Skies. And it looks a lot more elegant.  Smile

Furthermore, I am sure Qantas will keep their B 747-400s up the standard of the A 380s

Comments?
 
United Airline
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:27 pm

9V-SVE,

No they won't. Instead, they will go for more.

-Desmond
 
aardvark
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:21 pm

United,

No arguments on that one.
 
The Coachman
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:41 pm

When did Dixon say that there were 25 more 744's on order???

source please.
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wirraway
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:54 pm

United Airline wrote
However, Dixon has stated that Qantas expects delivery of 25 additional B 747-400s beginning in March 2002 to 2006. They plan to expand their B 747 fleet.

Coachman
This is a figment of United_Airline's imagination, NO WAY
did Dixon state this, as with most of United_Airlines
posts, although he usually starts out "I Heard", this
is a load of unadulterated B/S.

Wirraway
 
United Airline
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:59 pm

Airbus Gains Entry to Qantas, But Boeing Still Reigns

WILLIAM DENNIS/MELBOURNE and SYDNEY

Airbus may have crashed the Boeing-Qantas party with an order for 12 Airbus A380s and 13 A330/200/300s, but the 747-400 is expected to remain honored guest of the airline's fleet for the next five years.
Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon said the carrier expects delivery of 25 additional -400s beginning in March 2002 to 2006, and has six of the Increased Gross Weight versions on order.

The 12 A380s Qantas committed to purchase late last year are scheduled for delivery in 2006-11, and Dixon said the -400s are to remain the core aircraft for services to Singapore and European destinations, including London. Qantas 767-300s would be deployed on some domestic routes and services to Singapore, China and Taipei.

Dixon said heavy demand for Japan services is pushing Qantas to buy or lease 767-400s to replace 767-300ERs. The airline also plans to acquire more narrow-body aircraft in its domestic fleet of 22 737-400s and six -300s.

Until Dec. 12, 2000, Qantas had an all-Boeing fleet. The order for the A380s and A330s was the first ever from Qantas for the Toulouse-based manufacturer, which had fought fruitless battles with Boeing in the past even for narrow-body aircraft orders.

QANTAS HAD FOUR A300s in its fleet for a short-term period several years ago. These aircraft, part of Qantas' purchase of now-defunct domestic carrier Australian Airlines, were subsequently sold.

With the A380, Qantas would be able to provide additional capacity from Sydney to Los Angeles and Europe--enough to fill 555 seats, according to Dixon. Increasing capacity by about 40% would necessitate a significant change in the aircraft type used on these routes.

The CEO said that while Melbourne-Los Angeles routes would have the added capacity by the time the aircraft is scheduled to enter service, there are no plans in place for upgrading the airport's runway and taxiway specifically to handle the A380.

"Part of the contract we have with Airbus is that the company has to ensure that airports would be ready to accommodate the aircraft. In the next year or so, we expect to get assurances from the airports respective authorities," Dixon pointed out.

Melbourne and Sydney airport authorities have not provided Qantas any indication when the facilities would be ready for the 747-400 IGW and A380.
Given that Singapore Airlines and Qantas are the two biggest airline operators in those cities, Dixon said he thinks the airport authorities would fulfill their agreement.

With Boeing abandoning its plan to develop the 747X in favor of faster, lower-capacity aircraft, Airbus could see more orders from Qantas for the superjumbo. The A330s, scheduled for delivery in 2002-05, would initially be used on domestic flights replacing 767-200s that are to be gradually phased out. The A330s would later be deployed on the Australia-Hong Kong routes.

Dixon said Qantas' exhaustive evaluation of the A330 showed that, compared to the 767-200, the aircraft would allow improved economies of scale, higher flexibility and a quantum leap in the number of passengers carried.

The chief of the troubled carrier declined to discuss specifics about Qantas' forecast passenger traffic growth, but commented that economic conditions would determine the rate of growth, not, as some industry observers believe, alliances.

"ONE PROBLEM IN INDUSTRY today is that airlines grow for the sake of growing, but they do not reap profits due to high operating costs," Dixon said.

Qantas, along with Air New Zealand, has been seriously wounded of late by the region's low-cost domestic airline competitors, Virgin Blue and Impulse, who have waged ruthless deep discount wars.

The majors retaliated by adding more capacity, which in turn only spurred Impulse and Virgin to do the very same. Analysts say that the majors would be able to endure the crises, but that they would first need to lower operating costs by 20% (AW&ST Mar. 12, p. 52).
Qantas plans to take some stringent measures, however, including a 25% reduction in middle management staff in Australia, slashing about 1,250 positions in the next six months and eliminating unprofitable routes.

Article from AviationNow

****************************************************************
 
The Coachman
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:33 pm

That's an article written by a journalist.

and it seems out of date if it talks about Impulse and implies that it still operates.

There is no direct quote from Dixon, and until that is written, or a similar statement released officially by the QF Media reps, then I cannot believe you United Airline and have to agree with Wirraway.

If you think that these are 'facts', then I tell you, you're sadly mistaken. Those 1250 middle management jobs were cut several months ago.
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wirraway
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:39 pm

United Airline

Before I have to eat crow and unreservably apologise
for my post, just what date did the above article
appear? if it was in the last 24hrs you have got youself
a scoop, as nobody here knows about it, just checked
Qantas website and there is no mention, did a search
on google and the only thing mentioning 25 aircraft
from Qantas is as follows:

Business 2000-11-29

Qantas orders 25 Airbus superjumbo jets, 6 Boeing 747s
By Stanley Holmes
Seattle Union Record

Boeing salvaged a small victory Tuesday for its proposed superjumbo-jet family, selling six longer-range 747-400 jetliners to Australia's Qantas Airways. But the sale was overshadowed by the much larger order for 25 jets from European rival Airbus Industrie - including 12 A3XX superjumbo planes seating about 555 passengers.

Qantas, which operates an all-Boeing fleet, bought the proposed A3XX as well as seven A330-200s and six A330-300s. The Australian carrier valued the Boeing and Airbus purchase at $4.6 billion.

The airline received deep discounts for being an early buyer of Airbus' all-new superjumbo jetliner. The list price is $220 million, but industry experts say the European plane maker has been selling them for as low as $150 million per jetliner.

Qantas executives said they selected the gigantic aircraft for its size and economic advantages; Airbus claims the superjumbo will be 15 percent cheaper to operate than Boeing's 747-400. The big jets will be used to absorb passenger growth on some crucial long-haul routes such as Sydney to London. The planes will be delivered between 2006 and 2011.

"The plan takes into account expected steady growth in key Qantas markets, plus replacement of several fleet types during the same period," Qantas Chief Executive James Strong said in a statement.

The orders are significant to both airplane builders, which have been competing for orders but disagreeing over the size of the market for a commercial jetliner that carries more than 500 passengers.

Boeing predicts the demand will be fewer than 400 planes; Airbus sees a market for more than 1,000.

The six-jet Qantas order gave Boeing enough confidence to launch its new 747X program, which will be assembled at the company's cavernous Everett factory. Deliveries will begin in 2002.

For Airbus, the Qantas purchase moves the European consortium one step closer to launching what would become the world's largest commercial jetliner and would threaten Boeing's monopoly of the lucrative market for planes seating 400 passengers or more.

Airbus now has 44 A3XX orders and has said it needs about 50 to formally begin building the big airplane and justify development costs of $10.7 billion. Most industry experts, however, say the cost to design and build the new plane could exceed $18 billion. Airbus is relying on some low-interest government loans to help finance a portion of the development.

Airbus, which is now a partnership of European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co., expects to formally launch the A3XX program in the first half of next year. The first deliveries are set for 2006.

For Boeing, which until the Qantas announcement had yet to sell one of its proposed 747X jets, can at least begin kicking the program into high gear. Boeing said it will cost about $4 billion to develop the 747X, which it will finance through internal cash flow and commercial loans.

"This order by Qantas gets us started on the new airplane family," Boeing Commercial Airplanes president Alan Mulally told reporters in a telephone conference.

The new 747 family will include several new models. The first will be a longer-range version of today's 416-seat 747-400, which will fly about 500 miles farther and carry more weight.

Boeing also hopes to blunt sales of the A3XX with different versions of a longer 747 jumbo jet, known as the 747X. One will seat as many as 524 passengers, a second will fly 430 people at very long ranges and the third will be an enlarged cargo jet.

Mulally acknowledged that the A3XX's larger size is a competitive advantage, but he told reporters he still believes that "the majority of the bigger airplanes will be sized around the 747X size."



 
United Airline
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:18 pm

It was posted yesterday......

I simply use it as a reference. I didn't say that we should believe it fully.

 
9v-svc
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Tue Mar 26, 2002 12:09 am

I hope QF's A330 will fly to Singapore .

Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
aq737
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Tue Mar 26, 2002 3:49 am

9V-SVC,
I do not think the 330 will serve the SIN route because demand on this route is very good.
 
Marara
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived.....

Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:00 am

they may do the ADL-DRW-SIN route (I HOPE Big grin)
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
airnewzealand
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Tue Mar 26, 2002 10:35 am

LOL marama!

Mike

PS: Dont you guys think QF is seriously going overboard with so much orders of Aircrafts?? I meet a Person from Melbourne when i was on holiday in Fiji who worked closely with the Golden rewards scheme for AN. He was also asking the same question, and said to me " You watch in 5-7 years Qantas will be no more!!"...now does anyone else seem to think this??
He may of just been a disgruntled person from the collapse (he didnt seem to happy when told my sister worked for AirNZ and was sitting about 5m away!!).
 
Marara
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived.....

Tue Mar 26, 2002 12:49 pm

I dont think QF has gone crazy ordering planes, QF has been in the market to start its fleet modernisation plan for a while and with prices being so low at the moment they would be crazy to pass it up. Next up on the shopping list for QF is the BAe replacement isnt it?


QF have the money, the opportunity and the market (although DJ may have something to say about that  Big grin)
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
The Coachman
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Tue Mar 26, 2002 1:54 pm

Faulty references are useless. Accuracy is the order of the day here.

I think the A330 might very well do PER-SIN to compete with SQ, BNE-SIN is also very likely to be A330-fied.
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United Airline
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Tue Mar 26, 2002 2:45 pm

We will see........  Smile
 
airnewzealand
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RE: After Qantas's A 330s/A 380s Have Arrived......

Tue Mar 26, 2002 5:19 pm

Yes, and when that market dissapears?? And the low prices, are just to low??
It is easy for DJ to operate with low costs as they operate one sort of Aircraft!!
QF donot...many types are operated!! It would be much harder for them to keep the costs down because of this!!

I do agree with you though Marama, but i am looking at the big picture!!

Mike