Turin_airport
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What About Air France Business Class?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:05 pm

Hi guys. I need your help for a couple of informations. I booked a flight from Paris to Atlanta on Air France B777-200, Business class: have you ever experienced Air France Business class? What do you think about? What about seats, PTVs, meals, etc.?
Thank you in advance!

T_a
 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:24 pm

Very bad, they have just been down graded to 3 stars in the ATC Travel Awards.

http://www.alasta.nl/index1.html

Go to the ranking page and you will see.

If i was you I would fly American Airlines, not Delta.

Meals where terrible, seats normal and cabin crew well they don't speak a lot of English and my France is not that good

 
Turin_airport
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:51 pm

Thank you Skippy777. Not so encouraging, indeed! I have no choice: my company choosen for me. I tell you something more: I'm going from Turin to Orlando, and the Atlanta-Orlando leg will be on a Delta MD11...

Is there anybody else that can tell me his experience with Air France business class?

Ciao.

T_a
 
keesje
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:20 pm

IMO they know how make a (relative) good meal, crew is a little un-friendly, un-caring & beautifull, leg room & recline not so impressive compared to others...

I think they renewed the video system. Nice headsets.


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But it is not so bad overall,
Way better then economy anyway

have fun !!

ATC Travel Awards is IMO not very objective & professional. One flight & some prejustifications and they know it all ....

Tell us what you thought after the flight ..

keesje
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:03 pm

T_a

I travelled CDG-SFO in January on AF and was very pleasantly surprised at the service.

I particularly enjoyed the seats and excellent catering in J.

I'm with Keesje; those ATC awards leave something to be desired; they have an unhealthy enthusiasm for particular carriers based on the experience of one flight. You could be forgiven for thinking they are sponsored by Richard Branson himself.

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
zrs70
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Mon Apr 15, 2002 11:34 pm

If your ticket is full fare, you should be able to easily take it to another carrier for travel. I'd take the ticket to your carrier of choice and fly them.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
F+ Rouge
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:15 am

Hi Turin_airport,

As far as long haul routes are concerned I travelled on AF l'Espace Affaires on CDG-LAX-PPT-LAX-CDG and on CDG-DKR-CDG. Just one statement: You or, to be more exact, your company made the right choice. Especially restauration was excellent, you eat and drink like in a four star restaurant (four-course menu plus breakfast on each leg of the CDG-LAX-PPT route; fine French wines, champagne). If you like French cuisine you will love it!

Service was excellent and there was also a self-service beverage bar. Cabin crew were very friendly and I assure you that they do speak English.

Compared to other C Classes, onboard entertainment, seats and seat pitch (approx 48'') are average. It is true that Delta would offer more seat pitch in C due to the fact that they do not have a J class.

After all a very positive, unforgettable experience.

Enjoy your flight, Turin_airport and form your own opinion about AF!

Best regards,

F+ Rouge
 
teva
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:21 am

Recently, I have flown quite a lot with AF from CDG
Nov last year, to Mumbai and return, with A340, in business.
This year, Madrid and Moscow in economy.
All those flights have been very nice, with good catering, good choice of movies, and very nice crew.
About the cabin layout, I never had a chance to try their 777. But I think you will have enough space.
And do not worry about language. It is not because they will maybe speak French first that they do not speak English. Especially on a flight to the States and in Business !!!!
You are on a French airline, then all the announcement will be in French first. But everything will be repeated in English....
Yes, AF has been quite bad in the early 90s. But today, it is a really good airline. And they really care about their customers ideas and opinions: On each flight, they randomly select 2 or 3 pax in business, 2 or 3 in economy, and give them a survey to give all their feedback about the flight.
About the ATC ranking, forget it. I don't know how they do it, but when you see that LH catering is much better than SR, there is something wrong....
Nana...
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
keesje
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:01 am

Air France should be planning improvements in sleeping comfort IMO. BA, Delta, AA and KLM have better products.

IMO crew is also a bit hindered by French "pride" (lets call it like that). Non French passengers don't like that. I think AF tries to solve it by e.g. hiring non French FA's.

They (and the French government) really invested in making it a better, proud carrier.

I hope it is paying-off.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:09 am

Keesje, The ATC ( Alasta Travel Consultancy )Awards are very objective and professional.

They fly with zeven auditors around the world.

Also there soon will be an Australian department as well.

So don't ever say that Alasta is not objective.
You should be proud for this Dutch and soon also Australian Company.

 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:28 am

Aren't you lot (Alasta) being sued at the moment?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
eugdog
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:37 am

I have taken one flight on AF CDG-IAH. Althought seat pitch was a bit cramped - every thing was the BEST of any transatlantic airline.

Excellent food with fresh french bread
very good multi-lingaul video entertainment PVR
beautiful flight attendants - in a different league to their English/American counterparts.

If I could I would go on Air France all the time!!!
 
F+ Rouge
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:45 am

Skippy 777,

Awards are assigned by votes and surveys and thus - per definitionem - cannot be objective.

Regards,

F+ Rouge


 
milemaster
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:48 am

Ummm.. America West got a 4-Star???

I would certainly take AF's 3 star with a grain of salt.
 
jaysit
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:52 am

I'm sorry but I think that the Alasta ratings are a joke !
And the website isn't much either.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
keesje
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:53 am

Skippy, who's selecting / paying the tickets for those auditors ? Who checks their objectivity ?

Who defines what's quality ? A good price/ connection / Cappucino / FA / lounge /punctuality ?

How many flights by how many people with an airline/ class before a funded judgement is made ?

Why is AF three star when I (and Eugdog & Teva & F+ Rouge & Shamu) think it's pretty good ?

keesje
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:06 am

Alasta is not being sued Singapore Air. Skytrax tried but didn't have a change to win. After these problems they adjusted there legal rights. Everything is TM now they say. We were not allowed to call our Ranking Star Ranking, so it is the ATC Star Ranking for us and Star Ranking for Skytrax. Keesje, if Skytrax is that nervous about us we most do something right. We started of with 3 auditors and have 7 auditors currently working for us. The tickets are being paid by us. We work for large companies as well and they pay for our work. We are very objective and have hard discussions with airlines about rankings. Some airlines offer us money for a better position so they take us seriously. We have standards for the quality. We are making more than 1 flight with an Airline, f.e. British Airways has been flown more than 6 times, Lufthansa 4, Lauda 7, KLM 5, Singapore 3 etc etc. Soon you will have the change to vote for the best Airlines yourself. That ranking will also be involved in our survey. The more people the better it will be come.

 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:10 am

PS we don't accept any money from Airlines, so if they offer us money, they are not sure about their Quality.

They should get a lower ranking as we think, but that is also not the way to work because than you would not be open for a perfect objectivity. So we also don't downgrade them if they would offer us money.

It is better for them not to take such a action
 
Spitfire
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:16 am

Very nice to rank airlines which have hundreds of flight a week ( if not a day) with 7 to 3 flights !!!!! That's very objective indeed.
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Spitfire
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:42 am

I check your "surveys". In 2000, neither Sabena nor Swisair are in the 17 th "first...best of..." Then, suddenly, in 2001 they jumped around the 7 or 8 place...and they bankrupted !!!! Quite strange.
Any explanation ?
And I see also Air France rank 3 stars as well as Ryanair, Easyjet, Go and some others....I think you can't expect the same "service" on those airlines ... Maybe it's a very "huge mathematical formula", adding a lot of things devided by the price, square some other influences and then taking the Neperien logarithm to get finaly your star result...  Nuts
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 3:36 am

In that time we have flown with 17 airlines Spitfire, that was our start. The other year we had different airlines. I totally agree that we need lots of more flights or reports to be even more objective. The best is a report for every flight, but that is too expensive.That is why we are going to start the voting system as well. We still do the surveys, together with the views of our voters or teh people wo send in reports, we soon should be better dan our colleges. We had a very bad Flight last Month with Air France so that is why they are down graded to 3 stars. The can go up if we have a better flight with Air France within 3 months. I also agree that it is difficult to compare a Long Haul Air France flight with f.e. the flight with Virgin Blue (4 Stars, the highest position possible for a low budget airline ) This position should stimulate Air France to become better. Some people will say Bulls..t about the ATC Awards others will say yeh finally a 4 star position for SQ, while Skytrax says, SQ are not the best, but give them a 5 star ranking. A little straings for me !!!!! We try to make the best of it and we are working hard for it. So I hope that all the other people can be objective as well and not if you f.e. like CX says "not a good ranking so it is a bad company". If we would place CX on a 5 star ATC ranking the people from SQ will say "No way" So everybody has his favorite airline but that should not be the best Airline of the world. I like Garuda a lot, especcially there Business Class " The old first Class seats ", but they have a 3 star ranking in our system. Should I say, no I give them a 4 star ranking because I like them. The loss points on other segments of our survey. I believe they belong on a 3,5 star ranking, but we don't have them so it's 3 for now.

I hoped I explained it wright for all the other people here without advertising the site.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:30 am

I'm sorry Skippy, but when I asked our PR department today, they had never even heard of your little web site, and your awards were not even on their list of "things to look out for."

I think people on here will judge the objectivity and validity of your awards by the website on which they appear and on the questionable basis on which they are based.

I think you've had enough free publicity on here now, so I'll shut up  Smile

Regards

Shamu

So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:28 pm

Blueshamu, I am not sure if you work for AF, but if you do so, please mail me and I will give you our contact person within AF PR department.

They sure know us.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 8:11 pm

No, I don't fly for AF Skippy.


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So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
ryanb741
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 8:37 pm

ROFL - Alasta awarded American Airlines 5 stars!!!

I think Turin_airport shouldn't worry about the 3 stars for Air France then!!!
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
ryanb741
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 8:44 pm

Furthermore, Myanmar Airways with 4 stars is supposedly a better airline than Air France with 3 stars?


ROFL!!! I have flown Myanmar Airways on 3 occasions and every time the best bit of the trip was getting off the plane! It was HORRIBLE!

Also, Lauda Air is a 5 star airline, despite the fact it flies to like 8 destinations at infrequent intervals. Meanwhile, the likes of SQ and BA with their impressive schedule and destinations list get 4 stars!!! And please don't tell me that Lauda's service, food and entertainment is better than SQ and BA, because otherwise it's straight to the funny farm for you Big grin

I can't wait to see next years list. I fully expect PIA to be at the top  Big grin
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 8:56 pm

List is changing every time and yes the food is the best on Lauda Air with their Chef and the Do&Co Catering.

I have got the pictures and it tasted the best.
if you want the pictures to see how they serve the food please mail me and I will send them to you.

After that you will say, yes you are wright, it sure looks better than SQ and BA.

Bye the way Myanmar also has 4 stars with our colleges, so they agree with me as well.


 
ryanb741
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:15 pm

I know what Lauda looks like - I flew them VIE-BKK on a 772 last year.

They were quite good, but IMHO SQ and BA were better.


Myanmar Airlines sucks though.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
RickB
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:02 pm

Surely measuring an airline on food is very subjective - I dislike seafood so automatically airlines such as SK who tend to serve it a lot would get a terrible mark from me for food - whereas my wife who likes seafood would give them a great rating !!

Additionally some of the best inflight food I have had was onboard a BMI flight in J class MAN > ORD - I loved it - sausage butties, cornish pasties and a curry. Yet I know hundreds of people who would find that kind of food disgusting !!

Seats are made that some people find perfect, others find hateful - I happen to love the old BA cradle seats in J - but I know a few people who hate them.

Virtually everything you mark an airline on is subjective and with such a low number of samples - it really cant be considered accurate.
 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:48 am

I have uploaded some pictures in our ATC survey Gallery.

Just see how the food is being served with Lauda, American Airlines and Austrian Airlines. KLM will follow shortly as I am off for a flight tomorrow.

Anybody taking pictures of flight KL601 from Amsterdam to Lax ?

Till next week or so
 
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skippy777
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:49 am

I know I still have to rename them.
They are all over the index.
 
Turin_airport
Topic Author
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:34 am

Ok, thanks to you all for the informations. Back from my trip I'll tell you my impressions (I hope in interesting movies, pretty F/A, and decent food...)!

See you.

T_a
 
Greg
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RE: What About Air France Business Class?

Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:16 am

I've flown L'espace on thier 340 and 777 in the last year. I found the service to be quite good from the more experienced flight attendants. The younger ones were very efficient, if not a trifle cold.

It's still the best wine cellar in the sky.

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