Guest

Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:33 am

DRINKING BAN - The days of sipping your glass of bubbly at 40,000ft could be over, if the UK government of Tony Blair has its way.

We hear that the growing number of "air rage" incidents is apparently forcing the government to consider a ban on drinking alcohol on all domestic and international flights on British airlines.

A report in the London Sunday Times newspaper says the measure is being debated as part of preparations for a government study paper on aviation, due for publication in the spring.

The UK’s airline safety authority, the CAA, has reported a big increase in the number of violent or threatening incidents on aircraft - up from 800 three years ago to 1,250 in 2001.

This steady increase in attacks by drunk passengers on cabin crew members has forced the issue on to the government’s agenda.

We reckon that if the proposals become concrete, they will be strongly opposed by airlines, but the problem is that they already have the backing of cabin crew and groups representing the travelling public.
According to a Transport Department source, the most likely scenario is an in-flight bar from which cabin crew would be able to control the number of drinks handed out.

But what to do with all these tax-free bottles bought before the flight? We’re anxiously waiting for the outcome of the debate and raise our glass in the hope that the bill will be defeated.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:37 am

This will be very sad for a beer lover like you, isn't it  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic

I checked your profile  Wink/being sarcastic

Sabena 690
 
dripstick
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:41 am


Hey SAS23...here's your dream airline:



Cheers!
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
lmml 14/32
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:44 am

Do you have the source of this info? Sounds OK with me. I've had my share or incidents with British boozers on my flights. In fact I am waiting for the verdict of a case which was taken to court in Dublin when I and the Ramper were attacked by two men - one British - whom I stopped from boarding the aircraft because they were drunk.
 
FUTURA
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:44 am

I say well done 2 the government. In my opinion, Alchohol should be banned from flights. Do we really need to consume alcohol during a flight???? Can't you wait a few hours?!!!!!!
Vincent
 
FUTURA
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:50 am

Seems 2 me that we are a nation of obsessive alcoholics if you argue about that. And at 15 im left thinking "what kind of role models are you for our future children?!"
Vincent
 
vickybiccy
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:55 am

I bet the pubs in airports are rubbing there hands together...think of all the extra punters they'll get now that pax won't be able to drink on the plane...!!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:07 am

If a ban is put into place, it will have minimum effect and won't really cut down the high number if air rage incidents. People will just buy alcohol from duty free or buy their own knowing that they won't get any on the flight.

But i support a ban on alcohol, it's the least we can do to stop thuggish behaviour on planes.

Rdgs
Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
TimeForFlight
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:09 am

oy! think of how horrible it must be to fly with a group of rowdy, druken soccer (football) fans! i suppose if the ban is put in effect, bars/pubs mgiht be found all the way down the boarding ramp - so long as they arent on the aircraft... all i say is allow for alcohol on the planes - just cap the number a person may have during a flight. IMO, theres nothing wrong with having handcuffs on the plane to keep a rowdy drunk restrained while the tiredness overcoems them and they quicly fall into a deep sleep...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ahhhhhhhh, sleep
 
jaysit
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 am

Bunch of busy bodies ruining it for everyone through holier-than-thou legislation.

Cabin crew always have the discretion NOT to serve alcohol to drunken rowdies. They need to exercise that option.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Skymonster
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:17 am

Well, another act that proves our current government are a bunch of complete idiots.

So they ban drinks on flights... So what? People will still drink before they get on their flights. And people will carry on alcohol (duty free, etc). At least at the moment passengers don't need to "tank up" before they get on, and the cabin crew can regulate intake. If a bad on alcohol on board is implemented, people who want to drink will drink more before they get on board, in an environment where control on how much they drink is not controlled.

One more thing - some people drink on flights to relieve the stress of flying itself (yes, flying is a problem for some people). Banning alcohol will make this people more anxious and potentially increase the risk of them doing something stupid because of the stress - some alcohol can be a calmer.

So as I said, yet again another ill thought out idea from the idiots who think they are in control in the UK.
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
lmml 14/32
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:20 am

It's not that some people can't pass a few hours without a drink. But when it's free it's irresistible for the British. I fly on charter as well as scheduled flights to and from the UK. On chartered flights all they drink is juices and water. On scheduled flights they start asking for juices and water but then when they discover it's for free then the party starts. When the smoking ban came into effect air-rage incidents were on the increase. The same will happen with a total alcohol ban. So instead of banning alcohol from the flights Blair can outlaw free drinks only. Thus the more civilised of us will not have to be punished, while the bums will be controlled.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:28 am

"So as I said, yet again another ill thought out idea from the idiots who think they are in control in the UK."

So isn't the UK government in control of the UK?



In Arsene we trust!!
 
ILUV767
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:32 am

Its about time!!!!!!!!

Although, they need to shut down the bars too. Actually no, I take that back. Passengers are currently not aloud to board an aircraft if they are or appear to be intoxicated.

Ban the booze!

I L U V 7 6 7
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:35 am

Ban the booze and lock up those who cause loutish behaviour on planes!

We don't need people making flying any more disturbing and alarming specially after sep 11th.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
rootsgirl
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:49 am

I just don't get it and I wonder what has happened in the past to peoples' decency and morales that would make them revert to behaving like cavemen/women on board an aircraft.

I recall years ago, when all drinks were free, smoking was permitted and there was no movie or on board entertainment.

Did people complain about no movies? NO, they entertained themselves. Did they bitch about choice of meal? NO, they never got one. Were they responsible drinking in the air? YES - the majority of the time.

I recall doing U.K. flights all the time out of Toronto and it was very rare to see air rage or unruly drunks. I remember happy people, happy to be going on vacation and if they had a few too many they usually passed out or went to sleep. I don't know what happened to people, but if it's the wave of today and tomorrow then it is pretty damm sad.

Sad because I think a person should be able to enjoy a cocktail in the air. Why not? It's a shame that a few idiots have ruined it for the rest.
 
Treg
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:04 am

What's wrong with you, britons?  Confused

I don't know. I have taken in my life hundred-so flights and never-ever experenced any problems with drunk people. Yes, I have never taken any flights with BA, but is this problem really so British? Look at the late-night flights from CPH to the destinations in Sweden. The alcohol is basically unlimited (especially when the plane is not sold out) and still everyone knows how to behave. I am really confused here.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:23 am

Welcome to Tony Blair's nanny state.

That guy is such a control freak.

He wants to look at the important aviation issues like crippling air tax and his stupid, poorly thought out part privatisation of NATS.

All they have to do is incorporate into air law mandatory custodial sentences for anything which could be considered as a danger to air safety whilst under the influence of alcohol.

Lock a few of them up, publish "Aviation's gallery of shame" for everyone to see them, ban them not just from all UK carriers, but at check-in, irrespective of carrier, and the trouble will soon disappear.

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:37 am

- People will drink until the very last second before boarding, they´ll appear to be sober during boarding, but when the alcohol kicks in, they´ll be hopelessly drunk.

- The existing rules are enough, if only they were strictly enforced.

- Have you ever been on a flight were the amount of alcohol distributed on board alone can make you really seriously drunk? I haven´t - there´s not really drink service every ten minutes, is there? So drunk air ragers must have got their alcohol level on the ground. And if the crew don´t serve them additional drinks, that problem is solved.

- I don´t really believe alcohol is the cause for air rage. It may trigger people to tick off, but the real underlying problems are different.


Overall - bad idea.

Daniel Smile
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:38 am

Who needs booze on flights anyway? If are flying from the US to the UK, you shouldn't have it because it will only enhance the jet lag affects-exponentially! And if you are on a short haul flight, can you go at least 2 hours without it?

The same law should be passed in the US. I'm all for drinking, and LOVE my booze, but come on. Drinking on planes is a very bad idea!! If it doesn't cause worse jet lag, it still makes you feel groggy and god for bid the plane should have an emergency on landing, your senses may not be in the best shape to respond appropriately.

BTW, with over 1,200 incidences a year in the UK alone, that is like 3 times a day someone has air rage due to drinking. I don't think Tony Blair's gov't is being over bearing, they are a little too late.
 
ILUV767
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK

Mon Apr 22, 2002 9:02 am

Deltaflyertoo wrote:
BTW, with over 1,200 incidences a year in the UK alone, that is like 3 times a day someone has air rage due to drinking. I don't think Tony Blair's gov't is being over bearing, they are a little too late.

I agree...it is late. Air Rage does happen very very often, and it is a serious issue. In most cases the passenger was drunk. Personally, I agree with Blairs decision. It does need to go one step farther and that would be to stop it at the airport.

I L U V 7 6 7

 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 9:09 am

Crews need to be more assertive about exercising their right not to serve alcohol. The solution to a problem caused by a few is not to punish all.

BusinessElite just isn't the same without a nice glass of Krug Grand Cuvee.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
dripstick
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 9:23 am

They could introduce a "bouncer tax" to the air fare and have them wander the cabin.


Just the thought of getting bounced at 35,000 ft would...ah, nevermind.
What's another word for thesaurus?
 
Jmc777
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 9:42 am

Phew..took a while to get throught that lot, however I do have a few comments:

1. Banning alcohol on board will NOT stop the air rage incidents on board aircraft.

2. This is not a problem limited to UK airlines.

3. Many air rage incidents stem from activities in the airport, which can be broken down easily:

a) Delays: Poor communication - pi**es everyone off, yet airlines seem to think they can get away with it.
: Representation - Customers need someone to answer their questions, not people who simply read from a sheet of paper, but people who actually UNDERSTAND what they are talking about and care about the people they are delivering the info to.
: Airport seating - Usually totally inadequate, which means customers are sleeping on floors before a flight, makes them real happy!!!!!!!
: Airport prices - Again usually expensive and again pi**es people off.
b)Cabin Crew: Attitude - If you are the last person to board(through no fault of your own, or not), is the sneer from the crew really justified?
: Customers who treat cabin crew as something left on the shoe after taking the dog out: As well as infuriating crew, it also angers other customers, sometimes prompting them to take action.
: Cabin Crew PA's - Give it a rest!!! I can read how much drinks and duty free are....I want to watch the movie!!!!
c)Customers: Stressed out from connections
: Personal problems
: Work difficulties
: Simple Ars**oles
: Wannabes

d)NOT EVEN GOING INTO THE SMOKING DEBATE : Can Airlines sell patches??????

The Simple Fact of the matter is that over the last 10 years of MY flying career, peoples' expectations have changed. What was acceptable then, isnt now. There seems to be no way to change it. I have worked long haul for BA with free booze and charter where they pay for it and the customer is generally the same.

End of the day, what should air travel be?

It should be Safe, Comfortable and Enjoyable.....for ALL parties, customers and crew alike.....until that balance is met, I think problems will continue, as crew put up with less and less, and so do customers.
 
aking8488
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 2:23 pm

California Senator Diane Feinstein advocated the same idea for U.S. domestic flights a about a year ago...it fizzled out very quickly (due in large part to lobbying by the alcohol industry I suspect). I imagine this idea will go to the same place.
 
Guest

RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:10 pm

I suspect as well that a large part of the problem stems from the sort of people that are flying today. The low fares - especially on charter airlines - means that you get the sort of people flying that you'd normally cross the street to avoid!

The solution is therefore to increase fares substantially and offer a quality service for quality people!

(Oh, and ban the less desirable members of pop groups that can afford to travel premium class as well).
 
flyvs007
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:32 pm

Great idea. Can't stand being next to a drunk person, especially long haul.
 
TNboy
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:37 pm

Aking8488: Due in larger part to even more intense lobbying by Rogue Trader, I would suspect. And more power to him. There goes any plans for him to vacation in Britain, I imagine.  Big grin
"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
 
artsyman
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:04 pm

The alcohol is NOT the problem, the person is the problem.

Jeremy
 
VH-DAQ
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 8:49 pm

why can't the FA see when someone has had enough to drink and then not serve them as they do in bars etc

however if they did introduce this i can guarantee that ticket prices will not drop! so once again the aviation consumer will lose out!

hooroo
DAQ
 
TNboy
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Mon Apr 22, 2002 9:09 pm

It's not just the alcohol consumed on the flight. There are a lot of fly-in, fly-out (onshore and offshore) situations, where workers are on a mine site without alcohol for 2 weeks at a time. When they hit the airport, with a few hours to wait for a flight, they hit the bar and hit it hard. By the time they are ready to board, they are legless.
The responsible airlines will deny them boarding - despite occasionally incurring the wrath of a big corporate client. But it's the only answer - otherwise the FAs have to deal with a plane load of drunken hoons even before the wheels have left the ground. Again, the tough FAs will demand they are removed, and more power to them.
Bill
"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
 
roguetrader
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:00 am

From the March 25,2002 Delta Employee Magazine, News Digest

A customer writes that he went to the back galley on a long-haul flight and asked for an after dinner drink, which had been promissed earlier. He said the flight attendants were talking to each other and that one replied, "The bar is closed. Go sit down."

Solution (provided by Delta):
"The flight attendants involved did not respond appropriately...a customer may ask for a beverage at any time during the flight."


This example explains why airline bar service is undesirable for some. The flight attendants want more time to sit around and talk, relax, and in general don't like to be disturbed by the people who's business provides their paychecks. They consider service to the passengers a hassle.

Diane Feinstein thinks she knows whats best for us and that we need government help to lead our lives. She's a horrible woman and scares me to death.

As noted above, there were not nearly as many problems back when your inflight entertainment was limited to only smoking and drinking. The airlines create the air rage themselves by the poor service they provide. Alcohol only amplifies a much deeper problem.

kind regards,

RogueTrader

 
lmml 14/32
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:12 am

The airlines create the air rage themselves by the poor service they provide. Alcohol only amplifies a much deeper problem.

Air ragers are the rogues (pardon the pun Rogue Trader !) of our society. The airlines did not create them. And poor service does not induce air rage. It has been said ad nauseum here that you board the aircraft to get to your destination. Not to eat drink and be merry (enjoy the flight by all means). That is an optional extra brought about by the consumist competitive market we live in (nothing wrong with that). It is the wrong impression that a section of the travelling public have of the airlines that has contributed in no small measure to create the Air Rage Monster. People have come to expect a lot of the airlines. And the airlines go to great lengths to advertise that they exceed expectations. In reality it is all cosmetic. It is not the service that is bad. It is the discrepancy between what the individual passenger expects and what the airline offers as standard. I have had passengers attempt to help themselves from my bar trolley saying "It is their right" ! Passengers do not even have the decency of waiting in line for the lavatory these days. Coach pax expect to use the Business class lavs with impunity. The reason? "There is a long line at the back". So what? Wait in line!!
What's so wrong with that? I say it here. But woe to me should I dare say something like this in the face to a passenger on my flight !! The passenger pays my paycheck sure. And, true, FA's can be rude and lazy. But that does not justify air rage. There is something called a comment card (which some airlines even provide in every seat back). Use your pen to take revenge !! Causing trouble on an aircraft will not get you redress. It will only get you in jail.
 
swake
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:18 am

Hi love, two pints of lager and a packet of crisps please!
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:53 am

Of all the alcohol related problems I have seen on board airliners - and they are quite a few - the problem passenger(s) were drunk already when boarding the plane.

Mr. Blair's proposal doesn't solve that problem.

I never drink alcohol on a plane. But that's only because after landing I always go straight to work, or I have to drive a (rented) car, or both.

But when I retire, then I would think that it would be a pity if I couldn't get or buy a glass of good wine on a long flight.

Airline crews, bus drivers, train conductors, they all face the same problem. They have to solve the problem the best they can. Sometimes they fail to do a perfect job, we all fail sometimes.

But remember, Mr. Blair's proposal solves no problem.

Last time I witnessed the problem was two drunk Danes on an Air Portugal flight from LIS to ZRH. They were screaming for more beer already while taxiing for take-off. During the flight they were served only alcohol free beer - in Portuguese beer cans with text they couldn't read. That was smart. Great job Air Portugal!

But denying their access to the plane would have been even smarter.

Regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
jmc1975
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:37 am

I'm not sure banning alcohol served onboard the aircraft would help much. What they need to do, is ban all alcohol sales in airports, therefore they can't get loaded before they get on the plane and also be a threat to gate agents.
.......
 
lmml 14/32
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:26 pm

How about arming the crew with a breathaliser? That will solve a few problems of deciding who is drunk and who's not. Perhaps in the future, with all the smart security technology that scans eyeballs we can have a combi machine in which you breathe while your eye balls are being scanned.
Of course this only solves half of the problem the rest is up to the crew - and the passengers.
As for the TAP method of serving alchohol free beer I agree it is smart. We use that old trick with Moslems who forget their religion at 35000ft. Moslems only ask for whisky - which for them is the term for alcohol. They get drunk easily because they are not used to it. So we serve them ginger ale in minuture whisky bottles. That seems to satisfy most of them.
 
SBE727
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Wed Apr 24, 2002 12:24 am

Hi there,

Banning alcohol on flights is just not practical.
I don't think i can add anymore to what has allready been said.
If they do ban it,just think of the money that the airline and crew will loose on profit and commission....AIR FARES INCREASED... to compensate for the loss made by banning alcohol.

I think all we need is for a bit more back up from the government and airline authoritys to make it aware to the public that the crew have complete control over the consumption of alcohol and can refuse it to anyone and if necessary take the appropiate actions against them.

Passengers just see us being there for the sake of it.The public,airlines and the authoritys need to give the crew more respect and power to be able to enforce certain regulations without the purser or other crew thinking they may get into trouble because they have had the police called to come and deal with drunks.

Some crew are scared of confronting the situations that are presented to them.

CREW HAVE TO BE IN CONTROL....not the passengers.

many thx
sbe727

 
lmml 14/32
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RE: Alcohol To Be Banned On Flights To/from The UK?

Wed Apr 24, 2002 12:45 am

SBE727: You in the UK are luckier than the rest of us as you are the country in Europe with the toughest laws where ar-rage is concerned. I personally have acted innumerable times and stopped serving tipsy pax before the situation worsened. I have even taken two pax to court (see my first post in this thread). I have always found the backing of my airline. I agree that some FA's are scared of being rapped. But when hopefully they will learn.
I, too, agree that a total ban is not called for. What I would suggest is banning free drinks. That way we will not loose our commission !!  Big thumbs up