boeing767-300
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Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Fri Apr 26, 2002 3:13 am

Why has AF got so many types of Aircraft, they have
A310 CF6-80A3s
A319 CFM56s
A320 CFM56s
A321 CFM56s
A330 CF6-80E1A3
A340 CFM56s

B737-300 CFM56s
B737-500 CFM56s
B747-200 CF6-50E2
B747-400 CF6-80C2B1F
B767-300 CF6-80C2B6F
B777-200(ER) GE90-90B &GE90-94B

In fact everything they have excepting three 767s with PWs

Why is Air France such a loyal General Electric customer, they must love them? If they could have they would have had GE powered 727s and 747-100s!!!!
 
JMO-777
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Fri Apr 26, 2002 3:28 am

Hi,

perhaps they only have GE because its much cheaper to build up one "engineproducer-maintenance-center".And perhaps they get some "nice" discounts for the engines.
And perhaps they've bought GE because there is the prejudice that the french people hate everything "BRITISH" and so AF was forced to order GE.

GreetZ,
Jan
~~~ Fly with a Triple Seven and you feel like in heaven ~~~
 
aamd11
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:01 am

JMO-777, it wouldnt suprise me if they ordered engines for that reason... the fact that RR engines are british, and the fact GE ahs a FRENCH partner in the form of SNECMA... so seen as SNECMA have a role to play in the making of GE engines... being French, Air France buys their engines... simple as that... thats how it works for everything else...
 
AFa340-300E
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Some Explanations...

Fri Apr 26, 2002 6:19 am

Hello,

Air France has long had close ties with General Electric. This has some valuable advantages; Air France was the launch customer of the GE90-94B (93,700lb) for the 777-200ER and the CF6-80E1A3 (72,000lb) on the A330-200. In both cases Air France was the main customer behind the thrust uprate; the decision of GE not to push the GE90 behind the -92B was even a factor that decided BA to go with the Trent 895.


There are some information about Air France, the GE90-90B and -94B on my website. (in the technique section of The Air France 777s article).


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Best regards,
Alain Mengus
Air Transport Business
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:46 pm

Thanks very much AFa340-300E I enjoyed your article on Air France 777/A340.

It is very interesting that AF uses both in their fleet and this is unusual, especially considering AI and Toulouse.

With regard to the above post "And perhaps they've bought GE because there is the prejudice that the french people hate everything "BRITISH" and so AF was forced to order GE.".. I find amazing because if that was true and I don't necessarily think that is, then I find it very interesting that AF was and is VERY committed to Boeing 777 now and in the future... more so in 777 than A340. That I do find amazing, Good on Air France for having both. I reckon a Lufthansa 777 would have looked 'massive' (in looks & size)and would have been a great assett in their fleets for long range/payload


 
luzezito
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:53 pm

JMO-777, why don't you take example on AFa340-300E and stop wasting broadband with your useless French vs Brits stuff? It's aviation here
Quoniam Vita Brevis Est, Propera!
 
JMO-777
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 12:15 am

Hi Luzezito,
It was not my aim to start a useless, F vs. UK "war"!!!

;]

GreetZ,
Jan

~~~ Fly with a Triple Seven and you feel like in heaven ~~~
 
luzezito
Posts: 250
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 12:20 am

It's ok! Sorry if I sounded rude. It's just that those "vs" arguments suck. Read AFa340-300E's articles and they are very enlightening
Quoniam Vita Brevis Est, Propera!
 
Guest

RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 12:28 am

This is one of the reasons AF did not go for the A340-500/600 because it did not have a GE engine as an option. Perhaps down the road Airbus may add the PW4000 and GE CF6 series as options on the A340-500/600 to get airlines like AF and maybe NW to order them.
 
FDXmech
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 1:28 am

Perhaps it's because AF feels GE puts out a superior engine that fits its needs better than PW or RR.

If that's the case, I concur.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 4:45 am

After GE fixed the problem with the front fan on the GE90, it has been a very reliable engine in 777 service. Why do you think two of the longest flights on the 777 is LAX-CAN-LAX on CZ and EWR-HKG-EWR on CO, both flown by GE90-powered 772ER's?

Indeed, I think by 2010 expect the 777-300ER to be quite popular as 747 replacements.
 
boeing767-300
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 2:58 pm

Ray Chuang is right the GE90 has settled down to a very reliable engine which is probably the oppisite to the RR Trent..(Malaysian Blow up Perth?SIA probs/Delta SA) to name a few that spring to mind.

GE make a fine engine and it is no wonder they dominate the market!!!
 
AFa340-300E
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Air France 777 : CDG-SCL

Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:36 pm

Hello,

RayChuang, you could add the following one to your list of longest 777 flights:

Air France's former CDG-SCL non-stop (now via EZE again);

AF420 CDG-SCL 10:15 18:35 Duration: 14:20 – Wednesday, Friday and Sunday
AF421 SCL-CDG 21:50 17:40 Duration: 13:50 – Thursday, Saturday and Monday


With 14:20 scheduled block-block time for the westbound leg, it became the airline’s longest ever non-stop route (11,664.2km, 7,247.8mi, 6,298.3nm). The SCL flights operate with a westbound daylight flight pattern1.



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Best regards,
Alain Mengus
Air Transport Business

1 For those who wonder what a westsbound dailyflight pattern is: go the Airlines Networks section of my website.
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:07 pm

When Airbus started, the industry was dominated by two American aircraft manufacturers and and one American engine manufactuer---P&W. GE was nowhere to be found in the commerical market. They briefly dabbled in buidling commercial jet engines for the CV880 and CV990. The Convair jets failed in the market place which GE contributed to the unpopularity because their engines were less than reliable. When Airbus proposed the A300, neither P&W nor RR would allow their Continental brethens to join their engine program. But GE did. France's SNECMA and Germany's MTU were partners on the CF6 that powered the A300. The CF6 partnership with SNECMA grew into the hugely successful CFM partnership. Only until recently, GE/CFM engines have always been the launch engine on nearly all Airbus models.

The long-term relationship that GE has with SNECMA inevitably played a role in GE/CFM's strong presence in Air France's fleet.
 
tsentsan
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:11 pm

AFa340-300E,

I have you say, your article is certainly a very interesting read. I've recommended this article to a couple of my friends and I have to thank you for such beneficial information.

Tsentsan
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ben88
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sat Apr 27, 2002 8:31 pm

Great site Alain!

Sorry we couldn't get together while I was in Paris. Too busy with class!
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Air France: So Many Types A/C So Loyal GE

Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:31 pm

Actually, the CFM56 project was a case of very lucky timing.

Originally, the engine (then known as the M56) was proposed by SNECMA (I think) for an improved version of the Dassault Mercure airliner. While SNECMA developed the front fan, they needed a partner to develop the engine core.

This is where GE stepped in. They proposed using the engine core from the F101 engine used on the B-1 bomber; when President Nixon signed an agreement allowing that engine core for commercial use, GE was able to partner with SNECMA to create what became the CFM56 engine.

I think today the CFM56 is the most widely-used high-bypass ratio turbofan in the world, thanks to the success of the 737-300 to 737-900 programs, the A320 Family program and the A340-200/300 program.

This is why AF chose the 777-200ER; the GE90-94B used on AF's 772ER fleet contains a large number of SNECMA components, just like the CFM56-7's used on AF's A340 fleet.