Sabena 690
Topic Author
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Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Wed Apr 17, 2002 12:46 am

Hey,

Today I spoke with my teacher of chemistry and biology, and his brother-in-law, an ex-Sabena A330 pilot, will operate next week one of the first flights of Birdy Airlines.

He will fly as a passenger next week to Dakar, and come back as a pilot.

He said that at the moment, the A330 simulator works 24h/24h. to train the pilots as good as possible.

I have some additional questions about Birdy Airlines:

1) When will their three aircrafts arrive in Brussels?

2) Which are the regs of these aircrafts?

3) I read here somewhere some weeks ago that they will have a delay to get their AOC because 'Het Bestuur Der Luchtvaart' was too busy with the VG-Airlines case. Will they have their AOC next week? If not, when will they probably get it?

Finally, I want to wish all the pilots of Birdy Airlines all the luck with the new company, and I hope that they will have many happy flights  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Best regards,
Sabena 690
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:23 pm

Hey all,

I read today an interesting article in 'De Financieel Economische Tijd'.

They gave some interesting remarks:

1) Already 32000 tickets have been sold for the African flights
2) SNBA hopes to be for the first time break-even in May
3) Next week, the first flights will depart. They hope to get their AOC in time. I thought that the first flight will be one to Conakry
4) Birdy broke a world record: the company was founded-operational in just 5 weeks (if they get their AOC intime!!!)
5) I found this very important: if the African flights are very profitable, SNBA will start to fly to the African routes than next year!! And not Birdy anymore. Can someone give more information on this?

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
luchtzak
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:44 pm

@ Sabena690

First flight will be to Kinshasa, all the Press is invited on that flight.

Thrust me I'm an insider!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

best regards
luchtzak
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:46 pm

Hey Luchtzak,

I must say that I expected that the first flight would be to Kinshasa (it is very symbolic), but in the newspaper, I read that the first flights were to Conakry,... They didn't mention Kinshasa.

I would love to be a journalist next week!! Big grin

Best regards,
Sabena 690
 
A320-addict
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:24 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:53 pm

Yep indeed, the first flight is next week to Kinshasa, very simbolic indeed.

I am sure pressclub will post us a nice trip-report.

It might get exciting at Brussels the coming months.
Sobelair has been taken over by Aldo Vastapan, and they are aiming for the African market as well....

I think everybody wants a piece of the cake .....

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Looking foreward to see them all flying
 
luchtzak
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:11 am

First flight of SN Brussels Airlines to Africa will be the 26th of April, to Nairobi !!

Guess the 'Financieel Economische Tijd' and myself misunderstood something!

best regards
luchtzak
 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:04 am

That's really fast to have their first flight. And 32.000 tickets sold, that is a lot ! Way to go SNBA  Big thumbs up

Regards, SN-A330

P.S. a message for A320-Addict : could you mail me your email address ? Please send it to SN-A330@excite.com
I would rather be flying...
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:02 am

The yields are thos most important thing though.
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
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RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:24 am

Hey Donder10,

Sabena always had a very high yield on the African problems, so I think that Birdy makes a chance.

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:34 am

Could it be that times are finally changing???????

Birdy in the air, VG almost and today and yesterday two joboffers for A pilots as well as B737!!!!!

What is happening?
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
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RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:40 am

Hey Airbuspilot,

From which compan(y)(ies) did these B737 and Airbus joboffers come?

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
Established02
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:30 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:00 am

> Sabena always had a very high yield on the African problems

Sabena 690, did SN ever publish their yields? Perhaps they did in a professional magazine like Air Transport World,...

> yesterday two joboffers for A pilots as well as B737

Airbuspilot, did those job offers come from VEX or from SLR?

> if the African flights are very profitable,
> SNBA will start to fly to the African routes next year!!
> And not Birdy anymore.

Yes, if true, that would be quite remarkable.

From today's article in the FET one could understand that the contract between SNBA and Birdy is valid for only 1 year, or that SNBA has at least an option to finish the contract after one year.

What would happen to Birdy if SNBA, their sole customer for now, would not renew the contract after this one year? They would be left behind with 3 wide-body aircraft and 50 pilots, with hardly any other Belgian carrier to turn to for new contracts! I hope Mr Hasson & Gutelman have a back-up plan in case the cooperation with SNBA would come to a halt.

How long is Birdy's leasing contract for their A330's? 1 year?
How long is Birdy's contract with their 50 pilots? 1 year?

 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:44 am

I have the same questions, let come the answer guys Big grin

About the yield, this is published and confirmed by several people in the forum here.

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Thu Apr 18, 2002 7:09 am

No, check out the following links:

www.iacglobal.com
www.mach2000.fr
www.gulfairco.com

At least something is moving!
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
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RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 1:18 am

I read here somewhere some weeks ago that they will have a delay to get their AOC because 'Het Bestuur Der Luchtvaart' was too busy with the VG-Airlines case. Will they have their AOC next week? If not, when will they probably get it?

if the African flights are very profitable, SNBA will start to fly to the African routes than next year!! And not Birdy anymore

Who knows more??

Regards and thank you,
Sabena 690
 
Established02
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:30 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 2:13 am

I read in Le Soir today that CEO Rob Kuijpers confirmed that there is still no AOC, however there were no comments as to a possible delay in getting it. The article paid more attention to the fact that the first flights to Kinshasa and other cities were already fully booked.

I saw in the Brussels Metro that Royal Air Maroc is advertising for flights to Dakar, Libreville, Banjul and various other West African cities via Casablanca. The fare Brussels-Dakar via Casablanca was 599 EUR, I believe.

Established02
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 2:33 am

Hey Established02,

I hope that people will choose Birdy Airlines for those flights, and not AT.

Although, €599 is not expensive.

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
ConvairMan
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 3:10 pm

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 3:03 am

Possibly the most stupid airline name that I have ever heard! This is what happens when people that can't speak English properly try to think up a clever English name......  Smile
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 3:11 am

@Convairman:

Do not forget that this name will not be on the aircrafts, except a small reference in front of the aircraft.
The aircrafts will be in full SNBA colours, so 'Birdy Airlines' is just a name for the administration.

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 3:45 am

>Possibly the most stupid airline name that I have ever > >heard!

Maybe this book was the inspiration?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679734120/qid=1019241840/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_67_2/104-1882080-0457547

It's a good book, btw.

Regards,
NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
Established02
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:30 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 3:11 pm

> Possibly the most stupid airline name that I have ever heard!
> This is what happens when people that can't speak English properly
> try to think up a clever English name......

Convairman, perhaps you -as a native English speaker- could elucidate a bit why this name would have been clumsy chosen.

To my knowledge, the media in Belgium never reported about the motivation behind choosing the name "Birdy".

Citybird was a nice name actually. What happened to the brand "Citybird"? Was it up for sale or is it unthinkable to use it again (cfr. Pan Am)?

Established02
 
Guest

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:17 pm

Actually, SN's African yields were always pretty bad - they only looked good on paper. The reason for this is that fares sold in unconvertable local currency were generally very much higher than those sold in hard currency - and they were booked to Sabena at the official, rather than the real or black-market exchange rates.

The local currency was generally used to pay for expenses in those countries. For example, even though they did not fly there for a number of years, SN maintained a large presence in Burundi.

Sabena was the cheapest way to travel from South Africa to Europe - in any class. They common-rated all their European destinations, so it was the same fare to fly to any European city as it was to fly to Brussels.

Passengers were prepared to put up with Sabena's awful service for one reason and one reason only - they were the cheapest way to fly. The same reason that people flew Tower Air!

High yields? Don't make me laugh!!
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:45 pm

Passengers were prepared to put up with Sabena's awful service for one reason and one reason only - they were the cheapest way to fly. The same reason that people flew Tower Air!

Comme on, what for rubbish is this. SAS23, I think that Ceilidh was a very good friend of you, or are you Ceilidh??? I am not the first one and certainly not the last one that will write this.
I am so fed up with answers like this, have you ever flown with Sabena?? Sabena had a great service, great aircrafts,... Like already mentioned here before: if you want to eat, go to a restaurant and do not buy a ticket to fly to somewhere. Sabena's service was very good, and all who denies this are people who just don't like Belgian aviation (Ceilidh-?Sas23?  Wink/being sarcastic), or people who are never happy with what they get.

I don't put time anymore in this, the topic was about Birdy Airlines and not about the service of Sabena!!!

Sabena 690
 
luchtzak
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 5:20 pm

Hey Sabena690,

give SAS23 a break, he keeps on messing with this forum putting stupid and irrelevant messages.



greetings
 
sab12
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:40 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 6:11 pm

sas23 or ceilidh,

Come with something new and don't start you old b'shit again, we know how you feel about Belgians and I know it is not going to change

 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:24 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 6:28 pm

SAS23

Passengers were prepared to put up with Sabena's awful service for one reason and one reason only - they were the cheapest way to fly.

Well I flew to JNB with SN in all class of services (Y/C/F) and I really don't see how you can tell that service was awful. I remember that the service was pretty good, same thing on the many CVG and NRT flights I flew with them over the years.


Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Guest

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 6:52 pm

I flew with SN many, many times. The catering was good (ex BRU anyway), but the customer service stank - and that's something that many people have commented on.

Let's face it - if SN had provided a premium, quality service then they would have charged premium, quality fares. They didn't. People flew on them because they got from A to B cheaply ... as I said earlier, the same reason they few Tower Air.
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 7:02 pm

Let's face it - if SN had provided a premium, quality service then they would have charged premium, quality fares. They didn't. People flew on them because they got from A to B cheaply ... as I said earlier, the same reason they few Tower Air.

Back to topic SAS23-Ceilidh!!! It goes about Birdy Airlines!!

If you want to complaint about Sabena's service (I just don't know why, but there will always exist difficult people for who very good is not good enough), do it somewhere else than, but not on a forum like this.

And now, back to topic. It seems that you can't answer the questions asked in this topic, so please don't reply here anymore.

Sabena 690
 
luchtzak
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 7:59 pm

As I just said, comments from sas23 don't make sence!!

regards
 
Guest

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 10:11 pm

Sabena 690 - I was answering your question!! Good grief!!
 
swake
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 4:47 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 11:25 pm

about the name Birdy. I'm not a nessie and yes, it sounds stupid. Was this name chosen by people that can't speak English properly? (shouldn't this be: people who can't speak...)
well just maybe they got advise from an american pr agency. Who knows...

It only takes one Ceilidh passing the Sabenakennel to get the dogs barking. hehe...
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sat Apr 20, 2002 11:47 pm

Hey Swake,

The name of the companie is not important here!! It is just for the administration!! Everything will go via SNBA. The aircrafts will be painted in the colours of SNBA,...

The name is not important!!

Regards,
Sabena 690

PS: SAS23-Ceilidh: Is providing b*ll ch*t about Sabena-Tower Air giving an answer?? You said there something about the yield of the African flights. Do not forget that the African destinations were the best destinations for Sabena. And now you are telling here that the yield was low there?? Sounds strange... Do you think you know an answer at my other question? If yes, try to write it down here. If not, do not write your stupid remarks of Tower Air here.
 
Guest

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:03 am

Sabena 690 - You obviously know nothing about airline economics, so I'll make it simple for you. Just because an aircraft is flying full does not necessarily mean that it is making money.

If you sell a €10 for €11 then you will make money; but you won't sell huge numbers. If you sell it for €9, then you will lose money, but you'll sell lots of €10 notes because people will recognise they are getting a bargain - and the more you sell, the more money you will lose. That was the way that Sabena worked.

Understand now?
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:31 am

SAS23, this was not my question. I know very good what 'high yield' means. And I know how the system works, also without your example.

My question was about this:

If the African flights are very profitable, SNBA will start to fly to the African routes than next year!! And not Birdy anymore

And please, do not rate a topic with one star if someone says something against you!!!

Sabena 690



 
luchtzak
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:05 am

For the last time : SAS23 comments don't make sense in this topic !  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 4:56 am

Not only do you have a really bad memory for questions you asked, but your command of English is pretty awful as well.

"If the African flights are very profitable, SNBA will start to fly to the African routes than next year!! And not Birdy anymore" is a statement - not a question!!

As for the African routes being profitable - it is very probable that they will not be.
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:06 am

SAS23,

Question was if this is true!! Is SNBA going to take over the African destinations if they are rendable!!

Thanks for destroying this whole thread SAS23.
It began as an informative topic with interesting questions of several people, now this is destroyed in one day, just because of you!! I am not going to say what I think of you here, I don't want to become deleted  Angry

Sabena 690
 
Spitfire
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:16 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 7:55 am

Hi Ceilidh,
Again in trouble with Belgian people? And NOW they are NOT your OLD Sabena friends....I will not add anything more.  Innocent  Innocent  Innocent  Wink/being sarcastic
Very kind regards.
Spitfire.
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Guest

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 4:43 pm

Hi Spitfire - Ah well, c'est la vie! Actually, I'm spending a great deal of time in Belgium at the moment - mainly in Antwerpen and of course Oostende - and I can say that the food and the beer are, as always, absolutely superb!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

I can only assume that SNBA are trying to minimse their start-up costs and liabilities by subcontracting the long haul services to Birdy - I would stronly suspect that the costs of that operation are being underwritten by SNBA as I am sure Slz396 could doubtless confirm.

Of course, the operation hinges on Birdy getting their AOC and Operating Licence, both of which I understand have been delayed. Without those, they cannot of course provide a wet lease service to SNBA; and as SNBA does not have the A330 on its AOC it could not dry lease in the A330s.

I am sure there are people on here who will recall the abortive operations by the likes of City Bird on behalf of LAC to FIH and Ethiopian Airlines on behalf of Rwanda Airlines toi KGL and BJM - and will recall how badly customer confidence was shaken when passengers turned up for flights they held tickets on - only to find that they did not operate! If that happens with SNBA, I suspect that it might bring the whole operation tumbling down again - confidence in it is not especially high, with the majority of corporate clients still adopting a 'wait and see' policy.
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:15 pm

If the African flights are very profitable, SNBA will start to fly to the African routes than next year!! And not Birdy anymore.

Can anyone confirm this please?

Best regards,
Sabena 690

PS: Ceilidh: glad that you confirmed that you are the same person as SAS23 Big grin
 
User avatar
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:44 pm

Hello to you all,

I closely follow the BIRDY case for the moment. It's difficult to imagine that they're strating up next friday... The training has well begun for cabin crews. EVAC exercises as well next week but where are those famous A333 ????

---------------------------------------

@SAS23/Ceilidh/Neil Robertson.

Sad to see you again provocating Belgian people... BTW, what's the situation with YOUR start up: CELTIC AIRWAYS ???? You remeber my topic about it ??

no regards,

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
luchtzak
Posts: 457
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RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:51 pm

@ Flying Belgian

One is scheduled next monday, the other one on next wednesday.

best regards
 
luchtzak
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:53 pm

1st : 22APR BOD-BRU
BDY330 – BOD 1000Z – 1130Z BRU OOSFN
2nd : 24APR BOD-BRU
BDY330 – BOD 1000Z – 1130Z BRU OOSFO

better schedule
 
User avatar
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 6:07 pm

@ Luchtzak:

Thanks for your info !!! I'm very glad to see big birds with SN Brussels Airlines titles !!!

FB.  Wink/being sarcastic
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
swake
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 4:47 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 6:10 pm

some blokes over here really are touchy...
 
luchtzak
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 6:10 pm

@ Flying Belgian

I was wondering what your real name is ....

If you want, leave it behind on http://www.luchtzak.be if you dare  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

best regards
 
Guest

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 7:10 pm

Flying Belgian - Sept 11 is what happened to the plans, as I said long ago. Working on other things now, though! Big grin
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:15 pm

LOL @ Flying Belgian  Big thumbs up

@Luchtzak:
Thx for the info about the arrival of the A333's of Birdy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

@Ceilidh:
It seems that you know as much of starting up an airline, as of Belgian aviation and aviation in general  Big thumbs up  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic

Regards,
Sabena 690
 
Sheepster
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2000 10:53 am

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Sun Apr 21, 2002 11:37 pm

I thought you were banned Ceilidh? Remeber when you were using this handle, and claiming you weren't Robertson?
Still trying to steal our spares in GSO and sell them to Heavylift?
 
Guest

RE: Birdy Airlines Ready For Take Off

Mon Apr 22, 2002 12:40 am

Sheepster - you're a sick puppy. In fact, so sick I understand that you were unconscious at the controls of an aircraft - resulting in your having to go for brain scans and other checkups ... and your licence was suspended as a result! Of course, a small problem like that didn't stop you from continuing to fly, did it?  Big grin

I wonder if Anglo American - or the CAA - know about that ... perhaps I'll ask them! Big grin Big grin Big grin

How can I be stealing spares (a) if I'm a part owner; and (b) I don't know - or especially care - exactly where they are?