cba
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Hawaiian's 767s

Sun Apr 28, 2002 6:24 am

What made Hawaiian choose the 763ER as a DC-10 replacement? It is considerably smaller than the DC-10. The 764 would've been a better choice. Why didn't Hawaiian order the 764?
 
aamd11
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:52 am

763s are cheaper... they are readily available from leasing companies...
dont they have a slightly greater range on them too, over the 764??
I think it was simply a matter of cost and size.
Maybe they needed to go a little smaller than the DC-10 to keep yields/load factors high.. a 777 would have been way too big... 763s are relatively cheap and available...

Maybe there is another reason, but i wouldnt know.

AA MD11
 
scottysair
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:08 am

Well, if they want get orders B767-400 and B777 aircraft as for Hawaiian Air. They need to be save as for money get new airplanes by B767-400 or B777-200 replace by DC-10 aircraft. I think way to better get more passengers into coach class and first class too get into HNL and OGG flight. Well, that is exactly I do think about flight will be full!! Can anyone who know about want get ordered by new aircraft!!! Thanks, Guys!
 
sllevin
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun Apr 28, 2002 9:05 am

I'm don't have a specific answer, but here's some things to ponder..

1) the per-mile costs for the 767 family is lower than the DC-10's. That's why the move to the twinjet.

2) While the 764 offers slightly greater capacity (about 20 seats), it's not clear that the cost per mile are better -- in fact, traditionally, longer range aircraft have worse per mile costs on shorter hauls because they have to be built more robustly for higher MTOW.

3) I'd be interested in knowning the capacity of Hawaiian's 763's... but I bet it is aroun 270 or so.

Steve
 
sllevin
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun Apr 28, 2002 9:08 am

Okay, I'm a moron. Well, not entirely, except that the 764's have less range than the 763's, according to Boeing's site.

So, in short, it appears you're carrying quite a bit more weight per passenger on each flight (that is, total aircraft weight / total number of pax), and that is, indeed, less efficient.

Steve
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun Apr 28, 2002 11:07 am

You guys pretty much hit the nail right on the head. There are many more factors to think about in a replacement airplane than a one for one exchange of seats. Aircraft acquisition cost, operating cost, route structure etc all come into the picture.

We bought the 767-300's because they were the best bargain for size, cost, maintenance, and so forth. In addition things like maintenance contracts and training contracts also enter into the final cost. Even if we don't carry as many people per plane, all we have to do is increase frequency to make up the difference. We've already done some of that now. With the DC-10's we had three daily LAX - HNL round trips. Starting this summer we move to four with the 767's. In the past we had eleven weekly SEA - HNL trips. Now with the 767 we are running one daily SEA - HNL and one daily SEA OGG (maui) trip for a total of fourteen weekly SEA trips. Smaller planes, but more frequency. And the good part is if the loads fall off we aren't losing as much money per plane as we would have with the DC-10.

If we had bought the 767-400 we would have had about 50 more seats per plane, but at a much higher acquisition cost, higher operating cost, and a bigger exposure to loss if the flight isn't full.

As for our seating capacity, it is 18 F/C, 234 Coach for a total of 252.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
AlaskaMVP
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun Apr 28, 2002 11:14 am

Another thing to point out is the other plane considered by Hawaiian was the 757, even smaller than the 763, obviously they were looking for frequency and more point to point routes. I'm still hoping to to see direct PDX-OGG!

HAL, btw, moved my vacation up into May, will be doing PDX-LIH & OGG-PDX on your fine airline in a few short weeks, very excited about experiencing the first class on the DC-10 before it goes away...
 
KKMolokai
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Mon Apr 29, 2002 3:44 am

AA begins non-stop 757-200 service between LAX-LIH in May ... An alternate way to the islands from the west coast.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Mon Apr 29, 2002 6:13 am

I know it's been said before, but where are the 767s that Hawaiian is flying comming from? Are they new a/c, leased, used etc? Just curious
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
dutchjet
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Mon Apr 29, 2002 6:43 am

Also, Hawaiian is taking a mix of new and used 763s, from various leasing companies; as they wished to standardize on one type, and not many 764s are available, they settled on the 763 which was a good move. Also, as mentioned, they can increase the number of departures and better compete with other airlines while not increasing the total amount of seats in many of the markets that they serve.

I still think that we may see the 752 in HA colors in the future, it is common rated witht he 763 and is a very effecient aircraft for "thinner" routes from Hawaii to mainland cities such as Portland, Las Vegas, Phoenix and smaller California airports.
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:59 am

Our first three 767's were new, leased through Ansett leasing. The next four (that we are getting right now) are older planes leased from LTU. The next nine are new, leased on alternate planes from Ansett and Boeing finance.

In the end we'll have four used and twelve new 767's. Of course there are rumors of more 767's and new 757's too. Hope so!

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:43 pm

Speaking of which, I saw an HA 767-300(ER) a couple of weeks ago when I saw the A340-600 prototype fly from SFO. They HA 763ER's definitely look very good.  Big thumbs up
 
ha2vegas
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Tue Apr 30, 2002 1:56 am

HAL--

FYI there will be only 3 daily non-stops LAX-HNL on Hawaiian. The 4th was canceled for some reason, probably not enough aircraft.
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sat May 11, 2002 4:17 pm

Actually, those flights weren't cancelled. Flights 17 & 18 begin operating LAX/HNL/LAX on June 15th as originally planned, making four round trips daily on that route.

The schedule to HNL (out of LAX) will now be flt 1 at 0855, flt 17 at 1010, flt 3 at 1205, and flt 9 at 1735. Also, flt 5 leaves for Maui at 1115. Gonna be busy at terminal 2!

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
jsmith
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sat May 11, 2002 5:38 pm

HAL - it is Ansett Worldwide, not Ansett leasing that is leasing a number of B767 a/c to Hawaiian. There is no such company called Ansett leasing.

Thks
 
ha2vegas
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun May 12, 2002 1:23 am

HAL, if you take a look at the OAG you'll see that almost all of flights 17/18 are discontinued. The only ones left are the few whose loads prevented combining pax with the other LAX-HNL flights. Unless the OAG and CRS systems are not yet updated, which doesn't make a lot of sense if you're trying to increase ASMs...
 
Herbman
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun May 12, 2002 2:26 am

This morning I saw the Hawaiian one with new livery sprayed on at the LTU maintenance hangar in DUS. (former LTU's 767)

Regards
Sebastian
 
aq737
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun May 12, 2002 4:04 am

Are the 763s coming with the 777 style livery?

Mahalo,
Aq737
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun May 12, 2002 4:10 pm

HA2Vegas,
All I know is that our trips for June came out for us to bid on, and flights 17/18 are being flown as a daily turn starting the 15th, using DC-10's. A quick check showed the same thing on the OAG website.

Aq737: what do you mean by 777 livery? We have never had triple sevens.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
miami1
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RE: Hawaiian's 767s

Sun May 12, 2002 9:51 pm

I think Aq737 meant 777 style interior.....

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