airmale
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Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Wed May 08, 2002 7:12 am

FG will inaugurate a weekly service to Islamabad sometime this month, PIA will also go scheduled to Kabul from Islamabad around the same time replacing their chartered F27 service. Both airlines plan to add more frequencies as well as other cities in the future.

According to justplanes.com Air India have offered Ariana their three A300s, first aircraft could be delieverd as early as this month, FG plan to use them on European Union routes Paris, Frankfurt and London, while reliable sources in PIA claim that the airline will lease them four of their A300s once the 777 and A340 start arriving.

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godbless
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Wed May 08, 2002 7:24 am

After Afgahnistan has been a state of war for 20 years I ask myself if there is any market to feed any flight to any destination.
Does any company plan to invest in the country which would create a market for air travel?

But I wish them all the luck they need,
Max
 
jaysit
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Wed May 08, 2002 7:43 am

This reminds me of a comment a teacher and confidante once told me as a kid in 1978 when we were observing the ramp movements at Heathrow - "the first thing a newly independent third world country does is to buy a 747 and fly it into Heathrow !" He was being facetious, of course, but there is a ring of truth to it !!

At least the dozen or so pax on the AI A300s flying into Kabul this year should have a pleasant enough flight. I've heard that those planes are payload restricted, and thus have expansive legroom in coach.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Wed May 08, 2002 11:06 am

And i thought, AI's A300's have been sold to IC for $9m each.

They are payload restricted? Didnt know that. I think they are configured in a 236 seat layout, while IC operates them in a 256 seat layout. But this could be because AI operates them on longer flights.

- Roy
 
airways1
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Thu May 09, 2002 4:52 am

Jaysit, that's a bit cynical. Ariana have a long history of flying to Europe, and even flew to London, Paris and Frankfurt up till 1992. They used 727s and of the couple of times I say them disembarking at Heathrow, they were packed full.

airways1
 
clipper001
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Thu May 09, 2002 5:10 am

The point of 3rd world countries building national airlines is an interesting point. One of the issues that my International Transportation class dealt with was the problem of 3rd world countries transportation systems. Many were influenced to build flag carriers, with new aircraft, while the road and rail networks that could actually help the country develop internally were left to rot.
 
airmale
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Mon May 13, 2002 6:28 am

Ariana started their Islamabad service this morning with the flight arriving at around 8.00 am and leaving at 8.45 am. PIA's sewrvice starts on the 18th of this month and will operate on Saturday's departing at 12.00 pm from Islamabad, more routes and frequencies to be added according to PIA's ad in the papers. Both carriers are operating normally to each others countries for the first time in more than 20 years. Ariana did operate to Peshawar off and on throughout the 90's.
.....up there with the best!
 
jaysit
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Mon May 13, 2002 6:39 am

Not all Third World Countries are the same, contrary to what some course syllabi may promulgate. Some countries like China, for instance, need well-established aviation systems. Ditto for a place like Afghanistan, where roads are often devastated by snow storms, avalanches, etc. A country like India has a very extensive rail system and, thus, stuck to the view that air travel was for the wealthy. This led to punitive tariffs on air travel, prohibitive fuel surcharges, and other retrograde measures.

Admittedly, some countries have spent millions of dollars propping up failing national airlines (Example: India), but this has not been to the exclusion of developing railway systems. Infrastructural development, especially in developing countries with a well-established technical workforce, is seldom a "Rob Peter to please Paul" situation, but more of a reluctance to create a viable infrastructural development free of government control. The money spent on keeping an airline like Air India in the red, would never have made it to the alternative creation of highways - it almost always ended up in the pockets of politicians and their yes-men in the middle echelons of the administration.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
prosa
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Mon May 13, 2002 6:50 am

Not all Third World Countries are the same, contrary to what some course syllabi may promulgate. Some countries like China, for instance, need well-established aviation systems. Ditto for a place like Afghanistan, where roads are often devastated by snow storms, avalanches, etc. A country like India has a very extensive rail system and, thus, stuck to the view that air travel was for the wealthy. This led to punitive tariffs on air travel, prohibitive fuel surcharges, and other retrograde measures.

All very true. Afghanistan can hardly be criticized for neglecting its rail infrastructure for the simple reason that there isn't any! Building a nationwide rail network, or for that matter making the road network more useful, would cost a vast amount of money that the country doesn't have, and to keep things on-topic would be far more expensive than developing Ariana into a useful national and international carrier.

"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
jaysit
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Mon May 13, 2002 12:30 pm

Additionally, I suspect that most travellers to Afghanistan over the next few years will be members of various aid organizations, NGOs, news agencies, military and intelligence personnel from countries other than the US, etc. Unlike the US military, these people cannot depend on US military transports to take them into Afghanistan, and I doubt if foreign carriers would want to take on the insurance liability incurred from flying into Kabul (bad runaways, poor ATC, sniper fire, etc). Thus, it is imperative that Afghanistan develop its own airline to allow for easy(or easier) access into the country.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Mon May 13, 2002 2:37 pm

Ariana had a well-deserved reputation for excellent service back in the 60's and 70's.

Indeed, they purchased a new DC-10-30 in 1979 just before the Soviet invasion. It was believed at the time that the DC-10 was spirited to Russia so they could inspect the engines/avionics etc.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
airmale
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Sun May 19, 2002 7:36 pm

PIA started their scheduled flights to Kabul from Islamabad yesterday, the weekly service will continue to use the Fokker 27 according to a PIA sales agent, as did the charter's, a wise decision? or to give Ariana leverage with their 727 jet? surprisingly PK are charging an exhorbitant 21700 Rupees (350 U.S $ approx, Ariana are charging 200) fare on the route one way!!! an estimated 50,000 Afghans live in Islamabad.
.....up there with the best!
 
emirates747
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Mon May 20, 2002 12:05 am

Jaysit: I agree with your teacher's statements! Most airlines are not considered to be really legit until they fly to London.

I lived in UAE when Emirates started up operations. For an airline geek, it was a very exciting time. But Emirates really gained much more stature ( or at least that was the image in the common man's mind ) when they started EK 001 from DXB to LGW. I remember that morning. The sole english radio station, at that time, covered the flight, from preparation, to boarding, to take off. Looking back through an old diary, I see my comments for that day: "EK 001 is on its way. Now Emirates will REALLY take off!" Of course, I was just a pimply faced teenager then. Little did I know of what Emirates was to become.

But the point is that, although, EK flew succesfully to Bombay, Delhi, Karachi, and Colombo, at that time, it was their London route that got the "001" designation, and was the really high-profile route. Having London on any airlines' destination list gives it an immediate respectability.

emirates747
 
yak42
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Mon May 20, 2002 9:19 pm

Well I don't think the Afghan economy would have to support the international A300 flights, its got more to do with who is going to fly there. True there will be some passengers from international organisations and the media, but the flights will certainly be popular if just some relative stability holds, as their is a huge afghan diaspora all over the world desperate to see what's left of their families, friends and homeland.
 
lapper
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Mon May 20, 2002 9:39 pm

What route was the hijacked Ariana plane flying before it came over to Stansted? Was that a scheduled domestic flight, or was it chartered?
 
airmale
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Tue May 21, 2002 5:36 am

Scheduled domestic from Kabul to Mazar-e-Sharif in the North West, Lapper, as for Kabul it seems to be headed for another Berlin like setup.
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Shilla
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RE: Ariana To Pakistan-May Get Air India A300s, Add EU

Tue May 21, 2002 6:29 am

We would welcome Ariana here in Germany again !

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