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Airbus Widebodies In USA

Mon Sep 13, 1999 9:59 am

Eastern and AA flew(fly) the A300. PanAm and Delta flew the A310. Northwest, TWA, and USAirways have a total of 43 A330-300s on order, but other than that widebody Airbuses never made it huge the way others did. There never has, and probably never will be an A340 flying in the US. The A320 family has been wildly successful in the US, but the widebody family never were, with about 250 or more examples flying today(this of course excludes the A321 which has no solid orders in the books as of now). I on't understand why this is. The A330/340 has been hugely successful throughout the world, even now in the slow economies of South America. I would like to see some more A330s and A340s flying in the US, but this is probably just wishful thinking, especially since the 777 is popular with the only airlines that can afford them.
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Mon Sep 13, 1999 10:02 am

FedEx also operates a great deal of A300s and A310s.
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Mon Sep 13, 1999 10:13 am


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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Mon Sep 13, 1999 10:45 am

1) USAirways has 7 orders, 9 options, and 14 conditional options for A330-300
2) Northwest has 16 A330-300 on order, but has deferred deliveries on these. Maybe they will also order -200's later, both 200 and 300 for DC-10 replacements?

RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Mon Sep 13, 1999 11:54 am

I visted AmWest headquarters last Thursday and I was told America West is considering the A330 and A321.
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Mon Sep 13, 1999 12:25 pm


RE: HP A330

Mon Sep 13, 1999 12:29 pm

An America West A330 would be a great looking airplane! Scott, did you hear this from a somewhat reliable source? I was aware that they were interested in the A321, but the A330 rumor is news to me.

It seems like HP is floundering a little right now. I think they may be calculating their next move. If they decide to invade Hawaii, I think we could definitely see a small A330 order, especially since I believe they'll get rid of the 757s in favor of the A321.

RE: HP A330

Tue Sep 14, 1999 7:50 am

We'll all definitely see something happening at HP in the near future...

About the A330, that's the truth. It is being considered.... Just the other day, there was an Airbus rep (have no idea who) giving a presentation to several members of management! Scott, why were you at headquarters? E-mail me and we'll talk, maybe we met!

Oh yea, 24291, the A321 will replace the 757 when we decide to place an order.
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Tue Sep 14, 1999 2:52 pm

Pan Am operated both the A300 and the A310
UPS Pilot
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Tue Sep 14, 1999 11:31 pm

UPS will recieve the first of 30 A300's in July of 2000. They have 30 on order with an option for another 30
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:43 am

Remember DHL - they will soon be starting A300 service in the US replacing the DC8s (the DC8s will be moved to their European routes)
I've flown on 9V-SPK.

RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Thu Sep 16, 1999 4:08 am

Continental operated A-300's from around '85-92. The feet was up to 23 a/c before being retired. The first 6 a/c were ordered from Airbus (3 were late model white tails orig with Singapore and 3 were built for CO) the next 17 a/c were all ex Eastern.
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Pan Am And Delta Domestic A310s

Fri Sep 17, 1999 12:11 am

PA started flying A310s in late 1984 but it was not until winter 87/88 that they started flying domestic routes, especially JFK- MIA for the tourist season. They brought over a few series -200s that winter from the Berlin route where the capacity wasn't needed at that time of year.

I remember what a thrill it was to see the A310 domestically, and it seemed to take so long! You could also grab some DL A310s in 1992/93 on routes like DFW and ATL to JFK, probably others.

Sadly, we haven't seen many A310s here. I think it's Airbus' sexiest design yet.
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To: CV880 Re:A310's

Fri Sep 17, 1999 2:55 am

I absolutly agree. I think the A310 looks like it means business especially due to it's own wing, used on no other aircraft. Aesthetics are a tough thing to describe, but Airbus got it right on that one. I also like the A319 and the new A340-500/600. They just look good. As far as Boeing goes, I really like the 777, the 747 (of course), and the new 767-400ER.
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Fri Sep 17, 1999 5:36 am

Boeing has locked up 3 of the largest US carriers with exclusive supplier agreements: Delta, Continental and American. In return for flexibility in delivery positions, options and orders, and pricing, Boeing got an agreement from all 3 that they would purchase only Boeing planes.

That doesn't leave much left in the US for Airbus. Airbus has had great success with the 320 family at Northwest and United, but with the above 3 off limits, and United's comittment to Boeing widebodies, I don't see a whole lot of widebody opportunity for Airbus.

On the subject of the A300/310, is it true there is no cockpit commonality between these planes and any other plane in the Airbus fleet? I'm told this is a major reason why the 767 has been dominant in its category.
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Fri Sep 17, 1999 6:11 am

While you're right about what you said, I feel I should point out that the Delta-Boeing contract was nullified due to European complaints. So Delta isn't legally bound to purchace only Boeing.

Think that had an impact on Boeing buying MD?

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RE: Strange US Airbus Operators

Fri Sep 17, 1999 6:56 am

Back in the mid-80's, Northeastern International and Capitol Airways operated a fleet of A300's.
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Sat Sep 18, 1999 4:14 am

About market perspectives for the Airbus wide-bodies in the USA: Apart of USAirways - which is already known to be a future A330 operator -, Northwest is the most likely to operate A330/340s. Northwest has orders to 40 (?) A330s, but they have been deferred.

TWA also has orders for 16 (?) A330s, but I doubt they will keep them: they are right now ordering and receiving more B767, so an A330 order seems insensate. I would bet they will order some B764 in the future.
UAL have also been quoted: United could eventually order A330s (332s and also launch the 331s version) to replace the totally or part of the 762s and 763s, but there is nothing official about that. Although they would not offer commonality with the B777 fleet, the planes would offer the benefits of the commonality with the A320.
American, on the other side, said they could not follow their exclusivity contract with Boeing if this manufacturer don't offer RR engines for the B777s new versions. It means that AA could - eventually - order RR-engined Airbuses, such the A330-200 and A340-500, but I think it's very improbable. So, Northwest and USAirways seem to be the most probable A330/340 operators in USA. Apart of those, there are also some comments about America West interest on 332s but, once again, nothing official.

More information and opinions can be found on some topics already discussed here.


TP343, São Paulo, Brazil.

To SEA: yes, Airbus has 2 families concerning cockpit: the 300/310 one and all the others together (319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 342, 343, 348 and in the future the 318, 331, 345 and 345) in other family. About the 767 (except the 764), I'm not sure, but I think they don't have really an extensive commonality with any other Boeing product.

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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Sat Sep 18, 1999 4:32 am

It is my understanding and I could be wrong that the 737NG, 777 and 767-400 all share a common cockpit or something to that extent? As for United ordering A330s forget about it. Most likely 767-400s to allow for parts commonality with the 777-200 and 747-400. Northwest will probably start receiving their A330s in 2010 when their DC-10s are being held together with crazy glue!
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
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767 And 757 Cockpits Identical

Sat Sep 18, 1999 6:26 am

The 767 and 757 have effectively the same cockpit. In fact, those types were the first, or one of the first, 'families' to have a common cockpit/type rating. I remember talking to a DL 767 captain. After 767 training his license stated that he was rated on the 757 even though had never seen one!
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RE: 767 And 757 Cockpits Identical

Sat Sep 18, 1999 5:37 pm

The cockpits of the 757-200 and 767-200/300 are identical. Different size but the same instrument layout. Also, I read in a Delta release a whille back that it only takes a few days to convert a 767/757 pilot to a 777 rating - much less time than to train a pilot "from scratch" on the 777. Although the dual rating isn't automatic, if you've ever been in a 767/757 cockpit you'd be right at home in the 777. The main panel is a bit different, but the locations of all the other switches and dials is more alike than dissimilar.

However, some dual ratings are automatic even between planes that have completely dissimilar cockpits. The 737-200 is a lot different than the 737-3/4/500, which is completely different than the 737NG series, but all those are under the same rating.
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RE: Airbus Widebodies In USA

Sat Sep 18, 1999 6:13 pm

Hi! From my point of view the A340 is not a plane for US market, the range and the features fit more for a long haul airliner and for services long distance, that's something that's not possible in USA, but the A330 and specially the 200 model is going to be really sucessfull in USA, its a brand new design and can compete hard with the 757/767 family, I'm sure some big american airlines are looking to see how the A330 relies there and see how Northwest and TWA go, and I'm sure if they succeed more A330 will go to USA!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
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RE: CX747, CV880 And BrianG.

Sat Sep 18, 1999 9:40 pm

Hello CX747!

Unless Boeing makes an extensive face-lift on the B767-200 and -300 planes, the A330-100 and -200 are going to be the only modern 190-230 passengers/ 7000-12000 km range planes avaliable.

So, don't "forget about" A330-100 and -200 in UAL colours. As I said before, if by one side they would not offer commonality with the B747 and B777 fleets, on the other side they would offer it with their - big enough - A319 and A320 fleets. And more: The B767-200 operated by UAL were the first to be delivered by Boeing, which means that they are 15-20 years old; actually, they are the oldest in the market. They need "replacement" and not "complement".

Also, UAL have routes where a B767-300 is too big. In Latin America there are many examples. Why would it be replaced for a even bigger plane (the B767-400)? Remember that modernization doesn't mean increase of seats/ range. It's just watch to the example you told us about BA: they want to modernize the fleet by cutting by the half the seat offert (from B757-200 to B717-200)

So, don't exclude so easily the possibility of see A330-100/-200 in UAL colours.

CV880 and BrianG, thanks for the 757/767 commom cockpit information! Just one question: what about the B757-300? Does it feature the same cockpit of a 752 or a 764/772?


TP343, São Paulo, Brazil.

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