gf-a330
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Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 8:07 am

The airline's managing director says the company may buy more Airbus A380s and Boeing 777-300s within the coming months. An initial decision is expected in Jun02.

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Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 8:28 am

I hope they do, i want to see them at LHR.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 10:07 am

Great news, how many have they already ordered ?
 
AvObserver
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 10:17 am

This should put Airbus over the 100 aircraft milestone for the A380 though they've said they expect to announce yet another customer in the near future. That said, I don't expect to see too many more sold in the next few years, expect it to be quite awhile before they reach their 250 unit breakeven point. They need the Asian recovery to stay on track if they expect to hit that mark within the decade, I believe their original estimate (before 9/11) was to reach it in 2009. I think it may take a bit longer, now that the initial flurry of heavily discounted launch orders is out of the way.
 
Jaws707
Posts: 667
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 10:58 am

I am a huge fan of the A380, but I think Emirates may want to take it easy for a while on purchasing airplanes. I mean they are doing great now, and hopefully it stays that way, but they have already purchased 22 A380's I think, along with tons of A340's and 777's. I think that is enough for a long time in terms of capacity. Any other views?
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 8:18 pm

Airbus doesn't need Emirates order to break the 100 mark. Qatar and FedEx should soon to have finalized their orders of 2 and 10 aircraft, respectively. There is another airline ready to order the A380, too. However, if you know some basic finance, you'll know that Airbus will not be able to breakeven with 250 units. It's PR hogwash.
 
godbless
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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 8:40 pm

What does EK want with so many A380's?
Today the largest plane they have is the 777-300. They don't have a single (passenger-) 747 in their fleet so once the A380's arrive they will have a major increase of capacity that could lead to major problems since they won't only have a few but over 20... Lufthansa ordered 10 and they have 30 747-400's that they already fill up today. Well I guess the people at Emirates know what they are doing....I hope so.

Max
 
9V-SVE
Posts: 1953
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 8:41 pm

Is Emirates expanding big enough to need 22+ A380s, 26+ A330s, and dozens of 777s? I'm expecting they'll have some serious overcapacity at least with the A380s.
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 9:59 pm

They are overdoing it. They are most probably doing it for publicity. What on earth would EK want with over 22 A380's?

Anyway they need to secure financing for the aircraft they plan on purchasing, so let's wait and see...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 10:28 pm

Hope this will not lead to the collapse of such a great airline -EK

I kno overcapacity killed lots of airlines and debt contributed from new fleet.
 
donder10
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 10:34 pm

I doubt they would be doing this if payed landing fees at DXB.
 
Marco
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sat May 04, 2002 11:06 pm

...or if they had to pay for a lot of expenses that normal airlines have to pay for such as fuel, which if I'm not mistaken they do not have to pay for.

Also, EK are cost cutting BIG TIME with their staff benefits, especially with the furnished appartments, dental and health coverage, etc...

For example whereas before they would pay for a surgery right away you now need to wait two years before they pay for a surgery...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
donder10
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 2:51 am

Fuel is rumoured to account for 10% of an airline's costs!No wonder EK are doing so well lol. I think they needed the benefits to attract so many pilots in the beginning but now they are more of a well-known brand they have pilots coming to them -not the other way round!
 
manni
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 4:59 am

All of a sudden EK is a bad competitor and their management is stupid because they are ordering additional A380s. What's next people are going to come up with when some airline orders A380s?

EK's aim is to be no longer one of the best airlines in the world, but to be THE BEST airline in the world. And you can only become the best if you fly the best there will be available. It's simple like that!
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
racko
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 5:48 am

Manni, it's a fact that Emirates have the said advantages over the major european and american carriers. But it might be true that the boeing fans here wouldn't complain if EK would order 747-400QXblablaetc. instead of A380s...
 
Marco
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 4:57 pm

All of a sudden EK is a bad competitor and their management is stupid because they are ordering additional A380s. What's next people are going to come up with when some airline orders A380s?

Who said that the management is stupid? Can you see a market for over 40 A380s flying to DXB? I certainly can't. It doesn't mean they're stupid, just too ambitious.

EK's aim is to be no longer one of the best airlines in the world, but to be THE BEST airline in the world. And you can only become the best if you fly the best there will be available. It's simple like that!

What does flying the best aircraft have to do with anything? The refitted A330 will probably be just as comfortable as the A380, so using your argument they could just stick to A330s. Your last point does not make any sense.


Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 5:43 pm

Who said that the management is stupid? Can you see a market for over 40 A380s flying to DXB? I certainly can't. It doesn't mean they're stupid, just too ambitious

Where people are wrong here, it's that these 40 A380s will not fly just to DXB but will be flying CONNECTING passengers through DXB's hub, jumping from an A380 to another with a duty free and/or night stop stop in DXB. Emirates is looking forward to be on of the top players as a carrier between europe and asia/australia. Just look at Singapore Airline, a major airline with a HUGE (+50) fleet of 747s based in a small country. Hub and spoke is the policy of Emirates, service quality their first goal, and the A380 the perfect tool.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Marco
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 5:53 pm

Just look at Singapore Airline, a major airline with a HUGE (+50) fleet of 747s based in a small country. Hub and spoke is the policy of Emirates, service quality their first goal, and the A380 the perfect tool.

Singapore is a bad comparison. Singapore has a population of 3-4 million while Dubai 800K.

Singapore is located in a heavily populated part of the world, south east asia. Dubai is located in the Middle East, where not only do people fly less per capita, but it less populated.

Singapore has way more multinationals and corporations than Dubai does.

Singapore is located in a region that is politically stable. September 11th affected EK, even if they act like nothing happened!

Also, my opinion is that over 40 A380s are a ridiculous amount of planes for EK to purchase. You are entitled to your own opinion but I'm giving mine as someone living in Dubai...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
hkg82
Posts: 1301
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 6:20 pm

Is EK receiving the first A380, or is it SQ?

Hkg82.

 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:24 am

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 6:46 pm

Marco

Singapore is located in a heavily populated part of the world, south east asia. Dubai is located in the Middle East, where not only do people fly less per capita, but it less populated.

Singapore has way more multinationals and corporations than Dubai does.

Not a bad comparison. Singapore's development is a step ahead. Modern Dubai is the product of the past 20 years of intensive development. Prior to that, Dubai was a small trading port, clustered around the mouth of the Creek. This development is still going on. Have you notice all the new hotels buildt these past 5 years at Jumeira Road? Just have a look to EK's fleet in 1990, a few Airbuses and 727s. What about now?


Singapore is located in a heavily populated part of the world, south east asia. Dubai is located in the Middle East, where not only do people fly less per capita, but it less populated.

Yes, but the location of DXB is still perfect for a long haul hub with connecting flights to usa/eur and asia/aus. These are the customers hunted by EK. The domestic market will slighty increase with tourism in uae as well.

Singapore is a bad comparison. Singapore has a population of 3-4 million while Dubai 800K.

Sure, but take Belgium as another example. 10 millions people living there and just take a look to our airline's fleet lists...

You might be a resident in DXB, but working in the industry, I can tell you that most of us are looking to DXB/EK with big eyes. Their future is bright.




Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
9V-SVE
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 7:51 pm

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 8:06 pm

50 747s is not accurate. To be specific, SQ has 36 Pax 747s and 10 Cargo 747s. I think 744s have 416 seats. A380s 500-550 seats. About 100 more seats on each A380 than 744. If EK wants 40 A380s, its A380 fleet will have about 4,000 more seats than SQ's 744 fleet. And I don't think EK's A380s will serve as much destinations as the number of cities SQ 744s serve now.
 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 8:28 pm

9V-SVE

These A380s are suppose to serve till at least 2025, entering service in a few years from now. Who could give me the passengers figures for lets say 2015?....
If nothing else bigger than a 707 would be existing today, Singapore Airlines would probably be operating more than 150 of those...so oversized the A380? Not so sure...
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 10:01 pm

OO-AOG:

DXB is not a good hub for Asia/USA. The majority of the Asia/USA traffic is better served via the Pacific not the Atlantic. DXB can be a good hub for S. Asia traffic.
 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:24 am

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 11:01 pm

Dynkrisolo

DXB is a good hub for southwest asia (including India) traffic coming from the East coast of USA. It's shorter than the Pacific/polar routes. Indeed for northern Asia/western US coast, transpacific routes are shorter.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 11:13 pm

Traffic to India is generally low-yield though.
 
manni
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 11:34 pm

Marco,

For all your question you asked me. I would like to point out OO-AOG's answers. I could not have said it better.  Big grin

As for the best aircraft. I doubt Airbus is developing a new aircraft wich is not better than those that already exist. Considering the possibler ammenities you can have on a A380, yes, big is better here.
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ryanb741
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Sun May 05, 2002 11:56 pm

Well,

EK could probably already upgrade their LHR flights to A380s and fill them. I would guess the Bangkok/Hong Kong and several Indian flights would come into this category.

Once EK starts US service, I would have thought the JFK flight could use an A380 too.

I'm not entirely sure what Ek's loads are to Paris and frankfurt - but I think they would probably be high, due to the airline's popularity.

At the end of the day, finance isn't going to be a problem. I'm sure Sheikh Maktoum has a few Billion dollars to spare if necessary! Big grin
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 12:49 am

Not a bad comparison. Singapore's development is a step ahead. Modern Dubai is the product of the past 20 years of intensive development. Prior to that, Dubai was a small trading port, clustered around the mouth of the Creek. This development is still going on. Have you notice all the new hotels buildt these past 5 years at Jumeira Road? Just have a look to EK's fleet in 1990, a few Airbuses and 727s. What about now?

Even with the new hotels, which are only a handful, buying 40 A380s is excessive. Las Vegas has lots of hotels, most of which have 2,000-5,000 rooms, but do you see an airline with 40 A380s based in LAS?

Yes, but the location of DXB is still perfect for a long haul hub with connecting flights to usa/eur and asia/aus. These are the customers hunted by EK.

Fine but 40 A380s? Not even BA the world's largest international airline is ordering that many, or Luthansa.

Even BA is replacing B747's with smaller aircraft, B777's, and increasinf frequency.

The domestic market will slighty increase with tourism in uae as well

I can definately see a market for A380s on the DXB-AUH run. Yeah right.

Sure their future is bright, I wish them all the success, but I know for a fact that sometimes EK does a lot of stuff for publicity. They are expanding simply because they do not have to pay for a lot of things. Their plans are too ambitious...although I wish them the best of luck....


Manni....whatever  Insane
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manni
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 1:07 am

If you do not want to hear it, don't ask it. I wish I had looked at your profile first before replying to you.  Laugh out loud

I know this will be deleted straight away, but than you'll have read it already . So go ahead, press that button.  Big thumbs up



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Marara
Posts: 634
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RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 1:21 am

BA = Downsizing

EK = Massive Growth
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
emirates777
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2000 12:53 am

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 8:09 am

I would just say that Emirates A380s aren't due till 2006. And the 22 or 40 A380s will not arrive all at once. You have to look at Emirates fleet planning philosophy - they are anticipating for future growth. Back in the early 90s when Emirates placed orders/options for a total of 14 B777s people said they were crazy. They could be expanding at a faster rate today but are restricted because they don't have enough aircraft on order.

Now if you look at some routes today the 773 is not enough. Today Emirates could fill an A380 to LHR, JED and BKK. Project forward a few years - it wouldn't surprise me if the SYD, MEL, FRA, CDG routes outgrow the 773 by 2004/5. This will be followed by other routes (RUH, MNL, JNB, HKG, JKT). Emirates won't have a problem attracting pax as it appears they are prepared to compromise yield.

The goal at the end of the day is to bring tourists/business traffic into Dubai. Now to fill those A380s Emirates will have to tradeoff against yield. My understanding is that BA is reducing its fleet size but also improving the traffic mix toward premium and as a result improving yield. The model Emirates seems to be pursuing is the opposite, increase space at the back and grow through volume (resulting in lower yields). The govt. of Dubai will always be there to back Emirates up in case things go pear shaped - after all they are bringing all the tourists, and businesspeople that Dubai needs to stand on its feet in the future. I don't think Emirates profitability is the primary objective here - it's more Dubai's development. And at the end of the day - the ultimate holding company behind all of this is the Dubai govt - they benefit from the tourists etc. because they own the hotels, and the airline. If it all goes belly up - it's their loss.

Whilst 40 A380s is a big figure indeed, remember the additional 20 odd additional A380s won't be arriving until after 2010. My guess is that they are using the current favourable pricing environment to lock in good deals.

IMO an important part of Emirates not being able to fill its A380s will be whether foreign governments give Emirates the access to their home markets. Today, many foreign govts. are preventing Emirates from expanding in their respective markets eg. India, Saudi Arabia, Australia. Emirates could fill an A380 to BOM, DEL, MAA today but the Indian govt. won't allow it to happen. Emirates have requested a 3x daily into JED using a HD 773 (that's 443 seats! per flight) and the Saudi's won't have any of it. They want to go double-daily into SYD but the Australians won't allow it. These are some of the routes that the A380 is envisaged for. Look at Pakistan, Emirates is often referred to as the "2nd Pakistani carrier". Well, if the Pakistani govt. suddenly turned round and put a cap on Emirates flights then the expansion plans can be kissed goodnight.

IMO Emirates needs the A380 and 20 of these acft is certainly a stretch. 40 sounds a lot but i think it is more Emirates trying to lock in the favourable price today and hoping that they can expand at the rate they wish, but it raises the execution risk in an already ambitious plan.

my 0.02 worth

Rgds
Emirates777
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 3:51 pm

If you do not want to hear it, don't ask it. I wish I had looked at your profile first before replying to you.

Did I ask anything? I gave my opinion, didn't I? Hmmm.
What's wrong with my profile?

I know this will be deleted straight away, but than you'll have read it already . So go ahead, press that button

No I won't delete it because I want other people to see how much you've contributed to this post.

Got anymore of your wonderful wisdom Manni?

Emirates777

I agree with you the A380 can be placed on several markets, but I think over 40 A380s is overdoing it. 15-20 is about right, even for the year 2010, because they are also ordering A340-500s, more A330s and B777s. 40 in my opinion is excessive.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
9V-SVE
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 7:51 pm

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 7:02 pm

Yup, 40 is WAY to much. About 18-24 should do it. These routes would support the A380:

LHR
FRA
CDG
Cities around the Gulf including Pakistan
SIN
JFK
SYD
MEL
BKK
HKG
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 8:12 pm

If EK had the A380 today....they could fill up every single evening flight out of KHI.That flight, currently operated by B772/773,never seems to have enough supply to meet the demand.
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 8:13 pm

I must say that i completely agree 100% with Emirates777 assessment of this issue..
 
Dash8Driver
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:46 pm

RE: Emirates May Buy More A380s

Mon May 06, 2002 9:16 pm

EK777, you're right!!!

Regards
Dash8Driver  Smokin cool

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