teahan
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EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 2:34 am

Hello,

The following article on Aviationnow.com seems (again I think seems must be emphasized) to say that easyJet have gone Airbus:

***quote from Aviationnow.com***

Airbus issued its optimistic outlook despite the potential merger of British low-cost carriers Go and easyJet. John Leahy, Airbus executive VP Sales, said easyJet "had decided to go with 75 Airbus" planes for its expansion plans.

Leahy added that Airbus is "hopeful" that the joint company would again prefer Airbus models.

***(unquote)***

Source: http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_comm.jsp?view=story&id=news/cabup0506.xml

Okay so the original Go and the orginal easyJet both selected Airbus. Is it safe to presume the new and expanded easyJet will do likewise?

Jeremiah

Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
donder10
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 2:54 am

The combined pilot base of EZY and GO will be quite large,so re type rating is going to cost a few bob.Will Airbus have sweetened the deal in this way some how?
 
b757300
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 2:58 am

I'll believe an Airbus order when I see an Easyjet press release.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
donder10
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 3:07 am

Was it EZY who said they could do 19 minute turnarounds with the 319 due to its wider cabin than the 73G?Somone said it and I can't remember who.
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 3:30 am

The biggest problem is that the A32X is unproven. No one knows if it is reliable enough for loco ops, even if the price is rediculously low. easyJet know that the 737NG is suitable for them.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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RayChuang
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 3:42 am

I think the A319 appears to work for high-frequency operations. At least US Airways' shuttle flights on the BOS-LGA-DCA route are using the A319 with no major mechanical faults.
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 3:45 am

US Airways is very different than easyJet. There are no Airbus operators with the same business plan and routes and timings that easyJet has. The A32X would be a gamble.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Greg
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 3:48 am

Donder10..

Please explain how a one inch wider aisle makes for a faster turnaround?!?!?

That's one of the silliest things I've heard.
 
teahan
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 3:55 am

Hello,

That faster turnaround comment was made in the Orders Group before being taken back. Wider aisles = people moving in and out of the aircraft quicker. Perhaps not a huge difference but I can see a 1 or 2 minute difference.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
donder10
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 4:12 am

Donder10..

Please explain how a one inch wider aisle makes for a faster turnaround?!?!?

That's one of the silliest things I've heard

I said that I had heard it somewhere so dont ask me how it works!I thought it had been tested which in my view explained the 19 minutes -obviously it was bollocks.As 777236ER said,the 737 is a tried and tested plane that works well with the low-cost carriers model.I have heard that generally the 32X series has an advantage over the 737NG on longer routes-and EZY do have quite a few long routes-Athens from LGW,LPL,LTN, PMI from LGW,LPL etc.There are also bound to be complications with the switch from 733/G to 319.Although the 32X is wider than the 73G conterpart,it is longer?If EZY were to put the same number of seats that they have in the 73g into the 319 would be the seat pitch less?
Regards,donder10
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 4:13 am

Teahan, simple things such as the higher cargo door which requires a belt to reach will cost more time. Those last minute bags are a doddle to load on the 737.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
yow
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 4:24 am

The A320 has proven itself to work well with low cost carriers. Look at JetBlue, they seem to make a ton of money with A320s.
 
donder10
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 4:26 am

1 airline YOW.And they do alot of transcons don't they?This would seem to support the fact that the 320 is a good plane for longer routes.
 
N79969
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 4:39 am

I hear the A319/320 suffer inordinate wear and tear on their landing gear in high-cycle operations. I think I read it in this forum. The B737 can take a beating and proves it everyday. JetBlue flies pretty long flights relative to the typical low-cost carrier.
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 4:50 am

jetBlue has a completly different business plan and route network than easyJet.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
0A340
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 4:53 am

I hear this, I hear that, what a convincing argument this is!!!

Let's see, how many 320-family aircraft are out there?

Some 1670 aircraft are in OPERATION, with 98 operators, as of 28 february, 2002 (per Official Airbus data)
High-density, low density, premium, charter airlines, high cycles, low cycles all the variety.
Don't you tell me that the AirFrance Navette fleet is not high-cycle, high-density planes!! Don't tell me that Frontier is using their A319s once a day!!

The only reason the lo-co started with the 737 was the abudance of cheap, second-hand 737's!!! Low starting costs, that is. And once you start with something, even if the competition is slightly better, you wouldn't change.

Unless there is a big scale acquisition there is no reason for Airbus to undercut prices to get in the fray. I understand that the EasyGo situation has now enough momentum for Airbus to get serious in making a swap offer...

George
 
N79969
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 5:03 am

What I read was based on NWA's experience with the aircraft.
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 5:15 am

Air France's operation is different than easyJets. Yes, high cycle. Look at turn around time. jetBlue, again, different routes. Airtours, Air 2000 etc etc, look at frequencies, routes and turn around times. Completly different.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Greg
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 5:19 am

Airbus must be a bit flustered by losing the Ryanair order..so I think they'll make absolutley sure they don't miss out on EasyJet/Go.

The fact they were willing to actually alter and recertify the aircraft (319 with add'l exits) to get another two seats int he plane probably says it all.....
 
donder10
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 5:27 am

I doubt Airbus expected to get the Ryanair order really.FR were using the 'threat' of an Airbus order against Boeing to get a lower price on the 738s they ordered.They also threatened to get second hand 737s further pushing the price down.MOL did a good job getting his order in before EZY as I doubt Boeing will discount EZY to the same tune as they did for FR.
 
Greg
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 5:34 am

You have a valid point of their threat of 'used' equipment. But don't underestimate the frustration of losing a large contract in your own backyard. Much the same when NW chose the 330 and Jetblue the 320...it's embarassing for the manufacturers when the 'local' product doesn't win.

Airbus is keen to have their product placed with a low cost carrier...it says a lot about their reliablity and economics. Although I'm partial to Boeing order...I think this one was decided politically long ago....
 
GDB
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 5:39 am

How can a low-cost carrier with no ties to goverments, be affected by some shadowy 'political' pressure?
 
ZRH
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 5:46 am

I don't understand this completly stupid A vs B discussion. Both airliners are excellent and have proven their reliability in all kind of operations (short-haul, high or low density etc.). Thousends of both airliners are in service with many satisfied airlines. Where is the point?
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:08 am

ZRH, the point is (again) the A319/A320 hasn't been proven in an easyJet-esque operation.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Greg
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:19 am

GDB...who said it was 'shadowy'???
It's a matter of vanity, really. Airbus will want this order more than Boeing because it's European. It's almost a matter of patriotism.

All airlines have ties to governments..either for ownership or landing rights, etc.

ZRH..it's called a discussion.
 
ZRH
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:21 am

777236ER: Can you give me any reason why such a reliable aircraft could not operate in a "easy-jet operation"????
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:23 am

ZRH, i'm not saying it can't (although there are design features which favour the 737), but on the other hand, can you give me proof that it CAN?! Give me proof of an A319 operating reliably and making money in an easyJet situation.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
teahan
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:27 am

Hello,

Firstly I think we should realise that both easyJet and Go went in favour of the A320 family. Whether the new company does the same or not could be questioned but I believe it is very likely.

Plenty A319 aircraft do currently operate high frequency services. Just look at the A319's in so many European airlines. I bet their average sector lenghts are not much shorter than easyJet's.

777236ER, can you give me proof that an A319 cannot operate reliably and make money in an easyJet situation? I am sure both the original easyJet and Go were pretty carefull in their aircraft consideration.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
racko
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:30 am

I don't think Boeing can again offer a "buy one get one free" deal like they offered to Ryanair. Every 737 sold to Ryanair costs Boeing lots of money. Boeing shareholders won't like it when the company would continue with this policy...
 
0A340
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RE: 777236ER

Wed May 08, 2002 6:31 am

Dear 777236ER

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it hasn't been proven. EasyJet-esque operation means ~12hrs daily usage, on 3-hr max operations, right?

I need to see data from AF, LH, Frontier, United, USAirways, IB, British, AmericaWest, and lots of other airlines that used/use BOTH the 737 and the 320 and PROVE that the 737 has these unique, discriminating, qualifying performance differencials.
As a matter of fact, ALL these aforementioned airlines, having tried the 737 for years, went for the 320 for fleet renewal, and many of them have placed repeat orders for the 320s. The 320 is flying for more than 10 years now, and we all know what their operators have to say about it.

Well, 777236ER, I think that this DISPROVES your statement, so please stop repeating unfounded statements!
And to make sure I'm understood: I have nothing against the 737, just don't like the so often repeated statement of yours.

George


 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:34 am

I think we should realise that both easyJet and Go went in favour of the A320 family

Yeah, tell me about that order again? No order was ever placed. You're wrong.

can you give me proof that an A319 cannot operate reliably and make money in an easyJet situation?

*sigh*, one more time, there is no proof that it CAN operate in an easyJet-esque situation! It's a pretty big risk to take.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
ZRH
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:35 am

As Jeremiah said, there are a lot of European airlines which use their 32x on very short-haul with short turnarounds. Perhaps 6, 7 or more times a day. Where is here the difference to the so called "easy jet operation"? No where, it is absolutly the same.
 
Guest

RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:36 am

greg. Within the EU any airline can operate between any two points regardless of what any individual government thinks. If EZY want to fly from Seville to Helsinki then there is nobody who can stop them. They just fly it.
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:38 am

AF, LH, Frontier, United, USAirways, IB, British, AmericaWest, and lots of other airlines that used/use BOTH the 737 and the 320 and PROVE that the 737 has these unique, discriminating, qualifying performance differencials.


Non of these airlines operate like easyJet! They have COMPLETLY different route structures, passenger-type, frequencies and turn around times! Just because an aircraft is in the air 12+ hours a day doesn't mean it'll suit easyJet.

As a matter of fact, ALL these aforementioned airlines, having tried the 737 for years, went for the 320 for fleet renewal, and many of them have placed repeat orders for the 320s. The 320 is flying for more than 10 years now, and we all know what their operators have to say about it.

Yeah, you're right, BUT, once again these airlines have key differencies with easyJet. AF, LH, Frontier, United, USAirways, IB, BA all use their A32X on a lot longer flights and utilise them a lot less than easyJet would. They would fly quite a lot more sectors with quicker turn around times than they are doing with these airlines.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
teahan
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:38 am

777236ER,

Yeah, tell me about that order again? No order was ever placed. You're wrong.

Did I say order? No! I said selected the A320 family. As you know, the easyJet and Go merger put things on hold.

easyJet: Leahy would definitely not have opened his mouth saying easyJet had selected the A32S when they had not.

Go: They even put out a tender for A320 family engines.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:40 am

Leahy has never lied in the past, eh Teahan? The fact is, without an order who knows if they selected the A320?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
ZRH
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:40 am

ER236ER: It's a pretty big risk to take.

Where is here the "pretty big risk"???? lol
 
teahan
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:42 am

Hello,

Swiss', BA's, IB's etc. sectors are not much longer than easyJet's. Look at some of Swiss' sectors. Geneva-Zurich, Zurich-Vienna, Zurich-Frankfurt, Zurich-Paris, Zurich-Amsterdam etc. are nearly all under 70 minutes. Yes there are some longer ones like Zurich-Malaga, Zurich-Moscow etc. but these are in the majority not in the minority. easyJet also has some longer sectors. England-Malaga, England-Athens etc.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:43 am

ZRH, any new aircraft type is a big risk.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
teahan
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:45 am

777236ER,

A German magazine (Manager-Magazine) apparently (since I haven't seen it with my own eyes) said the easyJet Airbus order would be finalised by early June.

So now there are 2 source.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:45 am

Swiss', BA's, IB's etc. sectors are not much longer than easyJet's. Look at some of Swiss' sectors. Geneva-Zurich, Zurich-Vienna, Zurich-Frankfurt, Zurich-Paris, Zurich-Amsterdam etc. are nearly all under 70 minutes. Yes there are some longer ones like Zurich-Malaga, Zurich-Moscow etc. but these are in the majority not in the minority. easyJet also has some longer sectors. England-Malaga, England-Athens etc.

Swiss is COMPLETLY different than easyJet. Not low-cost. Different passengers. Different turn-around times.

Keep trying.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
racko
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:46 am

Well, with 1500+ aircraft in use and 14 years of A320 experience, i'm quite sure that if their is a design flaw in the A320 which prevents it from being used as a "low-cost-plane", they would have been found already. LH uses many A320 Series planes on the domestic race tracks, 30 minutes flying, turnaround, another 30 minutes flight, again turnaround and a 30 minutes flight and so on. I can't think how you could utilize your planes much harder than that... (well, you could make 12hrs a day touch-and-gos but i don't know of an airline doing that with 737s either)
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:47 am

Teahan, until I see the press-release from easyJet or GO I won't believe it. Sorry. This has happened in the past -- don't believe magazines.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
teahan
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:50 am

777236ER,

People's original argument (here and elsewhere) was structural weaknesses with many landings and take-offs. My last argument about the routes Swiss use A32S aircraft on straight away eliminated that.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:50 am

Racko, 737: integrated airstairs (proven, unlike the hastily added A319CJ-esque airstairs that AI added to the A319 to make it more attractive), easy cargo access as the 737 is lower to the ground (VERY important in lo-co ops), generally more economic than the A320 on shorter sectors, LH's order was placed a long time ago and was very politically orientated. Who knows whether a 737 would be better? Reliability records for these short, quick turnaround sectors would be interesting, and just how much utilisation an aircraft gets. Just because they're on 12+ hours a day for a week or so doesn't mean they will spend their life like that, unlike they would at easyJet.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
ZRH
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:54 am

777236ER. The A32x new aircraft typ?????  Confused
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:55 am

ZRH, A32X = A318/A319/A320/A321.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
teahan
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:57 am

777236ER,

Not attacking you but isn't the A318/A319/A320/A321.
reffered to as the A32S. AFAIK, A32X was officially used on the various versions (for instance A318) before they were officially named.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
777236ER
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 6:59 am

Yeah, I know, I was using A32X to mean not the A320 family, but any member of the A320 family. My bad.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
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RE: EasyJet, Go And Airbus

Wed May 08, 2002 7:04 am

I know what 32x means. But it is not a new aircraft typ at all. 10 years in service with ALL kind of operations. The easy jet operation is not so unique as you state. As Jeremiah said, Swiss (and former Swissair) uses some A 32X for very short-haul and short turn a rounds. ZRH-GVA, -MUC, -STR, -MXP, VIE etc. 12 hours a day.

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