gsoflyer
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Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:55 am

Well, that is more my question. Anyone know if Frontier is coming to a city in NC?

The last week I have seen a bunch of Frontier commercials on TV in Greensboro and in Raleigh.

They could very well be National Commercial spots, but I've never seen them advertise like this before.
 
Hurricane
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:06 am

Geez, I hope so...
I haven't seen those commercials, but I have been at the beach the past weekend...
Where would they serve? DEN, of course. Is there really a market for RDU/GSO-DEN? I don't know...I think UA was going to start RDU-DEN, but then they pulled out of RDU all together...Maybe this could be the start of expansion at GSO, but then again I don't know...
If you saw it in Raleigh and Greensboro, I would think they were considering RDU more so than GSO. I would wager that many people here in the RDU area don't know that GSO has an airport with anything more than regional service, and that makes me think people in the RDU area wouldn't want to travel to GSO. If Frontier were to expand to North Carolina, I think they would come to RDU, simply because RDU serves more people. It serves of course the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill, but it also draws travlers from southern Virginia, southern and eastern North Carolina, and, until GSO expands more, the Triad area. Unless they are wanting to expand service to GSO, RDU seems like the better choice. They wouldn't be competing against anyone on a RDU-DEN route; or for that matter, a GSO-DEN route...
That's only speculation, though.
Personally, I want to see GSO grow a little more. If they can gain Frontier, possibly B6 and ATA, the growing frenzy will begin...
 
wolfpacker
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:31 am

My understanding is that when Midway flew RDUDEN they did fairly well.

 
gsoflyer
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:32 am

I like your comments on everything I post  Big grin

I personally would liek to see GSO expand, but who knows.

Believe it or not, GSO used to get alot of flyers from Durham before I-40 was completed. Since the completion of I-40, its now easier to get people from the Triad over to RDU.

Remember, the Triad is a larger area than the triangle. And GSO oftens gets flyers from CLT when their prices are too high. Plus the Mountains and Danville and Roanoke.

It'd be nice to see GSO get some airline that CLT and RDU doesn't have. They need to do something to compete.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 11:59 am

Midway did very well on RDU-DEN. There is no reason why Frontier shouldn't.

GSO is questionable.....

I haven't heard anything about them serving a city in North Carolina though.

Latest I heard is they are trying to get a 3rd and 4th slot at DCA to start a 2nd round-trip, and trying to get slots in LGB.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
flashmeister
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:23 pm

The recent Frontier spots are indeed national.
 
Hurricane
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 7:54 pm

I like your comments on everything I post
Us North Carolina people gotta stick together!

When did JI fly RDU-DEN? Maybe I just don't remember it. Are you thinking Steamboat Springs? That was seasonal, wasn't it?...
I see no reason why GSO-DEN wouldn't work if RDU-DEN worked...I couldn't beleive that thatmany connecting passengers flew Midway to DEN, which means it was mainly local traffic. If GSO has a direct flight to DEN, and RDU doesn't , they will draw passengers from RDU.
Does anyone fly CLT-DEN?
 
Hurricane
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:13 pm

Just out of curiosity, when did you see the ads? What stations? What was on? We could just be speculating about nothing, but probably not. I have never seen an ad in NC for an airline that didn't serve NC...
 
gsoflyer
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:20 pm

A good friend was a pilot for Midway. He said the passenger numbers for RDU-DEN were not there. He also said it was one of the routes that never really made money....

The stations.... I don't really know. It seems that one was on one of the national networks (ABC, NBC, Fox, CBS, WB, UPN) and some of the others were on cable channels like maybe ESPN, or something.... I can't remember.

GSO did have a two or three weekly to DEN earlier on UA flights going back to the west coast (after TIMCO work).

I am ready for someone to get into GSO. Pan Am, Frontier, JetBlue, Express I, something.

What I don't understand is why Northwest dropped MEM service totally here. The Numbers were there, why not just add a CRJ rather than killing the service.
 
flashmeister
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:57 pm

I've seen frontier ads on ESPN, CNN, TBS, and I believe MSNBC -- and these weren't ads striped in when the local ads are run, these were national ads.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:40 am

Hurricane,

US Airways flies to CLT-DEN 3 times daily.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Hurricane
Posts: 1356
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:55 am

I'm sure some GSO area passengers fly to DEN, and I'm sure many make the drive to CLT for the direct flight. I'm fairly sure a direct GSO-DEN flight could work...A good friend was a pilot for Midway. He said the passenger numbers for RDU-DEN were not there. He also said it was one of the routes that never really made money Of course, I would have said the same thing about RDU-DEN...
 
Ryefly
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:29 am

I don't think RDU will see any new airlines serving it excluding America West until terminal C can be renovated. I read an article which is now archived so I can't post it, but it said future expansion plans will be restricted because terminal A is full, and terminal C which that airport bought back needs to be renovated before more airlines can use it. The reason being terminal C was set up for the American Airlines hub and the baggage system is designed for the purpose of using the building in this fashion. They will have to make several changes to the building to switch it to handle multiple different airlines. Once the changes can be made, the airport plans on expanding terminal C instead of demolishing terminal A and building a new one. RDU will most likely relieve some traffic from terminal A over to C once all the necessary changes can be made and it will once again open it's arms to further airlines who wants to serve the airport.

Sunworld Airlines, pictured below...

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Photo © Kevin Wachter


has been negotiating with RDU for some time now to be able to serve there. It has been turned down three times currently by the airport due to lack of space.


If Frontier does plan on serving RDU it will have to wait for a while to be able to do so. The could however fly to GSO instead, at least for the time being. I think Frontier would have to do a lot of advertising in the triangle, the triad, and Charlotte for it to be really successful, but I think the flight would work. I would like to see more choices at CLT also, but thanks to RDU and US Airways, it would be very difficult for any domestic airline to grow at CLT.
 
gsoflyer
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:48 am

That is the real problem for NC/SC

CLT - within 1 1/2 hours from GSP, CAE and GSO
GSP - within 1 1/2 hours from CAE, CLT and not to far from ATL
GSO - within 1 hour of CLT and RDU
RDU - within 2 hours of GSO and almost RIC
CAE - within 2 hours of CLT, CHS and GSP

They all compete with each other for everything so all the airlines get so spread out for the budget airlines, that not real airport every real wins. RDU has doen a good job, but really, (and no offense) I don't see the big draw to RDU over anyone else. Can anyone really explain this?
 
a/c dxer
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 12:32 pm

I think the advantage RDU has over GSO is that you have more people in RDU that travel i.e. Three major colleges, and more tech businesses, GSO has some colleges and some major companies. BI would also the lower fares is the biggest reason. Also the last time I was at Gso it seemed like a dump they really need to remodel some of the terminal. no offense just my opinion.

 
gsoflyer
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 12:59 pm

It was a dump  Big grin I think the Co Lite hub took its toll on the airport.

They are remodeling as we speak! The ripped out all of the carpet, and everything from the main terminal and are revamping it, along with parts of the North concourse (in preps for the 5 extra gates they are supposed to be adding this summer).

This on top of the cross-wind runway lengthening to 10,000 ft that should be finished early next year.

And then, who knows when they'll start on the third runway.
 
a/c dxer
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:20 pm

Thats good to here maybe then they can get the people back they just need to advertise that because I live in INT and haven't heard it might get some of the people back. Also do you work at the airport?
 
Ryefly
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:42 pm

There is a big draw at RDU for a couple reasons.

1. CLT is a very busy airport, but being a hub for US Airways, it is the most expensive airport in the country to fly in and out of. People will drive to airports that offers better prices. RDU has brought that to the state. Sadly CLT could really have much better O & D numbers if US Airways reduced the price a little to compete with RDU.

2. RDU is an airport that was once a good sized hub for American Airlines and Midway. What I mean by this is, the facility is large. Currently RDU has around 50 passenger gates, and around 17,500 parking spaces with more being constructed, and parallel runways. As I said before, currently there is a problem with available space until terminal C can be renovated. In the coming years more space will become available. In comparison, GSO offers a total of 19 passenger gates, a 1,910 space parking garage along with several other parking spaces which I am estimating around 3,500 total spots, and currently one main runway and a cross runway. A future parallel runway is about to be constructed. CLT currently has 76 passenger gates, 14,000 parking spaces, and parallel runways and a cross. I included the parking spots to show you just where people are driving too, it's RDU.

3. RDU has has good management, and is in an economically strong region. Midway came in and turned around a hub American thought was unsuccessful. Many other airlines followed soon after as Midway was expanding rapidly filling the demand, especially the low fare airlines such as Metrojet, Delta Express, Southwest, and Air Tran. Because of the increased competition while Midway was really expanding in a recession Midway folded. There were many other factors to their bankruptcy which I won't get into now. However, while this was all going on, RDU was/is quickly changing from a hub style airport to a very diverse and competitive environment.

I think what GSO really needs is an airline or several airlines to follow Fed Ex into there in a big way. 18 passenger gates which are mostly full is not enough to make much of a dent into RDU and CLT. GSO needs to be expanded to around 35 gates with about 8,000 to 10,000 parking spaces to be really competitive with CLT and RDU as an airport. CLT and RDU continue to expand now and for the future. Otherwise GSO will continue to be a regional airport with a very impressive cargo and maintenance facilities. So this leaves GSO in a difficult situation. It would be difficult to expand if it is surrounded by one airport that is changing from a hub to a highly competitive and lucrative market and on the other side a fortress hub for a major airline. Like the film "Field of Dreams" they could go with the theory of "if you build it they will come". However without any commitment's from any airlines such as Continental, Southwest, Jet Blue, American, United. It is to big of a risk to do so. If they do nothing, it will continue to be over looked and many from the Triad will contine to drive to RDU. Fed Ex will help them greatly I believe.
 
gsoflyer
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:47 pm

Do I work at the airport? No.

I am constantly writing articles to the newspapers blasting these people that are against the FedEx hub. So, I sometimes here tidbits of passenger airline news when I ask the Airport Authority questions. Unfortunately, it's hard to keep up with anythign from the PTAA. They don't keep the website very up-to-date and don't keep any real good info there either.

Lots of the FedEx opponets hate the "If you build it, they will come" attitude. They see that without guarantees from major airlines that the public wants (JetBlue, Pan Am, and Southwest mainly) they don't see any reason to "waste" taxpayer money on building a facility that isn't going to be used.

There is also a concern that if FedEx comes, the Tradewinds will move it's cargo/maintanence hub as well.
 
Hurricane
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RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:16 am

I can see why Tradewinds might move because of FedEx, but is Tradewinds that large of an influence at GSO? From what I have heard, it is a pretty small airline. What percentage of overall operations at GSO is by Tradewinds?
 
gsoflyer
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Thu Apr 11, 2002 8:26 am

Well,
Tradewinds has a maintanence facility there, has 2 L1011s for parts there.

They also have their old Charter L1011s here as well. And are supposed to be basing the charter service out of here when they get Delta's old L1011s soon.

If memory serves me correctly, Tradewinds has:
1 L10-11-1F flight to Puerto Rico 6 days a week
1 A300 flight to Puerto Rico 5 days a week.
1 A300 to somewhere in the northeast 2-4 days a week.
and 1 A300 flight to Miami or Texas once every week or so.

To put that in perspective (I remember this stuff from when I used to fly cessnas out all the time):
FedEx has:
3 727s to Indianapolis 5 days a week.
1 A310 to Newark 5 days a week.
1 A310 to Miami 4 days a week.
1 A310 to Norfolk 5 days a week.
1 A310 to Richmond 4 days a week.
1 A310 to Atlanta 4 days a week.
3 A310s to MEM 5 days a week.

It really helps that I can see both runways from my office every day  Big grin
 
SWA TPA
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Frontier To TPA

Thu Apr 11, 2002 8:39 am

Just saw in our paper Frontier is starting 1x daily TPA-DEN service this June.
I believe I can fly.....
 
Hurricane
Posts: 1356
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 11:39 am

RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:41 am

Maybe this is the start of an expansion in the southeast for Frontier...
Is the hub for FedEx in GSO planned, or already there? If it is already there, I would have expected more flights than those for a hub airport.
Back to the original topic: I don't see any major expansion at either GSO or RDU, for many of the reasons that Ryefly gave...GSO won't be that appealing to airlines starting service because of the lack of gates and, possibly, existing service. New service to RDU won't happen due to the already congested Terminal A. They have 10 airlines packed in like sardines into what is only a moderately sized terminal. Terminal A is a wreck. Until they can expand/remodel Terminal A and move some service over to Terminal C, there is no room. America West just announced service from RDU to LAS and PHX and they have to be in Terminal A. A new airline has to be packed into the old, cramped terminal. Why could new airlines not be moved into Terminal C? Is it something to do with the lease (isn't it a former lease?)by AA? Certainly it isn't because the terminal is full... JI serves only 7 cities, and AA serves only 5. I guess AAEagle serves an additional 9 cities, but most of these flights are spread out through the day, aren't they?
 
gsoflyer
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: Frontier Airlines To The N. Carolina?

Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:30 am

No, the FedEx hub is planned. The planning docs used to be on the website, but are now gone. I think GSO is a stop thru for alot of FedEx flights right now, nothing more. All I know of what FedEx has said about the planned hub, is the GSO is where they want to base their trans-atlantic operations.

As for gates, hey, we have 3 that are available.

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