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China's Skies Not Safe?

Wed May 08, 2002 8:47 pm

from bbci

Wednesday, 8 May, 2002, 11:11 GMT 12:11 UK
Analysis: China's air safety


Passengers need not worry, aviation experts say

A second fatal crash by a Chinese airline in less than a month is likely to dent passenger confidence but aviation experts have put the crashes down to coincidence.
A China Northern Airlines plane carrying 112 passengers and crew crashed into the sea of the coast of north-east China late on Tuesday, with all on board feared dead.



It's just an unfortunate set of circumstances

Chris Yates, an air safety expert
The crash came less than a month after an Air China jet crashed into a mountainside in South Korea, killing 129 of the 155 passengers.

Despite the two crashes, experts said Chinese air safety was better than ever.

Chris Yates, an air safety expert with aviation and defence publishers Jane's, told BBC News Online: "It's just an unfortunate set of circumstances.

"In the past China has had a fairly bad reputation for air safety, involving Russian-built aircraft from the Soviet days," he said. "With the newer Western-built aircraft China is fairly safe.

"It's no worse than anywhere else, quite frankly."

Fire

Chinese carriers invested heavily in training and equipment after a series of fatal crashes in the 1990s. The two latest accidents were their first fatalities in nearly two years.

Click here to learn about recent crashes involving Chinese airlines

Experts have noted that the crashes involved different airlines, aircraft types and different probable causes.

South Korean officials suspect pilot error and bad weather caused Air China's Boeing 767 crash last month. And shortly before Tuesday's crash, the pilot of the US-built MD-82 airliner reported a fire on board.


Pilot error probably caused the Air China crash

"That could potentially indicate damage to electrical cabling," said Mr Yates.

China does not allow smoking on domestic flights.

Chinese airlines have become major buyers of advanced Boeing and Airbus jetliners, and have also put more money into training.

In February, China Northern signed an agreement with Boeing to train 200 pilots in MD-90 flight simulators in California and has also sent pilots to Boeing's training centre in the south-west Chinese city of Kunming.

European aircraft maker Airbus also operates a training centre in Beijing.

The China Northern crash came as the airline was preparing to merge with the larger China Southern airline as part of a massive shake-up of China's aviation industry.

Experts said the merger should improve air safety and was not a cause for concern.

"The industry shake-up should help raise the level of safety of some smaller airline companies as the bigger ones have better safety records," said Albert Chen, an aviation analyst with DBS Vicker Securities in Hong Kong.

Recent crashes involving Chinese airlines:

7 May 2002: China Northern airline carrying 103 passengers crashes into the sea off the north-eastern city of Dalian.

15 April 2002: Air China Boeing 767 crashes into mountainside near South Korean city of Busan.

22 June 2000: Chinese built Yun-7 crashes near Wuhan killing all 44 people on board and seven on the ground.

24 February 1999 Russian-built Tupolev Tu 54 owned by China Southwest Airlines crashes in a field close to the city of Wenzhou, killing all 61 people aboard.

8 May 1997 China Southern Airlines Boeing 737 crash-lands in southern city of Shenzhen, killing at least 35 people.

June 1994 Soviet-built Tupolev owned by China Northwest Airlines explodes shortly after takeoff from Xi'an killing 160 in China's worst passenger air disaster.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: China's Skies Not Safe?

Thu May 09, 2002 4:26 pm

"In the past China has had a fairly bad reputation for air safety, involving Russian-built aircraft from the Soviet days," he said. "With the newer Western-built aircraft China is fairly safe.

Some expert this guy is huh? His comments are absolute rubbish, and try to paint a picture of Soviet-built aircraft as being unsafe.

Maybe he would care to go back and look at the record of aviation incidents in China, and he will see that aircraft such as the DC-3 and Trident make up for a LARGE percentage of incidents. Last time I checked, the DC-3 was American built, and the Trident was British built.

Yes, there have been incidents with some Soviet-built aircraft in the service of CAAC. But put it into perspective.

One could argue that Soviet aircraft are safer than American built aircraft, because American airlines have never crashed a Soviet-built aircraft in service. Of course, American airlines have never operated Soviet-built aircraft, and the same can be said to some extent about Chinese airlines with foreign built aircraft.

Also, look at all of the crashed in China in the 1990s, involving 737s. Soviet-built?

Chinese skies would be fairly safe whether they operate Soviet-built aircraft or American-built aircraft or European-built aircraft. They all produce safe aircraft; the problem lies in the maintenance which is performed on the aircraft.
 
gmjh_air
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:37 pm

Aviatsiya.ru

Sat May 11, 2002 11:15 pm

I think you should re-check your facts.

There were lots of (reported) crashes and incidents in China during the 80's and 90's and most of them were with Russian or Chinese built aircrafts. Boeing and Airbus had by natural reasons not yet delivered many aircrafts to China.

DC3 and Trident???? Large percentage? Maybe you could give us a few links?

On the other hand I believe most of the accidents and incident were not due to the aircraft itself being built in Russia (or China for that matter). In most cases it was probably more due to training and maintenance.

I know a bit what I'm talking about as I've been flying in China during the early and mid 90's, and I can promise you that most of the TU 134 and TU 154 I've been on were in quite bad shape.

 
Guest

RE: China's Skies Not Safe?

Sun May 12, 2002 12:22 am

I think you should re-check your facts.

Why? What I have said is correct.

There were lots of (reported) crashes and incidents in China during the 80's and 90's and most of them were with Russian or Chinese built aircrafts.

Your statement is not correct. In fact, here is a break down of Chinese airline crashes and incidents in the 1980s and 1990s, and you can see that Russian-made aircraft make up just under half of crashes/incidents.

* 20 March 1980 - Antonov An-24 - crashed (unknown fatalities)
* 26 April 1982 - Trident - crashed into mountain (112 dead)
* 27 Feb 1983 - Trident - overran runway - aircraft written off
* 18 Jan 1985 - An-24 - crashed on a missed approach - (38 dead)
* 22 Oct 1985 - Shorts 360 - overran runway - aircraft written off
* 15 Dec 1986 - An-24 - engine stalled due to icing and crashed (6 dead)

The above are all attributed to CAAC aircraft.

And we continue:

* 18 Jan 1988 - China Southwest Airlines - Il-18 - engine problems and crashed - 108 dead
* 31 Aug 1988 - CAAC - Trident - runway accident in Hong Kong - 7 dead
* 7 Oct 1988 - Shanxi Airlines - Il-14 - crashed into hotel - 42 dead
* 15 Aug 1989 - China Eastern Airlines - An-24 - experienced engine failure and crashed - 34 dead
* 22 Mar 1990 - Air China - Trident - overran runway - aircraft written off
* 31 Jul 1992 - China General Aviation - Yak-42 - crashed when experienced engine failure - 106 dead
* 8 Oct 1992 - Wuhan Airlines - Il-14 - engine problems and crashed - 14 dead
* 24 Nov 1992 - China Southern - 737-300 - crashed into mountain - 141 dead
* 6 April 1993 - China Eastern - MD-11 - fault caused by MDC design flaw - 2 dead
* 23 Jul 1993 - China Northwest - BAe-146 - control lost and crashed - 55 dead
* 26 Oct 1993 - China Eastern - MD-82 - overran runway - aircraft written off - 2 dead
* 13 Nov 1993 - China Northern - MD-82 - undershot runway - aircraft written off - 12 dead
* 6 Jun 1994 - China Northwest - Tu-154 - aircraft broke up inflight - 160 dead
* 20 Jul 1994 - Yunnan Airlines - 737-300 - overran runway - aircraft written off
* 8 May 1997 - China Southern - 737-300 - overran runway - aircraft written off - 35 dead
* 24 Feb 1999 - China Southwest - Tu-154 - crashed - 61 dead
* 9 Jun 1999 - Shantou Airlines - 737-300 - overran runway - aircraft written off
* 2002 - Air China 767 and China Northern MD-82 crashes

Boeing and Airbus had by natural reasons not yet delivered many aircrafts to China.

"Western" aircraft manufacturers have been delivering aircraft to China on a large scale pretty much since 1972 - 707s, 747-200s, 747SPs, 767s, BAe-146s, Shorts 360, Hercules, 737-200s, etc, etc, so your point doesn't really make any sense.

DC3 and Trident???? Large percentage? Maybe you could give us a few links?

http://aviation-safety.net/database/country/B.shtml

On the other hand I believe most of the accidents and incident were not due to the aircraft itself being built in Russia (or China for that matter). In most cases it was probably more due to training and maintenance.

This is the one point which we will agree on.

I know a bit what I'm talking about as I've been flying in China during the early and mid 90's, and I can promise you that most of the TU 134 and TU 154 I've been on were in quite bad shape.

Tu-134? Are you sure? Which airline? I would be most interested to hear about this, as I don't think the Tu-134 ever made it to service with any Chinese airline. And I say this, because CAAC operated the 737-200 which was in the class of the Tu-134.

 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: China's Skies Not Safe?

Sun May 12, 2002 3:26 pm

The main problem is that the passengers do not obey the safety rules. From an unofficial source, the MD-82 crash is caused by a smoker(passsenger) burned rubbish in toilet carelessly.