AviationLaw
Topic Author
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 11:25 am

Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Wed May 08, 2002 5:37 pm

I have often wondered about the frequent use of the word "finals" on this board. My understanding is that aircraft make a "final approach". Aircraft in a traffic pattern turn onto "final" from the base leg of the approach, or they are guided onto a "final" approach. I have never seen the word "finals" used outside of this website.

Is this simply a function of the differences in the use of english from region to region? Is this a convention on this website? Am I just a complete moron for wondering about this?

Thanks in advance
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Wed May 08, 2002 6:07 pm

The correct term is "final", and NOT "finals". Finals is a slang thing that's crept into the aviation vocabulary over the years.

If you learn to fly, you will get castigated by your instructor if you use "finals".

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Falcon Flyer
Posts: 1121
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2000 12:10 pm

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 12:21 am

I must also have a bit too much time on my hands because I've thought about the same thing. Maybe a difference between US english and Queen's english ?? IMO it's without the "s".
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
UALDUDE
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 12:15 pm

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 12:28 am

I have wondered why people say that also! It is not correct. I am a pilot and when you call ATC, you say you are on "final", not "finals." You see it used so much though. There is only one final. Thanks.
 
ThirtyEcho
Posts: 1409
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 1:21 am

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 1:01 am

I have only seen "finals" used on this website and it is absolutely wrong. The legs of a traffic pattern are upwind, crosswind, downwind, base and final. None of these are pluralized, ever.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 1:20 am

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/760738/

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/702547/

etc

(btw. in the second thread I take back my statement, Final is so much better!)

Regards

Dan  Smile
 
cainanuk
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 4:05 pm

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 4:18 am

We use the term "finals" all day long at work. While I agree it is incorrect, that doesnt mean that it is not used in everyday aviospeak. Pilots call in all day and tell us "Finals in 10 minutes" etc etc....Doesnt mean its right, just common.
Cainan Cornelius
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4460
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 4:24 am

I have to say that I have never heard "finals" used and I have been flying for many years.
 
jetskipper
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:50 am

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 4:37 am

I am a pilot for a U.S. carrier. The only time I have ever heard finals used is when talking about getting the final weight count for the flight (passengers and cargo). For instance a fligth attendant or gate agent will hand us a manifest and say "here are your finals". That's the only time I have ever heard it used.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 6:04 am

I too have never heard of the term "finals" in aviation.
You can always tell the non aviation people when they use that term. Jetskipper refers to a different sort of "finals." I have heard the term as "the numbers."
The one thing that I have never liked was the term "rudders." On every aircraft I have ever flown there have always been just ONE RUDDER!

Maybe the confusion is the 2 rudder pedals, but I always chastize pilots when I hear them say rudders as it is just plain wrong.
Clipper
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 6:26 am

The one thing that I have never liked was the term "rudders." On every aircraft I have ever flown there have always been just ONE RUDDER!

Then you've never flown the most beautiful airplane in the world Clipper. I refer to none other than the magnificent Lockheed Constellation, which certainly did and still does have more than one rudder! Big grin

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Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 6:32 am

I have heard this term used on numerous occasions with my scanner. Although this is a somewhat interesting topic, quite frankly, who cares?
 
A330
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 9:06 pm

Finals is mostly used in the UK by PPL pilots, but is actually a wrong word to use.
Final is the correct one indeed!!
Shiek!
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Thu May 09, 2002 9:30 pm

Jeez, I look forward to a day when aviation communication is standardised to such an extent that this discussion actually matters.

Yes, the term is "final". No, it doesn't make any difference in the big picture if you use "finals".

In my opinion there are far more worrying differences in aviation phraseology to be concerned about.
 
CactusCMH
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 8:48 pm

Why Airlines Is Pulural

Fri May 10, 2002 1:50 am

Since we are on the English grammer topic, I want to ask everyone a grammer question too. Why the word "airlines" or "airways" is always in pural form when it is after a name, for example, United Airline(s), American Airline(s) or British Airway(s)?
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Fri May 10, 2002 1:55 am

Er...it's not always plural:

http://www.cityairline.com/

By the way, the word is "grammar".
 
sunilgupta
Posts: 766
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 12:15 pm

RE: Why The Is There An "S" In "Finals"

Fri May 10, 2002 2:13 am

I listen to the scanner quite often and never hear the term “finals”. I have heard it said by spotters and photographers.

This is off topic, but the 747 and some other airliners have two rudders. The idea is to place each one on a separate hydraulic system so that it one fails there is still some control available.

Sunil