Arsenal@LHR
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Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:09 am

What will Finnair replace it's MD-11 with when they decide to retire them? A330/A340 looks logical to me since they have A320/A321's in their fleet. Can we rule out 763/764's? Finnair does have the 757 in it's fleet which could be complimented with 767's.

thanks
Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
AY-MD11
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:18 am

Now for the logical decision would be to get mix of A340-600 and A330-300.About 5 ac would be ok.Now they have 4 MD-11s and that is too small amount cause they dont have so much "downtime" and if 1 breaks it mean the schedule will go all f***** up.Now in the highseasons they usually get full planes and would need more seat and that why -600 would be great.And A330 great plane for JFK runs.767 is way too small replacement for MD11 and they thinked about it many years ago but didnt go for it.
 
kaitak
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:21 am

I would think the A330-200 would be most likely, together with the A330-300IGW for busier routes, such as JFK, PEK, BKK. It already has the 32X, which will be a crucial factor, but even without that, I think the 332 would be a perfect aircraft for AY. It has the range to fly any AY M11 route, but more importantly, it has excellent cargo capacity and being slightly smaller, it should allow frequencies to be increased.

Its oneworld partner, Aer Lingus, is a committed 330 operator and could assist it in operating and introducing the new type.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:24 am

What about the passenger demand for Finnair? How big is AY's route network?

In Arsene we trust!!
 
AY-MD11
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:30 am

if your thinking the A332 as soul ac in theyr fleet then forget it.It's just too small and dont know if it has even the range of MD11 ?
 
Britair
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:54 am

What about the 777? I'm sure British Airways, American and Cathay Pacific would lend a hand!! I know BA is desperate to get rid of a few (the early models with GE engines)
 
OH-LZA
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:59 am

IMO Finnair could buy 2-4 A330-200's and 2-4 A340-600's. The A330's could operate on the JFK route, and possibly NRT with an increase of frequency, also YYZ could get A330 service during the summer (not exactly sure about the profitability of the route). Also we could see SFO back in Finnair's route network for the summer timetable, the route could be profitable as Finland has a lot of hi-tech industry.

Finnair's scheduled intercontinental network currently consists of the following routes:

HEL-JFK-HEL (daily)
HEL-BKK-HKG-BKK-HEL (four times a week)
HEL-BKK-SIN-BKK-HEL (three times a week)
HEL-PEK-HEL (four times a week)
HEL-NRT-HEL (two times a week)

Also, YYZ is served thrice a week from mid-June until mid-August, these flights are officially leisure flights, and are operated on B757-200's.

Alexander
 
OH-LZA
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:11 am

Britair,

I don't think the 777 is highest on Finnair's list because there is no commonality between it and their existing fleet, when there is between the A320 Series and the A330 and the A340.

As for Finnair buying some of BA's GE powered 777's, I don't think it'll happen because their range is too short for Finnair's needs.

Alexander
 
woodsboy
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:42 am

They could save themselves lots of money and pick up a couple MD-11s second hand and be done with it! No more training, no more MX changes and there are a few MD-11s out there that are homeless (I am thinking the one ex-CityBird MD-11 in Abbotsford BC and perhaps an ex-Sabena. The MD-11s arent old at all and the apparantly work just fine for Finnair. I didnt think that Finnair had plans for replacing them anytime soon.
 
AY-MD11
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 7:08 am

That would be most logical to get few second hand MD11s with GE-engines to join the fleet if theyr opening new routes.And i think they will fly about 8-10years still.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 8:15 am

The Finnair MD-11's are only 9-12 years old. Lots of life left.

If they're smart, they'll keep them for 10 years and improve the ROI.

No need to replace the MD-11 anytime soon.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
transswede
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 8:41 am

*IF* (big If) finnair wanted to replace their Md-11's now, I think the best solution would be a fleet of pure A330-200's. (maybe 5-6 of them)

The A330-200 has slightly less passenger capacity than the MD-11, and about the same cargo capacity, while having the range to handle all of AY's current routes. A smaller plane than the MD-11 would fit Finnair better, being a medium sized carrier, and allow more frequencies on the routes.

I don't really think that a mix of A330's and A340's would be good with such a small fleet (4-6), equipment trouble/change would be a big hassle with more than one widebody type, I would think. (Or they could do it like SAS, order both the A330-300 and A340-300 and outfit them with the same number of seats)

But as others have said, they'll probably keep the MD-11's for a while.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 8:44 am

The MD-11's aren't going anywhere at the moment, but it would be interesting to see what they would order when the time comes.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
transswede
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 19, 2002 8:48 am

BTW, according to Airbus' site, the maximum A330-200 range is 11950 - 12350 km.

The MD-11 range, according to Boeing, is 12270 - 13230 km

A330-200 should be able to handle the longest finnair routes without problems:
HEL-BKK is 7881 km
HEL-SFO is 8747 km
 
OH-LZA
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Mon Apr 22, 2002 12:07 am

One has to remember that ETOPS is a crucial fact, as far as I know Finnair only has 120min certification, which is not enough for their routes to NRT and PEK according to this map http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=HEL-BKK-HKG%2C+HEL-BKK-SIN%2C+HEL-NRT%2C+HEL-PEK%2C+HEL-JFK%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=km&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=120&ETOPS=180, 180min would work though. No problems on any other current routes. I see no reason why they couldn't get 180min ETOPS so it isn't stopping Finnair to get A330's.

Alexander
 
The Ticketor
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:33 pm

Woodsboy, that ex CityBird MD11 you mentioned where at HEL about a month ago, I guess for a possible dry-lease. It is not the first time it's been there, the guy I talked to said "Oh, it's just the annual CityBird visit", no word on any deal though.

I don't think you will hear anything on this for quite a while, but you might hear something about smaller jets at the end of this year. There's a working group working on the "Jet100" project looking at smaller a/c for some routes.

As for replacing MD11s with Boeings; not going to happen (IMO).
 
airblue
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 26, 2002 6:46 pm

Finnair has a long-haul fleet of 4 MDD-11.
If they are going to replace this fleet soon, it's likely to think they are going to order 5 aircrafts plus 3/5 options.
With a so small long-haul fleet a mix of A330/340 is really a non sense especially for equipment trouble/change.
The best solution is to buy only one kind of plane.
There are two solution:
A330/200 or B777/200ER.
A332 has commonality with A32X fleet, but is smaller than today M11. So with this plane they could improve the number of frequencies. This plane is the best for their North America operations, but maybe not the best solution for the Asian network.
B772 is more close to M11 in pax capacity and could carry more cargo. This plane is great for their Asian network, but maybe not the best solution for North America.
In my opinion for Finnair network today B772 is the best solution, but at the end, the A332 commonality with the rest of the fleet is also very important for a medium size carrier like Finnair.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Fri Apr 26, 2002 7:11 pm

@ "The Ticketor": any news about their RJ/RA tender? Are already any favourites (EMB170, FD728, CRJ700?) known or any dates?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
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JRodriguez136
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Sat Apr 27, 2002 12:47 am

First of all, Finnair will not be getting rid of their MD-11's. All 4 of their MD-11's are new (entered service in '92 or so), they as you probably know replaced the DC-10-30's. They were in a time saying that they were going to replace the MD-11 for A340's, as you can see that didn't happen. They also mentioned they were gonna go ALL Airbus, the thing is that they just received a new 757, which is the only one in the new colors of all of their 757's. Remember Finnair was the first company to enter the MD-11 for passenger commercial service. OH-LGA was the first MD-11 at JFK and it has a good history. I don't think that after painting and re-newing the interior of ALL MD-11's they are going to be replaced. They are now saying they will get EJR's because they are giving all of their ATR's to Aero Airlines and they need their own planes to operate short-routes in Finland, etc. They also "supposedly"(unofficial) said that to get the Airbuses cheaper, I really don't know if this is true, but don't care, as long as I do my job that I am assigned to in JFK w/ them, I'm ok, I guess.
But the point is that Finnair is growing and they sure need extra aircraft especially for their long-routes, such as A340 would be nice. They are now in talks of wet leasing an MD-11 from CityBird to enter service on September, but I think they are thinking very hard about this, but whatever they do, as an employee, I wish them the best, and I thank them for keeping up the progress here in the USA as well as in Europe...
The sky is not the limit...
 
legolars
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Sat Apr 27, 2002 1:40 am

do the have PTV's, or are they going to get that?
 
The Ticketor
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Mon Apr 29, 2002 5:28 pm

No news about an exact type for the Jet100, except that their prime candidate was an aircraft not yet in service. But things change of course, so who knows...

Rodriguez, why isn't your pic on the intranet? Chicken?  Wink/being sarcastic

Latest a/c news is that a Dash DHC8-Q460 was seen at HEL doing a demo flight with some AY brass. That could mean several things. Maybe Aero (EE) will get new a/c? Maybe AY is looking at the Dash as replacement for the ATR72s being handed over to EE? Maybe this has something to do with KF pulling out of domestic operations in Finland and more capacity is needed?

I don't know, but if they decide to buy the Dash, I sure hope it works out better than it did for SK in the begining.
 
kj76
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Mon Apr 29, 2002 6:59 pm

Have to remember that Finnair has used their MD11's (oh-lga and oh-lgb) mainly for charterflights to mediterranian destinations...I have flown 3 years in a row from Helsinki to Rhodes,Greece with OH-LGA.
At least greek islands are so popular that they operate the widebodies on those routes.
This year I'll fly next sunday again to Rhodes but tickets say that it's a B757...we shall see...
-Conrad-
 
Dragon Lady
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Mon Apr 29, 2002 10:58 pm

I just spoke with a person I know in Ay fleet planning who said that Boeing has made AY an offer to take additional MD-11 aircraft that are available. Boeing has also appereantly offered the B777-200ER as a MD-11 replacement in the future.

Alexandria
 
JAL
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:12 pm

Given the large number of A320/321 it already operate the A330/340 would be a logical choice for them. But then again, many of their OneWorld partners operates the 777 perhaps they will go for Boeing.


When will they replace their MD-11?
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
The Ticketor
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RE: Finnair MD-11 Replacement

Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:24 pm

Dragon lady, that is probably that ex CityBird MD11, which I believe is now somehow owned by them.

Kj76, you will not fly an MD11 as they are all in scheduled operations. That is why Leisure Flights now have 7 B757s, instead of just 5.

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