concorde1518
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 12:02 pm

Simultaneous Landings

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:11 pm

Hi, I do a lot of flying on FS2000 but one thing it does not simulate is the amount of traffic at the airport. (this may belong in the Aviation Hobby forum but I want the expert's opinion) That's why I was wondering how runway traffic worked. For example, SFO can only land and takeoff one plane at a time, right? (I swear I have seen two taking off and turning in opposite directions, maybe they were really staggered, I don't know lol) And, with that many runways at DFW, how many are active at a time? And, what about when you see Multiple aircraft landing at once, like at MSP, or LAX? I'm have very little know how in this area of aviation, so could someone please tell me procedures for some large airports, or just in general?


Thanks a lot!

 Smile
 
afitch7881
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:04 am

RE: Simultaneous Landings

Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:15 pm

Phoenix often has 2 landing at a time, the line of aircraft at night landing is a good 5-10 deep for each runway at times, it is neat to see at night.

PHX can handle 3 landings at a time but the third is stagered behind the closer runway because it is not 2500 feet apart? I know there is a distance needed between the 2 runways in order to do more than one landing or take off at a time.
 
concorde1518
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 12:02 pm

RE: Simultaneous Landings

Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:51 am

Thanks!
 
timz
Posts: 6081
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Simultaneous Landings

Thu Mar 28, 2002 10:36 am

In clear weather aircraft can land side by side at SFO; the greater runway spacing is needed for instrument landings.
 
concorde1518
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 12:02 pm

RE: Simultaneous Landings

Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:09 am

That clears that up. thanks guys.
 
Night_Flight
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 9:00 am

RE: Simultaneous Landings

Thu Mar 28, 2002 1:27 pm

ILS Simultaneous Landings

Not to get too technical but there are a few different types of ILS approaches. Many airports have two or three parallel ILS approaches. In order to get more airplanes to land, certain procdures were developed.

ILS approaches to parallel runways are divided into three classes depending on runway centerline separation as well as ATC procedures and capabilities: Dependent Parallel, and Independent Parallel. The Independent has two types: Simultaneous Parallel and Simultaneous Close Parallel.

Dependent Parallel ILS approaches may be conducted to parallel runways with centerlines at least 2,500 feet apart. The aircraft are also separated by at least 1.5 NM diagonally. This gives you one aircraft to the left, then one to the right and so on…On average, 29 arrivals per hour for each runway.

Independent Parallel ILS approaches are conducted with centerlines separated by 4,300 to 9,000 feet apart and these do not required diagonal separation. This gives you one aircraft to each runway at the same tme which allows more aircraft to land. On average, 58 arrivals per hour for each runway.

There is also a dedicated final controller who monitors the space between the two ILS approaches called the No Transgression Zone (NTZ). If the plane on the left drifts into the NTZ, then the aircraft on the right is vectored away to avoid a possible collision.

The Simultaneous Close Parallel ILS approaches are conducted with centerlines separated less than 4,300 feet apart. Minneapolis International (MSP) was one of the first to use this system.

The ILS-PRM (Precision Runway Monitor) uses advance radar that updates very quickly and is able to predict an aircrafts position 10 seconds ahead of time. When a plane drifts near the NTZ, both a visual and audio alarm go off and ATC can quickly issue breakout instructions to fly away from danger. While flying this type of approach, the flight crew talks to tower on one frequency and monitors a separate frequency that the radar controller will talk on if needed.

Any aircraft can fly an ILS-PRM approach as long as your airplane has Dual VHF Communications. There is a 20-minute video the FAA developed which quickly goes through the ILS-PRM procedures. The local FAA office (FSDO) may be able to get a copy for you.

-Night_Flight_
Remember when sex was safe and flying was dangerous?
 
concorde1518
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 12:02 pm

RE: Simultaneous Landings

Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:37 pm

thanks a lot for that!

 Smile
 
ThirtyEcho
Posts: 1409
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 1:21 am

RE: Simultaneous Landings

Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:08 pm

WOW, Night_Flight_. Impressive. I'll bet that you could even explain how to do an average-bisector orientation on a four-course low frequency range.

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