CoAir@IAH
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:29 am

ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:44 am

This is a story from the Associated Press about an ATA jet that was forced to land at STL after a few passengers were injured....

"""ST. LOUIS (AP) - An American Trans Air plane flying through a thunderstorm hit severe turbulence Thursday and made an unscheduled landing at Lambert Airport so 10 injured passengers could be treated.
None of the injuries were life-threatening, the airline said.

Flight 208, a charter carrying 118 passengers and eight crew members, was flying from Guadalajara, Mexico, to Chicago when the pilot requested the diversion because of the injuries, said Angela Thomas, a spokeswoman for the Indianapolis-based carrier."""

Do most airlines fly through thunderstorms?
I can see this maybe happenening on approach or during takeoff, but while in cruise, I would suggest the airline to consider flying around Thunderstorms....

Knowing ATA, the flight was late and the company wanted the jet at Chicago as soon as possible. Knowing this, the pilots flew "through" the weather. Instead of losing a few dollars due to late arriving traffic (so the jet could safely fly around weather) the airline has to take a bad PR hit.

**note -- Knowigng how wonderful the news media can be, I would like say that I did consider the fact that the AP could have sensationalized...



 
searpqx
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:10 am

I haven't seen the news report, but did it specifically say they flew through a T-storm? It could easily have been clear air turbulance, which no one is immune to.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
ZID
Posts: 292
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:48 am

Flying "through" a thunderstorm my butt! Even the cheesiest and cheapest fly-by-night airlines (Sunworld, the current Pan Am, etc...) avoid thunderstorms regardless of the delay. I've never seen an airliner intentionally pass through a thunderstorm. The ATA flight was flying near an area of thunderstorms when they encountered the turbulence.

In my ten years of pushing planes I've seen every airline (American, Delta, United, etc...) experience an incident with turbulence where they were forced to divert because of injuries.

Of course if the idiots in the back would just stay buckled while seated then none of these incidents would incur serious injuries.
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
FrequentFlyKid
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:51 am

I would caution you to jumping to conclusions too quickly. No pilot is going to risk the lives of every passenger and crew member, including his own, and fly through a thunderstorm in order to avoid a delay.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:57 am

Knowing ATA, the flight was late and the company wanted the jet at Chicago as soon as possible. Knowing this, the pilots flew "through" the weather. Instead of losing a few dollars due to late arriving traffic (so the jet could safely fly around weather) the airline has to take a bad PR hit.

You could just as easily be describing American Airlines and the infamous Little Rock MD-80 crash.

"The flight was late, and the pilot wanted to be on the ground as soon as possible. Knowing this, the pilots flew "between" the weather, shooting a narrow window between thunderheads to sneak into LIT." (Trouble is, those mischievous thunderheads moved faster than the pilots thought, and blew the plane off the runway and killed 12 people).

"Instead of losing a few dollars and a half-hour of flying time by diverting to MEM or TUL, (so the jet could safely fly around weather) the airline had to take a bad PR hit."

So let's be careful before casting aspersion on ATA.

Jim


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Delta737
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:08 am

No one flies thru thunderstorms. Sometimes you may have to penetrate a line in order to get out of an area of weather.

No one would intentionally fly through a storm because of being late or whatever.

Also, some of the worst turbulence is clear air turbulence. With a thunderstorm, you have some advance warning of turbulent conditions.

With clear air turbulence, you're cruising happily along at FL 310 and then BAM it hits. No warning, FA's serving in the aisles and passengers standing in line for the lavoratory all get rocked.

Doug Taylor
jetcareers.com
 
Fly_ATA
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:10 am

Stupid Quote

Tue Apr 23, 2002 7:59 am

"they were probably late and trying to get the plane to chicago"

What kind or moronic person would type that ?

No crew from ANY airline is going to fly "through" a storm!

1.) your an idiot if you go by what the media says!

2.) ATA has one of the best safety records in the industry.

What a stupid post this, I would be embarrassed to make such an accusation!
 
Guest

RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:32 am

Let's start a pool...how much money will ATA be sued for and for what?

My guess: they will be sued for $1 million per passenger for not making sure that the passengers listened to the safety announcement, AND that the F/As didn't constantly check to see if all the seatbelts were fastened throughout the flight.
 
UAL-Fan
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:48 am

ATA and LUV are the only majors making money. I don't think they are so worried about loosing money they would fly and aircraft into a storm. That's stupid on anyones part to even say.

I just flew into Denver and even though it's clear as a bell here it was one of the rockiest approaches I have ever felt. The wings looked as if they would snap off the plane! You don't need to fly into a storm to experience that kind of turbulance.
 
ZID
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:33 am

RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:14 am

$1 million per? Are you kidding? In the good old USA of today where incompetence is rewarded in every aspect of society; where intelligence, talent and responsibility are discouraged at every turn. No, no my friend, unabashed stupidity will be rewarded with far more than $1 million per person in this case. Oh sure the ones that only received a concussion from their foray into stupidity may only receive a few hundred thousand dollars, but for those lucky enough to actually break some bones...well, those fortunate souls are sure to be rewarded with at least $2 million from a carefully chosen jury of clueless morons.
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
chepos
Posts: 5940
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:19 am

The good old American media sensationalizing events dealing with the aviation industry.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
LV
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:47 am

I heard that they were actually trying to vector around a storm. I live about 75 miles NW of where they encountered that turblance, and given when they landed in St. Louis and what they said their position was at the time of the incident, some nasty weather had moved through there but it had gone through by that time, they just hit an air pocket, no one is immune from that, I am sure your precious CO has even run into that problem before.

By the way, blaming ATA for this is like blaming DL for discovering windshear in Dallas
 
SegmentKing
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Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:10 pm

Frontier is also posting profits too....

In regards to the weather, it's a bit rought around midwest thunderstorms and you need to be at least 100 miles away to avoid turbulence...

the issue with this is, you can't *see* or *predict* turbulence...

ATA won't take a major fall for this.... just an act of God...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
CoAir@IAH
Topic Author
Posts: 267
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:19 pm

OK, OK, OK...

My bad...given the vast majority of responses, the media got a misqoute or simply sensationalized.

I don't guess they did fly through the thunderstop on purpose.

It just irks me that the media would falsely report such a thing (although, sadly, I'm not surprised!

Andrew
 
CoAir@IAH
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:29 am

RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:24 pm

But don't you see how one can draw false conclusions (blaming ATA) by what is said in the papers?

Just an honest mistake,

p.s. - And no, my "precious" CO is not immune, I have been on several rides where I thought we were going to die due to lightning strikes and 1,000-ft. drops.

 
Boeing Nut
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:43 pm

OK folks, here's the story:

I worked that emergency at STL. I talked to the copilot, and he stated that they were indeed being vectored around a weather system. They were at 37,000 ft when they hit this turbulence 80 west of STL. You can fly around a thunderstorm and in some cases still get rocked. As was the case here. Ten people went to the hospital, and the first three that were taken off were in bad shape. A bio-harard team had to come in to clean up the aircraft.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Wed Apr 24, 2002 4:01 am

did they fill up all the air sickness bags?

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
hawkeye2
Posts: 227
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Thu Apr 25, 2002 4:29 am

Looks like even the normally accurate Justplanes.com couldn't get it right:

http://www.justplanes.com/AirlineNews7T2.html, look at "Accidents and Incidents" on the bottom.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:09 am

Hawkeye2,

Oh, they got it right alright. I was just "CYA" by saying they were getting vectored around a weather system. I just didn't clarify whether or not they actually stayed clear of the thunderstorm. (which I still will not)  Innocent
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Fly_ATA
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:10 am

RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Thu Apr 25, 2002 8:15 am

AGAIN.....they did not fly "through" the storm. I know for a fact. How do i know? thats not important just the fact that I do. End of story.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: ATA...Bush League Or Just A Mishap?

Thu Apr 25, 2002 10:08 am

Fly_ATA,

Were you a crew member on this flight?
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.