FATFlyer
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SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sat May 04, 2002 2:13 am

Preliminary numbers for 2001 have SFO experiencing the largest % and ranking drop among the world's busiest airports. SFO experienced an almost 16% drop in passengers in 2001 versus 2000. That dropped SFO from 9th in the world in 2000 to 15th in 2001. The drop also means DEN, IAH, PHX, LAS, and MSP are all now busier than SFO.

Media Coverage:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/05/03/MN43646.DTL

2001 Rankings
http://www.airports.org/traffic/busiest.html
2000 Rankings
http://www.airports.org/traffic/passengers.html

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sat May 04, 2002 4:28 am

That won't help them get the new runways they desperatly need.

Instead of seizing the opportunity to build NOW, while traffic is down, the public will say that traffic does not warrant new runways.

Fwiw, I avoid SFO at all costs whenever I can, I'm not the coveted business traveller, but I would much rather travel by car the extra distance to OAK or Sacramento (SAC?) simply to avoide the inveitable delays @ SFO.

Carpe Diem @ SFO? hardly, eco-freaks field day. Shame.

BlatantEcho
They're not handing trophies out today
 
hawkeye2
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sat May 04, 2002 4:40 am

Hope this doesn't turn into a NorCal/SoCal flame war... such is not my intention, although I am a true SoCaler at heart This is not flamebait, but just my opinion, please don't delete this!

But face it, from the perspective of the airlines, SFO has serious weaknesses compared to LAX.

* LAX has good weather year-around, and runways that are properly separated unlike SFO, so delays are rare. Everytime there's so much as a big cloud in the vicinity of SFO, it seems that every flight gets delayed, and ripples throughout the nation.

* LAX has 2 1/2 the population of the Bay Area => more O/D traffic.

* the LA area economy is less focused in the tech industry, so it took less of a hit during the dot-com implosion.

* LAX has airport management with a clue (SFO's new international terminal: signs and announcements in English only in an International Terminal?! Rent for stores/restaurants 3 times the level of the old international terminal, for about the same traffic level?!)

* LAX is not singly dominated by UA, even though they are the largest carrier, unlike SFO (and DEN, IAD, and ORD to some extent) so not really affected as much by UA's misfortunes.
 
travelin man
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sat May 04, 2002 4:49 am

Hawkeye2 --
I agree with you, and because of those reasons many Asia/Pacific airlines have chosen to make LAX their Trans-Pacific gateway to the US. None of these airlines have presence at SFO, but do at LAX:

Air New Zealand
Air Pacific
Air Tahiti Nui
China Eastern
China Southern
Malaysia Airlines
QANTAS
Thai Airlines

You can build a nice new international terminal, but it doesn't necessarily mean the airlines will come.
 
FATFlyer
Topic Author
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sat May 04, 2002 7:08 am

Hawkeye2,

LAX's ontime record is more perception than reality. When you check the statistics you see that delays at LAX are only slightly better than SFO. Those of us on short hops such as out of FAT end up seeing the delays at either airport.

For 2001 Totals of all flights at SFO and LAX
Late departures:
San Francisco (SFO) 21.82%
Los Angeles (LAX) 21.72%

Late arrivals:
San Francisco (SFO) 28.62%
Los Angeles (LAX) 26.08%

source
http://www.bts.gov/oai/on_time_2001/html/major_airport_delay_rankings_2001_departures.html
http://www.bts.gov/oai/on_time_2001/html/major_airport_delay_rankings_2001_arrivals.html

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
SJC-Alien
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sat May 04, 2002 8:56 am

...ever since K-Mart pulled out,,I bet that hurt SFO Big-Time...

SJC Alien
 
BA
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sat May 04, 2002 9:04 am

FATFlyer,

I posted an article about SFO's rank dropping on the forums about 2 weeks ago.

If you missed it, it might interest you: http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%7E33%7E529909,00.html?search=filter

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FATFlyer
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sat May 04, 2002 11:27 am

BA,

Thanks. April 16 fell during a busy time for me on campus prepping lectures to give. Your original post heading only mentioned DEN so I probably skipped it. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
hawkeye2
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 1:26 am

Sort of OT (but who knows -- it might be anothe rreason why SFO is declining  Smile ), but I've always wondered why at SFO, there are no fast-food chains, like McDs, Burger King, etc (besides the "secret" Burger King in the CO terminal).

At almost every other airport in the US, there's at least one fast-food place, at least those I remember.

It might give the current overpriced, terrible food vendors at SFO some competition.

Was this by order of airport management; did the current food vendors want exclusivity or something?
 
FATFlyer
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 2:31 am

In the International Terminal, SFO wanted local restaurants to create something not seen in every airport.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/08/19/BU71073.DTL

I'm not sure about the domestic terminals.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
macmac76
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 3:32 am

SFO's ranking among the airports in the US is due to the fact that SFO is not a hub and spoke airport. It's mostly a "final destination" city that's why it's ranking is not as high up right now as IAH, or DEN, or PHX...those airports are HUB airports and most passengers connect to other flights. SFO, considering that SF is a tourist destination, tend to be the final destination...maybe a few connections to HNL or Asia, but not like ATL or DFW. I still love the new international terminal...such a work of art. I am sure SFO will bounce back in terms of traffic and hopefully airlines such as Alitalia or Swiss will come back. And nothing beats the bay approach over the water and over San Mateo bridge!
 
Delta15
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 4:37 am

Where is the secret burger king in the CO terminal? I walked up and down those stairs checking every door looking for the Burger King they said was there. My guess there is no secret burger king....
 
Guest

RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 7:02 am

As you go from the CO ticket counter towards the gates, right behind the ticket counter is an elevator. There is a small (maybe 6in x 6in) Burger King sign next to the elevator doors. Just take the elevator up to the next level and follow the signs down the hall. It is there for employees but is open to anyone who can find it!


Richard

 
ContinentalFan
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankin

Sun May 05, 2002 7:48 am

Oh yeah, I remember seeing that sign. Didn't know it was such a big deal. I'll have to check it out  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I remember AUS is the same way w/ restaurants, but at least the restaurants there are reasonably priced and pretty good (pretty much the same stuff that I ate when I lived in Austin, in fact).

Mike.
 
9V-SVE
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 7:49 am

I love the SFO approach in FS. Over that bridge-what's its name?
 
roguetrader
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 9:11 am

What kind of cultural police manage SFO anyway? Did they hire the French for this job? What about the rest of us who actually LIKE the dependability (and low price) of McDonald's or Burger King when we're on the road? But no, don't let the market decide, the airport management has decided for us that we need to experience more culturally sensitive food.

I think a big reason for SFO's drop off in rank is the lackluster Asian situation. When traffic declines, consolidation occurs, and this has obviously taken place at LAX and not SFO. If Asia ever booms again, SFO will as well. But, for now, its been reduced to more of a O&D airport for local traffic.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Guest

RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 9:48 am

You have to be from SF to understand the politics in that city. It is much different than anywhere else in the US. Speaking of fast food, for the longest time in the 70's there were no chain fast food resturants in SF. They fought for the longest time to keep them out. I still think there may still be a ban on drive through windows in the city of SF however. As for the airport food, the resturants in the new internation terminal are great and prices are reasonable. The resturants had to agree to charge only "street" prices for food in the terminal. The rest of the airport unfortunately is another story.

Richard Silagi
 
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RayChuang
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 12:13 pm

One of my concerns is that if SFIA authorities don't find a way to get back the international traffic, we could end up with a situation where there will be a big drop in international flights and SFO's new International Terminal becomes an expensive white elephant.

Oh, you'll still get the Asian international flights but don't be surprised many flights to Europe will end up going to LAX instead, force passengers to fly to LAX to catch these flights.
 
airworthy
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 3:22 pm

Keep in mind a large part of this drop is due to domestic cutbacks, most of all by United, the carrier with a market share traditionally hovering above 55% here.

After 9/11 (and aftermath of the -here we go again- the "dot-com implosion") UA's SFO operation was reduced drastically from about ~240 flights to ~170 flights by summertime. That's a cut of about a third of the UA flights!

A lot of this has to do with the elimination of United Shuttle and transfer of some of those former routes to United Express-SkyWest.
 
Ezra
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Sun May 05, 2002 11:08 pm


Speaking hypothetically, if a carrier were either to build its own Asian network and requisite domestic feed (at LAX) or acquire another carrier's Asian network and domestic feed (at SFO), which would be the more profitable market: LAX or SFO? For what reasons?

Thanks,

Ezra.
 
MAH4546
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Mon May 06, 2002 3:36 am

Ezra, it is my understanding that San Francisco is a higher-yielding destination.
a.
 
Spark
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Mon May 06, 2002 12:58 pm

Airworthy made a valid point about SFO decline. There were two major reasons for SFO's decline.
1. United was the airline hardest hit by the recession and post 9-11 aftermath. Most of their problems came from mismanagement, but they definitely took one in the guts after 9-11. Of the United airports to take hits, SFO lead the way. Since United operates about 50% of the traffic from SFO, that was a large percentage of flights from SFO.
2. The high-tech industry was the hardest hit by the recession, and it hit the Bay Area.
Does anyone have the numbers as far as destination airports (Airports in which passengers actually begin or end the journeys, as opposed to just fly through like DEN, ATL, or the other Hub airports)? I think SFO is still very high on that list, since the Bay Area is the fourth largest metro area in the USA, and one of the top economic cities in the world.
 
airworthy
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Tue May 07, 2002 12:45 am

SFO has tremendously high yields.

Believe it or not, pre-09/11, even with half of the daily flights of ORD, UA's SFO operation generated more revenue. There are SO MANY United widebodies that go in and out of SFO every day.

Like I said, people here take for granted the plethora of United widebody service.
 
roguetrader
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Tue May 07, 2002 12:53 am

If UA cut service to a high yield market, then they were dumb. Or maybe SFO wasn't so high yield. Which is more likely the truth?

Every thread that talks about any particular city always generates a certain set of replies:

--my city is very high yield
--the planes to/from my city are always full
--airlines could operate ten 747-400s a day on route X from my city and still be full of high yield passengers
--my city is very important for airline x

SFO is a great city, probably the best looking city in the USA. But the above type of comments have lost all their meaning because everyone says them about their own city.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
airworthy
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RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

Tue May 07, 2002 1:18 am

RogueTrader--

Do some further inspection.

The reason why UA cut so much service was mainly that it cut the LOW-YIELD United Shuttle service. Some routes were transferred over to UAX. Also, SFO was/is UA's largest international gateway.

Seeing as SFO was the largest Shuttle station, it's not at all hard to figure out that a combination of the elimination of Shuttle, system-wide frequency cuts, and reduction of some unprofitable international service lead to a large reduction in UA service.

The truth is:

  • SFO IS high-yield. Why do you think UA has *2* of the largest airline lounges in the nation here? Why do you think Premiers, Premier Executives, and 1K's are a dime a dozen on all the flights here? There are so many gold boarding passes floating around one begins to wonder... is it that easy to get status on UA? No, you just have to do a lot of flying, which customers in a high-yield O&D city like SFO do.

  • Most LFs to/from SFO are very high right now. Especially coming to SFO, the loads are very packed.

  • United operates around 20 departing/arriving 777 flights, many 767 flights, and numerous (the most in its system) 747-400 flights per day out of SFO. And most of these planes go out pretty full, with the premium classes at least filling up to the brim, chock full of elite flyers, and abounding with full-fare pax.

  • SFO is very, very important for UA. Like I said, it is UA's largest international gateway, and is one of UA's largest revenue generators.


    If you want to dismiss this all as biased speculation, go ahead. I don't care. I just wanted to prove you were wrong about generalizing this thread.
  •  
    roguetrader
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 1:38 am

    I really wasn't commenting on whether or not SFO is all the things you say it is. I'm just pointing out that because everyone says the same things about their home cities, such posts are largely meaningless.

    I think facts and figures or quotes from the industry are more persuasive, such as:

    the formerly heavy concentrations of high-tech industry around United Airlines' hubs at San Francisco ... generated past levels of high-yield business for them that they will be unable to recoup...

    ---Air Transport Intelligence April 9, 2002

    kind regards,

    RogueTrader
     
    airworthy
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 1:56 am

    These contain the strongest point as well:  Smile

    After 9/11 (and aftermath of the -here we go again- the "dot-com implosion") UA's SFO operation was reduced drastically from about ~240 flights to ~170 flights by summertime...

    1. United was the airline hardest hit by the recession and post 9-11 aftermath. Most of their problems came from mismanagement, but they definitely took one in the guts after 9-11. Of the United airports to take hits, SFO lead the way. Since United operates about 50% of the traffic from SFO, that was a large percentage of flights from SFO.
    2. The high-tech industry was the hardest hit by the recession, and it hit the Bay Area (hardest).
     
    travelin man
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 3:04 am

    Actually, United slashed more flights from LAX than from any other hub (LA Times, January 2002). United cut more than 1/3 of its LAX flights, and now they basically don't use an entire Terminal (T8).

    The economics of the Bay Area (heavily tech dependent) would suggest that SFO no longer is the high-yielding nirvana that maybe it once was. And given the fact that no airlines have stepped in to fill the cuts by United at SFO (as they have at LAX) would indicate that the tech economy is far away from recovery (and even if it does recover, will SF still be the capital?).
     
    airworthy
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 3:19 am

    Travellin man--

    How have other carriers filled in the gap at LAX? I haven't seen anyone announcing much new service there since 09/11...

    On a sidenote, get those 6 or 8 nasty columns fixed in T7, United! Why can't you encase them in silver metal like the other ones?  Smile
     
    travelin man
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 3:34 am

    Ugghhh... don't even get me started on the "remodeling" job United did at LAX. Sorry, but AA has shown how it REALLY needs to be done (with an incredible T4).

    On the other note, having WN at LAX has really helped offset some of the United cuts. They've added frequencies and are now flying to MDW non-stop (hurting UA and AA's monopoly on LA-Chicago service). In addition, since United has cut its Shuttle, it's allowed WN to offer more service to places like PHX, SMF, etc.

    Internationally, airlines are expanding too, with Air Tahiti Nui routing its new 2x weekly service to CDG thru LAX. Cathay is reinstating its 2x daily service to HKG. Qantas has reinstated its direct service to JFK thru LAX. Alaska has begun non-stop service to CUN.

    Alitalia pulled out of LAX and SFO, but hopefully they'll be back.

    As you said, SFO has been hurt by a combination of its main hub airline (United) being financially strapped, and by the weakness in the Bay Area's economic force (technology). I know SFO would like to position itself as a gateway to Asia-Pacific (over LAX), but that can only be done through United (as I've said, far more international carriers use LAX as their primary Pacific gateway). In the short-term, the economic situation of United makes me think a large increase in international passengers is not going to happen for a while.
     
    airworthy
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 5:06 am

    I forgot about WN.  Smile

    I don't know where all the money UA spent on the LAX renovation went to... it was such a shoddy job, no doubt much of it was slushed away. I would have sued the contractors if I was United...

    Yeah, T4's renovAAtion is absolutely spectacular. I love the colored lighting already! And DL's T5 is holding up quite luxuriously.
     
    Ezra
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 8:59 am


    So let's say, hypothetically, that Delta purchases the Pacific routes and feed from a cash-strapped United. Would Delta be better off sticking with SFO, or setting up shop at LAX?
     
    roguetrader
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 10:51 am

    I certainly agree that UA has serious management problems, insofar as one can even say they currently are being managed at all.

    However, they have plenty of cash left. They don't have to sell routes to Delta, and I sincerely hope that airlines have learned from PA, TW, etc... that selling money making routes in an attempt to raise cash is just stupid.

    Delta certainly has a potential problem in Asia, but UA's routes aren't going up for sale - IMO. With all that said, I think DL would do better if they got the routes to set up LAX as their transpacific hub.

    kind regards,

    RogueTrader
     
    Ezra
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 11:47 am


    My interest is purely hypothetical -- what I'm positing isn't even on the radar screen. I'm merely interested in which would be the better market for a new entrant with the opportunity to begin significant Asian service. Any thoughts?
     
    roguetrader
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 1:18 pm

    Your wording leaves a little confustion. If by 'new entrant' you mean a Delta, then I think LAX is certainly better. If you look at the stronger and weaker airlines in the US, the strong ones are the ones with the strongest hubs, while the weaker airlines have weaker cities as their hub city. People often underestimate the importance of the actual city: but the hub city itself is key. LAX's huge size alone makes it more desirable than SFO.

    If, however, by 'new entrant' you mean a smaller carrier, then SFO might be better since it might provide an alternative to LAX and might face less competition as well.

    Both cities have room for sizable Transpacific service, but all other things being equal, what you've got here is like another Boston v. New York, except on the west coast. Boston/SFO have good international service, but the natural dominant player is New York/LAX.

    kind regards,

    RogueTrader
     
    Spark
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 1:24 pm

    Ezra, to answer your hypothetical situation, I could see Delta moving most operations to LAX. However, I think pigs will fly and it will snow in H-E-(double hockey sticks) before United would sell their Pacific routes. Remember, the big reason United hit the level they were at was because Pan Am sold those routes to United. United may have awful management, but I doubt they are that stupid.
    As far as the doom-n-gloom of Bay Area economics projections. The Bay Area tech economy is not going away, and will rebound nicely. As far as Long range market projections, the Bay Area is healthier than LA, because it is stronger in the industries that will be big in the future. (Ofcourse I'm very Nor Cal biased. Nothing good has ever come out of LA).
    I personally feel that the Asian airlines will continue to fly to SFO as they did before, and expand there after they expand to LAX (just like they have before). European airlines would be stupid to ignore SFO as well, but if they have to chose one, or the other, LAX would be the choice.
    I believe that Phillipines is the only international airline to fly to SFO but not LAX. Ofcourse, Daly City is basically a Filipino town.
     
    airworthy
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 1:54 pm

    Philippine Airlines still flies to LAX!
     
    bkkair
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 2:23 pm

    PR has flown to SFO since the '40's and to LAX since the '80's. Still flying daily to both cities on a mix of 744's and 340's.
     
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    RayChuang
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 9:28 pm

    Fortunately, an article in yesterday's USA Today indicate that transpacific traffic is rising again.

    That means UA may switch a number of transpacific routes back to the 747-400 by this summer from SFO. Already, CX is switching to the 747-400 this summer from the A340-300 now flying the HKG-SFO-HKG route.
     
    Ezra
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Tue May 07, 2002 11:32 pm


    Thanks for indulging my hypothetical, guys!
     
    airworthy
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Wed May 08, 2002 12:29 am

    Actually, Ray, the only route UA is switching back to a 747-400 is the 2nd daily SFO-NRT.

    UA is also adding a 3rd daily SFO-NRT with a 744, it seems at the expense of one of the 3 daily NRT-SEL.

    SFO-TPE will remain 777, and LAX-AKL will turn 777 07 JUN.
     
    travelin man
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Wed May 08, 2002 12:53 am

    Yeah, if Delta happened to get the Pacific routes from United, I definitely would see them moving them to LAX (as they did with their PDX Pacific routes, and quickly subsequently dropped them altogether). Terminal 5 has quite a bit of room, and Delta has a fairly large presence at LAX (for a non-hub airport).

    I agree with Rogue Trader though, that some of United's success with their Pacific routes at SFO must come from less competition there, so that might be a consideration if any other airline were to acquire them. (also, United's huge installed frequent flyer base in the Bay Area would have to be a consideration).

    And Spark, nothing good has ever come out of LA? What about Snow Dogs? Oh wait... never mind...  Big grin
     
    johnboy
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Wed May 08, 2002 1:17 am

    It's always seemed strange that there's been no SFO-AKL nonstop service on UA (or NZ for that matter).
     
    zionstrat
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    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Wed May 08, 2002 6:10 am

    Routing certainly isn't my specialty, but can anyone explain how SFO could possibly fall behind LAS and PHX?

    There's no doubt that a lots of US folks throw $s away on smaller shuttles and charters to LAS, so movements might be buyable, but it doesn't seem possible that total LAS passengers could possible exceed the large international flights at SFO.

    And PHX? I know there’s a lot of training and tradeshows that take advantage of the weather, but once again they out passengered SFO? How did they do it?

    I'm assuming that raw numbers are pretty reliable since the data is certainly collected in the first place, but are we certain that the aggregations are solid?

    Once again, this isn't my bag, but I am really surprised at LAS and PHX standings.
     
    ord
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    Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

    RE: Travelin Man

    Wed May 08, 2002 6:24 am

    You mentioned earlier UA's and AA's monopoly on LA-Chicago service (ultil Southwest announced service).

    Actually, ATA has about 30% of the LA-Chicago market in terms of passengers, even though they fly from Midway.
     
    travelin man
    Posts: 3198
    Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Wed May 08, 2002 6:34 am

    I thought about ATA after I posted. You are right, they were offering service to MDW. I am surprised, though, that they have 30% of the market!

    I think the traffic figures for PHX and LAS can be explained by the presence of 2 airlines: WN and HP. WN didn't cut too much service, so those airports suffered less. Both airports are hubs for those 2 airlines (I am using the term "hub" loosely for WN). Besides, each of those cities (Las Vegas and Phoenix) is served by only one major airport, while the Bay Area is served by 3 (SFO, SJC, and OAK). If you add up the traffic at all 3 bay area airports I am sure it greatly outnumbers the traffic at either LAS or PHX.
     
    FATFlyer
    Topic Author
    Posts: 4437
    Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Wed May 08, 2002 6:58 am

    Zionstrat,

    If you go back to the original article
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/05/03/MN43646.DTL

    passenger numbers at the 3 Bay Area airports in 2001 looked like this:
    SFO 34.6 million
    SJC 13.09 million
    OAK 11.4 million

    That totals roughly 59.1 million, which would put the regional passenger counts ahead of PHX, LAS, DEN, etc.




    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
     
    zionstrat
    Posts: 225
    Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 3:26 am

    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Thu May 09, 2002 12:40 am

    Travelinman and Fatflyer- Thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious if I had been awake - I even use SJC in the winter to avoid the weather delays at SFO, but for some reason didn't think to add it and OAK into the total.
    Cheers
     
    FATFlyer
    Topic Author
    Posts: 4437
    Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

    RE: SFO Has Largest Drop In Busiest Airport Rankings

    Fri May 10, 2002 2:07 am

    A little more about UA at SFO.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/05/09/BU76383.DTL

    This article talks about UA's financial situation, while mentioning the following

    "As such, San Francisco International, where United maintains a hub, will be unlikely to see jumbo jets replaced by smaller, cramped, aircraft, given its importance to the long-haul market. Kent (UA VP for North American Sales) said SFO is United's most profitable international gateway, even though SFO's international travel fell 6.4 percent last year.

    SFO is especially crucial to the Asia-Pacific market, which accounted for 16.6 percent of United's traffic in 2001, more than either Europe or Latin America. "


    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain

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