Planeawesome
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New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 1:48 am

There was an article in the Montreal Gazette today stating that Michel LeBlanc's start-up is to be entitled "JetsGo". It's supposed to operate 3 MD-83s and begin in May.
Evidently they're hiring F/A's and pilots between now and May 1.
No mention of routes.

I hope we finally get some choice on YYZ-YUL. There just has to be competition on a route with in excess of 1 million passengers per year.

Go "JetsGo" go. Sounds like an old Winnipeg hockey team slogan.
 
717fan
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 1:51 am

Do they have its own website working and if so, whats the name of it?
 
C-GRYK
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:01 am

Another pretty pathetic name imho... Have they run out of more standardized names already?!?!? Tango/Jazz/Zip and now LeBlanc will use "JetsGo"... whatever, best of luck to him.

Jeremy
Think before you type!
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:03 am

Whew. They can change the name to anything, as long as they don't give up on the McDonnell Douglas apparatuses -83.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
caribb
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:11 am

Have to admit the name sounds lame to me too..
 
dripstick
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:24 am

Yes, good luck to Jethro, I mean Jetsgo.

Any hints yet as to their logo or c/s?
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
captaingomes
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 3:17 am

Hopefully they will succeed and eventually get larger wide body Boeing or Airbus aperatuses to compliment their McDonnell Douglas aperatuses MD-83's.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Noise
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 4:03 am

It just never ends, doesn't it?

Tango, Jazz, Zip and now.......

This is horrible, I feel like throwing up!

Any way, 2 questions, what routes will it fly and where will it have it's hub?
 
flyyul
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 4:04 am

No hubs.... willl probably fly Montreal-Toronto, Toronto-Halifax, Montreal-Halifax, Toronto-Winnipeg, etc.

Mark
 
Noise
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 4:05 am

How do you know?-------filler--------
 
slawko
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 5:32 am

Crew bases in YUL and YYZ, HQ YUL....I think!
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be JetsGo

Sun Apr 14, 2002 5:57 am

why use filler?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:07 am

The shorthaul YYZ-YUL et al routes are the death-knell for carriers.

Maybe Royal II should focus on charters.

With the McDonnell Douglas apparatuses -83 of course. The -83 has higher range and weights and is best suited or 2-3 hour flights. If they plan on YYZ-YUL, they could get some cheaper and lighter -81's.

Here a trivia Q: which US airline flew YYZ-YUL in the early 90's? (no local traffic of course). Winner gets......a future favour or something.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Noise
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:22 am

American?-------filler-------
 
dripstick
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:24 am

To answer your question...POUTINE AIRWAYS from New Orleans.

What's another word for thesaurus?
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:27 am

filler?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:28 am

Ca-ching! Noise is right! AA flew ORD-YYZ-YUL-ORD briefly around 92 or so.

Stop saying filler.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
slawko
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:47 am

They may likely use the small MD's later on if the company does well..but I think that it would cost way too much to certifiy those airplanes for a low cost startup...they must be tight on cash, they are even asking pilots for money!
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Planeawesome
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 10:33 am

Braniff flew Dallas-Toronto-Montreal return for a brief time in the eighties.
 
AWspicious
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 10:55 am

JetsGo??? Sounds like they're making fun of somebody's accent. Anyone ever watched "That 70s Show" ?
Does some one, or, some group actually get paid to think up this crrrrrrap?! Well, i suppose it could have been worse - He could have called it Waltz, or Buzz  Laugh out loud

aw
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
slawko
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 11:00 am

It sounds as though ML came up with the name in french first, and the put it through one of those on line translation programs to get the english version...The two words just dont go together well in that order....Maybe AIr Orange can come up with something imaginative to make up for the lack of a good name....  Smile
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
slawko
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 11:43 am

What would be so bad about using this again??


http://members.rogers.com/torontoaviation/qn2.jpg
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Noise
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 11:45 am

ALRIGHT! So Neil, what's my prize?

The reason I use filler is because there is a rule now that you can't post short replies like "American?".
 
fallingeese
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 12:11 pm

Canadians have got to be more creative than that. Come on, what's next Raegae, or Tapp> JetsGo....come on whats the logo going to be like?
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
flyyul
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 12:22 pm

How could YYZ-YUL be a death knell. If anything, its murder than AC has the route all too itself. Do you know of any other route of 1,000,000 pax and more that has NO COMPETITION? I certainly know of absolutely none!

Canada 3000 had 8 flights daily on the route, and did very well. There is no doubt in my mind that 3 or 4 flights a day with MD83 will be very succesful for Royal. If westjet starts YHU-YHM, they will suceed also, because its such a big route.. and its relatively inexpensive to fly, yet so expensive to get a ticket!

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 9:17 pm

C3 did well on YYZ-YUL? Really? How do you know? That route specific info is proprietary. My understanding is that C3 lost bundles on all former CJ routes.

Anyway, let's see......Nordair, C3, City Express, CP, Nationair, Quebecair....have all tried YYZ-YUL and exited for one reason or another. The flight is short and with ATC/ground delays at YYZ/YUL, it's a relatively poor utilization of aircraft. WJ has repeated stated they are not interested in YYZ-YUL in part because of slot/ATC issues at YYZ.

I didn't know that BN extended their DFW-YYZ service to YUL.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Cap'n Dan
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 11:20 pm

The problem with new carriers entering the YYZ-YUL market is that they just can't compete with AC's frequencies. That route is almost completely business travel, and if one airline offers 20 flights a day, another offers 4, and your company is picking up the tab, which one are you gonna pick?
 
Noise
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Sun Apr 14, 2002 11:39 pm

Well, Michel said this is supposed to be an EASTERN discount airline, so weather you like it or not, you're probably going to see YYZ-YUL, or YUL-YHZ. For once I'd like to see a YUL-YYT and YUL-YWG flight, places where we certainly lack flights to.
 
flyyul
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:04 am

I cant tell you for sure Neil, but full flights usually mean something, especially on a short hop like that.

WJ never said it wasnt interested in YUL-YYZ..

when CP was up and running, they had claimed in several annual reports that their Eastern Shuttle claimed 33% of domestic revenues. So I assume it must be profitable.

With a market of over 1.35 million pax a year on the route, do you know of any route pattern that does not feature COMPETITION? Find me on please Big grin

Have a good day,
Mark
 
slawko
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:13 am

Full flights dont mean a thing, C3's average break even point was an 85% full A320... No one has ever been able to make any good money on the "rapidair" corridor, becuase as was said before no one was able to provide AC' frequency, or their services...ROYAL came close when they had the aeroplan deal, and soo they could offer business travellers a fairly good service, for a good price, andthey also had aeroplan...unless ML is able to do something like that I dont give them much chance...But good luck to them anyway...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
yyzcabincrew
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:19 am

FlyYul is correct that QN/C3 was doing very well in the triangle run....it was said that the B737 were bringing in close to a mil every week or was it month....i cant remember now.

YYZ717 you can add Austoria/Vistajet to your list of airlines that failed with the triangle.
 
flyyul
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 1:02 am

The average load on YUL-YYZ with 2T was about that, or even more..
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 1:35 am

WJ is not interested in YYZ-YUL.

Thanks YYZCC....I forgot about Astoria/Vistajet.

Anyone with less than hourly flights on YYZ-YUL, will have a hard time signing up corporate accounts which represent a big component of the YYZ-YUL revenue. To offer 5 daily flights to start on YYZ-YUL will only attract students, grannies, and a small number of bargain business travellers. Yield will not be high.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 1:40 am

I disagree with that......

 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 1:44 am

ok.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Noise
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 2:55 am

Ok, I see what you guys are getting at, but why YUL-YYZ? I'm sure JetGo will fly other routes like YHZ and YYT, or YOW.

What do you think the other routes will be, besides the obvious YUL-YYZ(every airline has tried this route, JetGo will do the same thing)?
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 3:01 am

Well, it sounds like JetsGo will be emulating the CJ network, with flights betw YYZ/YUL/YOW/YHZ and perhaps YYT.

I think the MD-83 is rather large for this market, esp for a startup.

However, Michel The White was success with Royal I, so perhaps he stands a chance. I can't help but think though that a charter focus would be better.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Planeawesome
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:15 am

The charter gap that was left by Canada 3000's collapse has to a large degree been filled (Skyservice,Air Columbus,JMC and a couple of other possibilities). Any additional slack could be picked-up by Air Transat on short notice.

An eastern discount carrier sounds like the best shot Royal II has. Who's profitable these days ? Westjet,Jetblue,Ryanair,Southwest......None of them has any real presence east of the Ontario border. Even Ontario has limited discount service.
Tango is just a different flavour of a bloated Air Canada.

If JetsGo can scoop up a few cheap MD-80's sitting in the desert and hire some hard working (hungry?) staff, what better time to set up a true low cost structure than now. It can work. I suspect the real risk is waiting too long to get going. These bargains won't be around forever.
If JetsGo can also attract serious equity investment (e.g. WJ) as opposed to financing by debt (e.g. AC) I think they can kick ass.
 
captaingomes
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:24 am

Planeawesome, I do agree with you totally. But I also think that on the weekends, it would be wise to do some charters to Cuba, Mexico, or whatever. I'm sure they could utilize their aircraft on routes like that, where they get their charter income, and where loads on domestic routes are much smaller. It would increase utilization, and decrease risk, and they are broadening their business in a usefull way.

Of course, I could be way off on this!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:28 am

I don't disagree with you Planeawesome.

Perhaps the key will be adequate financing/capitalization.

WJ was very well capitalized before it even flew....this enabled it to purchase its early 732's and avoid costly lease payments until they could generate positive cash flow. Of course, they were able to generate positive cash flow very quickly.

The biggest dilemma facing startups is not so much profitability in the first 24 months, but cash flow. Cash flow is greatly aided by start up capital.

The problem though: finding start up capital is damn difficult. There are is only so much investment-able cash around....and new airlines do not have a good track record.

Incidently, one of the biggest early investors in WJ was the Ontario Sec School Teachers Pension Plan. Talk about risky investment! Of course it paid off.

Regards
Neil






I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Noise
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:41 am

Any one worried that the JetsGo can fall victim to WJ's and Tango fast expansion in the east? Do they stand a chance against AC on major routes? If they were based in Montreal, I doubt that would be a problem for WJ isn't present here and Montrealers hate AC's guts any way, but if they follow CJ's and WJ's point-to-point method, they can very well fall victim to too much competition.

But of course, I could be wrong.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:51 am

You're right Noise, a new airline is a risky venture.

The key is effective capitalization. Hopefully Michel Leblanc is lining this up.

I'm surprized that YUL'ers would hate AC. The YUL economy benefits greatly from the AC Act which requires the HQ to be in YUL. I presumed all YUL'ers were fond of AC. When CP was around, they publicly acknowledged their poor market share in Quebec due in part to Quebec public interpretation of CP as an 'English airline'.......which meant that Quebec was very loyal to AC.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:35 am

That's not entirely correct Neil.

Let me tell you, its not a game of politics here. Its who offers the best route, and the best fare. Thats all that people care about, and that is why CP did squat in Montreal. They had nothing here.

All 20% of nationalists in the Montreal area (very few!) will put their politics ideals outside of the airport. If so, then why would people fly Air Canada to Paris or Fort Lauderdale, Quebecker haven?

Mark
 
Noise
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:35 am

I guess CP was considered an "english airline"(although I don't see why, and I don't see how english is bad), but it is missed very much now. We just hate AC's monopoly and their high fares. Ok maybe we don't hate AC, but we tend to dislike them.

Chris
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:13 am

Ya, perhaps CP did no route/market devt in Quebec.

Actually, AC had a hard time gaining market share in Western Canada since that was the home turf of CP.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
lymanm
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:13 am

Uh, oh, this seems to be getting back towards the english-french debate...

I'm wondering however, is the MD-83 an appropriate startup aircraft? I don't personally have an answer, so does anyone have an idea about operating costs, maintenance, etc etc? Additionally, it will be more difficult to find Canadian pilots with MD-83 time, thus increasing training costs...

buhh bye
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:42 am

The MD-83 is also not certified in Canada (although Slawko said it was, maybe I'm wrong). So Royal may need to pay for cert. So the MD-83 is a bit of a surprize as there has never been an MD-80 operator in Canada.

The MD-83 would have the same capacity as the A320 but much lower leasing costs, marginally higher operating costs. Pilot procurement might be a problem as you said.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 11:00 am

... the MD80 family is quite efficient. It is the backbone of DL and AA's fleet.

I think in terms of unit costs, its gotta be better than the gas guzzing B737-200 roller coaster..

Mark
 
slawko
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:10 pm

Getting pilots is not at issue, as all of the pilots are former ROYAL 1 pilots...and they are starting their training which would be the case even if they had prior MD experiance...and they are all paying for their own training....

As to certification, there was a link on the AE forum to the tranport canada website that showed the airplane was certified...and other costs, I am told, Boeing is helping out with...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Royal To Be "JetsGo"?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 12:39 pm

Actually Mark, unit costs on the MD-80 can be cheaper than the 732 (even with current fuel prices) if loads are high and lease costs are low. 732 mx costs would be higher. But there's always a risk with a larger startup aircraft type especially for sked service. The key will be to fill all those MD-80 seats (and get adequate capital to start the airline).

IMHO, the best startup aircraft is late model 732's or DC-9-30's, which date from the early 80's.....same age as the oldest MD-80's. So many now-successful airlines began service fairly recently with either of these types: Vanguard, Westjet, Ryanair, Air Tran (kinda). The youngest 732's (in prod until 1985) would have reasonable mx costs.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.