swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 5:41 am

All of us are well informed about the hard time for most of the member airlines of the former Qualiflyer Group and its Frequent Flyer Program "Qualiflyer" named ex Sabena, ex Swissair, Tap, LTU, ex AOM, ex Air Littoral, ex Air Liberté etc. It's also well known that the Qualiflyer Group disapeared and the Frequent Flyer Program will also exist in the future.

In this form I don't want to discuss about the problems between the airlines it self, much more I would like to hear your opinions and informations why all those Airlines mentioned above have not left the Qualiflyer Mileage Program. Are all those airlines waiting for a better solution and will quit the Qualiflyer FFP later?

Pesonally I don't see a reason why the new Sabena and all other airlines still want to be in the same Mileage Program than Swiss (former Crossair/Swissair), or do they?
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Contact Air
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 5:56 am

I think most of the airlines mentioned above (especially Swiss, Sabena / SN Brussels Airlines and TAP) are trying to join one of the big alliances (there have been rumours about Swiss joining OneWorld, but also other alliances are possible in my opinion).
But as long as the "new" airlines Swiss and SN brussels Airlines are not yet that established, the big alliances don't want them. So they have to keep up the Qualiflyer Frequent Traveller Program in order to offer their customers a competitive Frequent Flyer Program (a frequent flyer program of only SN, for example, wouldn't make much sense). But as soon as one of the airlines is able to join a major alliance, the Qualiflyer Programm might end, I think.
 
airways
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:20 am

A frequent flyer program shines to be a must for an airline that wants to fly business people. They can collect miles for their private use and that's making them loyal to their airline.

So, no airline can be without a ff-program (except the no-frills). As they don't have another solution, they are still staying in the Qualiflyer-program until they find a better solution. LOT for example, is likly ot join the Star Alliance. After such a step, I think they will quit the Qualiflyer membership and join LH's Miles&More. But right now, they don't have a solution.

For Swiss, I think they will keep Qualiflyer for the future.

I think that we will see further consolidation in frequent flyer programms in the future. Today, almost every large airline has it's own frequent flyer program. Soon, we will have about 3-5 worldwide alliances. Each of them with about 5-10 members and about 2-6 ff-programs. This numbers may not be very exactly, but I think it gives a general idea.

Wouldn't it be nice if some of the airlines would give up their ff-programs and merge them, for example, there would be a Star Miles program instead of LH's miles&more and UA's Mileage plus. Of course, people can already exchange miles from the two programs, but with a merge of them, the marketing could be much more powerfull.

Swissair did somethink like that with their Qualiflyer Group, it was an alliance with just one ff-program. Of course, they failed and we know that story, but the idea of one ff-program for one alliance is pretty interesting.

What do you think? Do you think, we will see a consolidation of ff-programs soon?

Michael
http://airways.ch
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 5:36 pm

SNBA is also a member of the Qualiflyer group, so...

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
swissgabe
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 5:43 pm

The Qualiflyer Group has been terminated, isen't it?
Only the Qualflye Freqent Flyer Program will be continued.
It has already been mentioned that SN Brussles is still member at the FQF Program...
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Sabena 690
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 5:47 pm

Sorry, that is what I meant. You can still earn those FQF miles, but I am not sure how it is with the QFG.

Look: this is a link from the site of SNBA. Scroll down a bit, and you will see the news about the QFG and the FQMiles.
http://www.brussels-airlines.be/news.htm

And the site of QFG still exists, so if you want some info, you can check this site out:
http://www.qualiflyer.com/

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
DragonRapide
Posts: 133
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:14 pm

Airways is correct when he says that airlines need to have a ff program.
Problem with Qualiflyer is indeed that it is the ff program of several airlines! So these airlines have no other choice then to continue with it!
Problem I see is: what if Swiss or SNBA or whoever joins a big alliance (Star, oneworld, ...). With an airline having its own ff-program this is no problem. Take bmi, suddenly your Diamond Club card earned you points on all STAR alliance airlines and you can spend them there as well.
Now take Swiss or SNBA. Lets say, for arguments sake, that Swiss joins Oneworld. How will they deal with qualiflyer? Qualiflyer could not possibly become part of the Oneworld ff program since this would become overcomplicated (flying SNBA would earn Qualiflyer miles but no OneWorld relation, flying Swiss would earn Qualiflyer miles that can be spend in the Oneworld alliance). On the other hand if an airline joins an alliance they just cannot make it to have their customers loose their mileage. Afterall it are the frequent flyers that are the best customers of an airline.

I still haven't found an answer to this problem. If anyone can tell me what is likely to happen I sure would like to know. If have many many Qualiflyer miles on my account, and I would be dissapointed to see tham go.
 
gerardo
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:42 pm

That's probably one of the important questions to be negociated between the SWISS and the individual oneworld member airlines.

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
gibberish
Posts: 411
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:13 pm

Yes, good question. I never really got the Qualiflyer program. For instance you can earn and spend miles on US Airways' flights. They have no relation what so ever.

But don't worry, they won't just expire, SWISS couldn't afford losing those customers. If there is a need to disolve the QF FF program, a new one will be created and the miles then transferred.

Remember Austrian and Turkish? They both left the QF program and joind another one (AUA --> DLH) or created a new one (TK --> Miles&Miles). If you were a AS or TK customer you got a letter asking if you would like to have your miles transferred to the new program or if you wanted to keep Qualiflyer.

The same would happen if SWISS were to create a new one.

gibberish
 
swissgabe
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:29 pm

Well, AY, AA and earlier CX where also QG members...
If SWISS goes into Oneworld I really hope to be able to take my miles into the new program. Should be possible anyway, they can't afford just to let billions of miles expire.

Well, the only reason why Qualiflyer Freqent Flyer Program is still existing is, that they are a company it self. So another question, who owned this company? Former Swissair, Sabena etc? Did they sell the company to Swiss / SNBA and other member Airlines?
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gibberish
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Wed Apr 03, 2002 1:27 am

I think when the Qualiflyer Group was founded (this happened long after Qualiflyer FFP started!) a new company called Qualiflyer Loyalty Ltd. was founded. That company now owns Qualyflyer FFP.

gibberish
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Wed Apr 03, 2002 1:38 am

Well, than my new question is, who owns Qualiflyer Loyality Ltd.?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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sabenapilot
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Wed Apr 03, 2002 1:44 am

SWISSGABE?

I wouldn't be so sure about being able to take the miles from the SR Qualifllyer program to the future Swiss OneWorld program without any problem.

After all, are you already forgotten how Swissair dealed with their passengers the day they filled for bankruptcy protection early October 2001?

Transfer pax which were in Zurich at that time awaiting their connecting flights were simply told SR would not fly anymore, their tickets were void, no refund would be made, no transport home would be arranged and no hotel accomodation would be provided.




 
swissgabe
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Wed Apr 03, 2002 1:54 am

Well, we thats another point of view. But since SWISS is a new member of the Qualiflyer Loyality Program I think they just have to overtake this old Swissair stuff now.

I don't think that this thing can be compared to the Swissair grounding and their financial situation. I would also like to mention that not only transit passengers tickets where void. My girlfriends family bought tickets for around USD 1500.
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mathias2k
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:14 am

Did you notice the LX logo on the top of the page ?
www.qualiflyer.com
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:40 am

I don't see an Airline logo at all on the first page...
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SwissA330
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Thu Apr 04, 2002 3:44 am

Qualiflyer Loyalties changed the Name to Mindpearl (quite some time ago already). This company belonged to SAirGroup (don't know where exactly).

Crossair took over mindpearl some time ago, so now it belongs to SWISS (which BTW is officially still called Crossair).

I think it will continue for quite some time, until they find a solution...

Well anyway

Greetings
LXA330
swissair/+/ we care
 
swissgabe
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Thu Apr 04, 2002 4:58 pm

So this means that SWISS owns this Program. I just was curious about because there aren't any "main" logos on www.qualiflyer.net

At the SWISS mailings there is always a "c/o Crossair" added. Why? Isen't SWISS now a company it self? What could be the need for something like this?
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sabenapilot
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Thu Apr 04, 2002 5:16 pm

Strangely enough, if you sign in to the Qualiflyer website via the SN Brussels Airlines site, you do not see the Swiss logo, but the SN logo.

Seems there are different versions for the same site!

check it out via:
http://80.65.128.85/fly_qualiflyer.htm
by clicking on the Qualiflyer option...
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Thu Apr 04, 2002 7:51 pm

That why I haven' t seen a LX logo or what ever.
If you are going into via http://www.qualiflyer.net there is no airline logo, if you are going into via http://www.qualiflyer.com there is a SWISS logo and if you are going via the SNBA site there is a completly different design...
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airways
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RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Thu Apr 04, 2002 8:55 pm

Swissgabe:

SWISS is not a company, it's only the brand name. The company will be called "Swiss Air Lines Ltd.", but to rename it from "Crossair Ltd.", the board needs approaval from the shareholders meeting.

Swiss Air Lines Ltd. is already in the Swiss "Handelsregister", that lists all companies, but only as a small subsidary company. I think they did that to prevent such "smart" guys from grabbing names to sell them again at high profit...

I just got some pallets of freight from LAX today, the stickers and everything was also marked with "Crossair Ltd." and not with "Swiss World Cargo" as it probably will be called once the names are legaly valid.

Hope that helps.

Michael
http://airways.ch
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Ex Qualiflyer Group / Qualiflyer Frequent Flyer

Thu Apr 04, 2002 9:05 pm

Well, I knew about that SWISS is only the brand and thats the name is Swiss Air Lines.

I thought the Crossair shareholders already agreed to rename Crossair into a new name. So Crossair is not finish yet  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Oh, there is to mention that there are several Airlines with new names but a lot of people just write always the old name. I'm thinking about Malaysian Airline System MAS (not Malaysia Airlines), Air Lanka (now SriLankan Airlines) and others of course. Sorry if not related to the topic, thats just what came into my mind ...
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