BWIA 772
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Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 4:57 am

Do you think that the airline will keep the Airbus 340s for more than 5 years. I ask this because the airline might have picked that type of aircraft due to the category 2 status of Trinidad were the island is based. Do you think that the island might go all boeing.
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BWIA330
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 12:47 pm

Hey,

Im sure that they will keep the A340's on the lease from the ILFC for 5 years and then maybe obtain some brand new aircraft.

Just my opinion.

Best Regard,

BWIA330
 
Inbound
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 1:31 pm

heard someone mention that once the ETOPS restriction is lifted, they may get rid of the A340-300s and replace them with A330-300s for more cost effective maintenance.
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qatarairways
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 1:58 pm

Inbound

If they introduce a twin they won't have much savings if any in the cost of maintenance. The A340-300 is powered by CFM-56 which share a lot of commonality with the CFM-56 engines of BWIA's B737-800s. Even though both engines have some slight differences they have a lot of common parts and also share similar maintenance procedures. This means BWIA doesn't need to retrain it's maintenance crew for the A340s engines.
If they use a twin this could also lead to higher maintenance costs because of more stringent procedures which are related with ETOPS.

Regards,
QatarAirways
 
BWIA 772
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 3:26 pm

Note that I am a novice thus making me a little ignorant of certain stuff.
This is to Qatar Airways.

The Tristars have RR engines so if the airline got a 777 with RR engines would it be cheaper to train the maintenance crew. You also said that it would be cheaper because of the commonaility with the engines of the 737. How about the pilot training and thoses who have to service the aircraft. They have to learn how to fly an Airbus which is completely different than that of Boeing and are not the 737s ETOPS aircraft as well.
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 3:37 pm

This makes me wonder why BWIA even leased the A340-300 in the first place when they have additional 50 seats when the A330-200 can do the job much efficiently despite lack of range but this is not needed in BWIA's network really (correct me if i am wrong).

Fine , ETOPS restriction. Maybe the A340-200 would also do the work? I think there are quite a few A340-200 available for immediate leasing.

I think they chose the A340-300 because of its leasing fees being cheaper than A342? and more choice of A343?
 
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 3:55 pm

Whenever an airline introduces a new type of aircraft, it incurs a huge expense in terms of training, software systems, tooling, parts etc. For them to discard that type and move to something entirely different is only viable if someone else - eg the manufacturer - is prepared to pick up the tab.

As it's based in a Category 2 country, BeeWee cannot get the ETOPS certification it requires to operate to Europe. This means that the only games in town for it are the MD11, A340 or B747.

In any event, operating an ETOPS standard aircraft is extremely expensive, in terms of the increased staffing required as well as considerably higher costs for parts stocks and maintenance.

There is about as much commonality of the CFM56s powering the A340 and those powering the B737-800 as, say between the RB211-22B and the -524B4; which is to say about as much between the -524 and the Trent!
 
qatarairways
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 4:28 pm

BWIA772

"The Tristars have RR engines so if the airline got a 777 with RR engines would it be cheaper to train the maintenance crew."

No it will not be cheaper. The RB-211 on the L1011 are completely different than the RR Trent 800s on the 777s. They have two very different cores and AFAIK they don't share any parts (or at least not any major ones).
The A340-300 is powered by the CFM56-5C engines which share the same core as the CFM56-7B engines on the B737-800. Both engines also share a lot of parts which would significantly reduce maintenance costs because they could buy the parts at "wholesale" price. Another area of savings is the retraining of maintenance workers. The maintenance technicians already have experience on the CFM56-7B (737-800) engines and so they will only undergo minimal training to maintain the CFM56-5C of the A340-300s.

"How about the pilot training and thoses who have to service the aircraft. They have to learn how to fly an Airbus which is completely different than that of Boeing"

I was talking about costs savings concerning maintenance and not concerning flight crew retraining. Basically the L1011 pilots will have to undergo retraining anyway whether BWIA orders twins (767 / 330) or Quads (340).

"They have to learn how to fly an Airbus which is completely different than that of Boeing and are not the 737s ETOPS aircraft as well."

60min ETOPS is sufficient to operate Intra-Caribbean as well as operate flights to the Americas with the 737-800. This certification is very easy to get unlike 180min ETOPS certification which is needed for European flights.

I am not an expert too so feel free to correct me.


Airbus Lover

"This makes me wonder why BWIA even leased the A340-300 in the first place when they have additional 50 seats"

The A340-300s will only have 35 extra seats than the L1011s an increase of only 14%

" the A330-200 can do the job much efficiently despite lack of range but this is not needed in BWIA's network really (correct me if i am wrong)."

The A330-200 will have a capacity decrease over the L1011s, and BWIA has done a good job filling their L1011s why turn away passengers? Fine they could increase frequencies with the A330-200 but that would be difficult in slot restricted airports such as LHR.

"Fine , ETOPS restriction. Maybe the A340-200 would also do the work? I think there are quite a few A340-200 available for immediate leasing.
I think they chose the A340-300 because of its leasing fees being cheaper than A342? and more choice of A343?"


Even though the A342 is smaller than the A343 there isn't a significant decrease in the A342 operating costs. The A340-300 is more economical in terms of seat-per-mile costs over the A340-200. The A340-300 also will give BWIA a capacity increase, growing space for the future while there won't be a capacity increase for the A340-200.
BWIA can choose between the A330-300, B777-200ER or the A340-300 for it's future growth. The A330-300 is more expensive than the A340-300 and it won't have the range to do future routes to Frankfurt for example without weight restrictions. The B777-200ER is also more expensive than the A340-300 and it has less availability so I guess this only leaves the A340-300 at least for the next few years.

Regards,
QatarAirways
 
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 4:58 pm

thanks for your info Qatar Airways/
 
qatarairways
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RE: Will Bwia Keep The 340s For More Than 5 Years.

Sun May 12, 2002 5:53 pm

I made an error:

"The A340-300 is powered by the CFM56-5C engines which share the same core as the CFM56-7B engines on the B737-800."

I checked with CFM, they don't have the same core, but they still share some parts and have similar characteristics.

Regards,
QatarAirways

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