United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8803
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Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:22 pm

Hey guys!

I understand that Qantas no longer fly to SFO. However, I heard that they used to........

When did they pull out of SFO? Before they actually pulled out of SFO, they used to fly the B 747-400 into SFO I suppose. Right?

Will they resume service to SFO anytime soon? If yes, I suppose they will find a codeshare partner.

There is indeed a market for SFO-SYD/MEL. They can connect millions and millions of Australians into SFO, as well as Millions and Millions of people from SFO to Australia. Although you may argue that QF already flies to LAX.

Comments?
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 12:17 am


I believe they pulled out of SFO in the mid 90's??

I remember one time seeing a 767 Qantas at SFO when I was living in San Bruno just next to the airport. I thought I would see a 747 from Qantas, but it was a 767. I am not sure but I believe that Qantas flew SYD-LAX-SFO??

UAL already flies SFO-SYD or have they discontinued that service?

Perhaps AMR could open up SJC-SYD and code-share with Qantas on this route. Does the 777 for AMR have the range? The San Jose area as well as the East Bay, this could be a excellent route for AMR. The silicon valley survivors regaining some glory, could be a good time to introduce a route for Qantas/AMR from SJC-AMR.
 
GuyBetsy1
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:00 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 12:39 am

QF serves SFO just fine with codeshare with AA via LAX.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
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RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 3:20 am

777D,

Is ETOPS an issue for AA?

-Des
 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:39 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 7:08 am

I believe the 767 operated a multi-stop route from MEL via somewhere to HNL then to SFO. At HNL it connected with QF17 which at the time operated SYD-NAN-HNL-LAX using a 747-200B Combi.

I took QF 17 back in about 1993.
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 7:21 am

As GuyBetsy stated, the codeshare arrangements ex-LAX cover the numbers.
SFO formed an important part in trans-pacific operations for Qantas, culminating in the SYD-SFO non-stop QF3, flown by a B747-38SP. (SYD-SFO is actually shorter than SYD-LAX!)
The last services were operated by a 767-338ER via HNL and LAX.
 
hawkeye2
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:24 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 7:36 am

QANTAS is unlikely to ever return to SFO. They got creamed once UA started SFO-SYD service; after all, SFO is UA's home turf. The dom-com implosion and general economic downturn in the Bay Area doesn't help either.
 
planenutz
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:50 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 8:55 am

Qantas used to have its North American headquarters in San Francisco up until 1991. They masterleased a building located at 360 Post Street, facing Union Square, where thay had management, sales, marketing, and their North American call center.

Unfortunately, when property prices shot up in SF in the early 90's they decided to move their entire operation to Tucson, AZ!

There service to SFO was rudamentery at best. Sometimes a 767, sometimes a 747. The service wasn't daily, and British Airways did all of their handling.

Qantas still maintains staff at SFO for the AA codeshares to LAX. In fact, until very recently, AA maintained a seperate check-in line at their ticket counter for Qantas passengers (a Qantas sign hung above the position, and the same woman, wearing a Qantas uniform, would assist people).

Not all who wander are lost....
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8803
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RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 2:04 pm

Can anyone give me the list of US Airlines that have flown into Australia before?

1) United
2) Continental
3) Northwest

..........

That's all I know.
 
gardermoen
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 2:09 pm

Besides UA, CO, and NW,

Hawainn flew Honolulu-Sydney
American Airlines flew Dallas-Honolulu-SYD
and of course Pan Am, which United took over its Pacific division.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
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RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 2:38 pm

Delta? TWA? I guess not.

Current, United is the ONLY US Airline flying into Australia. Right?

 Smile
 
gardermoen
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 2:46 pm

United AIrlines is indeed the only US airline into Australia (im not taking into account AA codeshares).
Also, it just came to my mind, Continental Micronesia fly to Cairns , however I dont think you could class them strictly as a US airline, right? But I take it their aircraft are all US registered, right?
Delta, TWA, US Airways, America West etc have never been this way.
 
aardvark
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:45 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 2:46 pm

Correct! UA is the last remaining US airline flying to Australia. I believe NW were the last ones to pull out.
 
IndianicWorld
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 3:59 pm

I also agree that QF will not return to SFO, maybe Australian Airlines might though....

The market there is alreday taken up by UA with there connections to that hub too it wouldnt make sense to enter that field.

QF is struggling internationally though imo, as they dont have many international destinations anymore.

Heres the list of remaining QF operated desinations:

New Zealand
* Auckland
* Wellington
* Christchurch
* Queenstown

Indonesia
* Bali

China
* Hong Kong

Singapore
* Singapore

Papua New Guinea
* Mort Moresby

South Africa
* Johanasburg

Japan
* Tokyo
* Nagoya

Phillipines
* Manila

Europe
* London LHR
* Frankfurt
* Rome
* Paris

USA

* Los Angeles
* New York
* DFW ( coming soon )

Mumbai , india will be discontinued
Argentina service will be discontinued, replaced by Lan Chile codeshare to Santiago

sorry if I have missed any

Not a huge list for a international carrier and flag carrier for Australia imo. They have lost many opportunites to become a pwerful force for travel into Australia, but these have now gone to other Asian carriers.

Hers the list of cities once served by Qantas planes:

* San Fransisco
* Vancouver
* Toronto
* Nagoya
* Port Vila
* Noumea
* Kuala Lumpur
* Jakarta
* Harare
* Belgrade
* Manchester ?
* Athens
* Bahrain
* Shanghai
* Beijing

Add to the list if you have any more.

ciao
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1749
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 4:13 pm

It is very strange that I saw a L1011 American Trans Airlines (ATA) in the Sydney Airport in December 1999...probably it's a charter airline?
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
docpepz
Posts: 1706
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 8:20 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 4:24 pm

You mean Qantas only serves 18 international destinations (of which 4 are in New Zealand) And they don't fly to the capital of their closest neighbour, Indonesia? I never knew they discontinued their Jakarta service.

Hmm.. never knew that they only served 14 cities outside the Australia-NZ region. I've always thought they were a much bigger airline. (Well maybe my perception is warped since I see zillions of QF planes at SIN all the time..... )
 
IndianicWorld
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 4:35 pm

Well I got the impression that hey stopped Jakarta services, but Im not sure. Its hard to tell what destinations they fly to , as most r served from SYD. Here in MEL theres only :

* Auckland
* Wellington
* Christchurch
* Singapore
* Hong Kong
* Los Angeles
* Bali

And comig in Jul, Tokyo service.

It is abit difficult to understand where they are flying to, as they seem to start flying to a destination, like Canada, then pull out very quickly and replace it with a codeshare.

ciao
 
Guest

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 4:57 pm

How many international destinations does UA serve, or for that matter, an airline like BA?

I think the problem with QF intl is that Australia certainly does not have the population to support such wide destinations...and I think QF would have more destinations if there were 777s in their fleet- 744 is too big for some routes and 767 too small.

SixStarAnsett
 
gardermoen
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:01 pm

Actually, Qantas DOES fly to Jakarta from both Perth and Syney.
 
wirraway
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:32 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:04 pm

The most obvious one's missing on the list is:

Thailand
Bangkok

Indonesia
Jakarta (QF 41)


Noumea (QF 91)

Japan
Osaka (QF 113)

Wirraway


 
United Airline
Topic Author
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RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:06 pm

Qantas no longer fly to KUL. Right?
 
wirraway
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:32 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:23 pm

With QFs "Australian Airlines" in Oct, we can also add:

Taiwan
Taipei

Japan
Fukuoka

Wirraway
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2854
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:42 pm

Dont know how i forgot BKK....KUL will become a Australian Airlines destination next year it has been reported. hanx for clarrifying the Jakarta flights too ppl.

Qantas is currently more concerned about domestic flying i suppose, as it is more profitable. Im wondering will QF actually start up any new routes themselves, not Aust Airlines. It seems that they are downgrading destinations down to the very profitable few, and then are ready to deploy Aust Airlines onto the other routes.

With Virgin coming onto the INternational scene Im wondering where QF will start to deply Aust Airlines from, just to cover all bases. If Virgin establishes themselves as a real player, QF might begin to feel the heat very quickly.

ciao
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:52 pm

They still fly to Honolulu! Taipei is still served by QF isn't it?!

Papeete and Nadi are also no longer served just to add to the list!
 
Braniff Place
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:22 pm

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 8:01 pm

List of American airlines associated with Australia.


1)United Airlines still flying to SYD and MEL used to also fly to BNE until 1995 due to poor loads.

2)Continental Airlines all services cancelled due to load factors. No codeshare agreements. CO Micronesia flys to CNS on to Guam, Hawaii and Los Angeles. No Continental codesharing exists on their former MEL, SYD, BNE services.

3)Northwest Orient Cancelled the operations due to harsh political conditions created by the Australian Government in the 1990s. No codeshare agreements were established.

4)American Airlines flied to SYD and MEL and cancelled due to unprofitability during the 1970s now codeshares with Oneworld prtnr Qantas Airways including BNE.

5) Pan American flied to SYD from 1946 and sold the routes to United Airlines in 1986.

6) TWA had codesharing agreements in the 1970s with Qantas Airways Ltd these were ended years later.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
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RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 9:42 pm

I'll say this though: if QF were a member of Star Alliance they would be flying into SFO, not LAX.

But since QF is part of OneWorld, they're flying to LAX, where there is likely more O & D and code-share traffic.
 
hawkeye2
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:24 pm

LAX Vs SFO

Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:04 am

Hope this doesn't turn into a NorCal/SoCal flame war... such is not my intention, although I am a true SoCaler at heart  Smile This is not flamebait, but just my opinion...

But face it, from the perspective of the airlines, SFO has serious weaknesses compared to LAX.

* LAX has good weather year-around, and runways that are properly separated unlike SFO, so delays are rare. Everytime there's so much as a big cloud in the vicinity of SFO, it seems that every flight gets delayed, and ripples throughout the nation.

* LAX has 2 1/2 the population of the Bay Area => more O/D traffic.

* the LA area economy is less focused in the tech industry, so it took less of a hit during the dot-com implosion.

* LAX has airport management with a clue (SFO's new international terminal: signs and announcements in English only in an International Terminal?! Rent for stores/restaurants 3 times the level of the old international terminal, for about the same traffic level?!)

* LAX is not singly dominated by UA, even though they are the largest carrier, unlike SFO (and DEN, IAD, and ORD to some extent)

Look at airlines like Thai, Malaysian, Air New Zealand, Air Tahiti Nui, Air Pacific, EL AL, VARIG, Aerolineas Argentinas, Aer Lingus, Lan Chile, Air Jamaica, China Southern have never served SFO or pulled out long ago (QANTAS, SWISS, China Eastern). As far as I know, none of these airlines have plans to start or resume SFO service.

I'm sure if UA/Star Alliance was building a West Coast hub now from scratch, they'd go for LAX, not SFO.
 
LanChileA340
Posts: 96
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RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:34 am

QF will surely not ever resume services to destinations such as SFO, PPT and AMS (all destinations that were once served by Qantas aircraft on a steady schedule). Instead, Qantas has strengthened its relations with its oneworld partners which cover those destinations for them. For example:
SFO=AA
PPT=LA
AMS=BA
 
blink182
Posts: 5285
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Will Qantas Resume Service To Sfo?

Sun Apr 21, 2002 9:40 am

I think QF will mostly rely on codeshares more or less. I think they will not fly to exotic places using their own planes. What will probably end up happening is they end up flying the partner's hub, and they codeshare with the partner.

For example: They codeshare with AA into ORD, and they will probably codeshare on several AA flights out of DFW to ORD once QF starts DFW service. Eventually, ORD could be added as it is a major AA hub.

As for SFO, they have a United hub to deal with with little AA activity, and at LAX, they have a sizeable AA operation to connect to. Speaking of, does AA do QF's ground handling at LAX and JFK?

blink
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