eugdog
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:32 pm

How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Mon May 13, 2002 10:32 pm

Much has been said about the way the discount airlines bring down costs but there are some very subtle ways which bring down costs

1) They always board the aircraft from the rear as well as the front. To ensure passengers use the rear entrance they dispense with the perfectly good telescopic ramp at Stansted. Passengers must go down a flight of stairs to the apron
2) At Treviso and other small airports - check is completely manual - no computers linked up to the central reservation computers in England or Ireland. The check in staff (just one!) was ticking passengers off a faxed passenger list!
3) by landing at tiny regional airports they make money on the bus trip into town (very reasonably priced). It is a specially chartered bus which leaves half an hour after landing. This would be impossible at larger airports because the bus into town would sold off as a concession to a third pary or jealously maintained by the local transport authority!
4) At Treviso - taxying to runway takes about 45 seconds! In my case it left 10 minutes early and arrived 45 minutes early at Stansted.
5) Aircraft does not need a tow from its gate as it is the only aircraft on the apron and there is plenty of room to manoever
6) They charger £4.50 ($6.50) for a large sandwich. It cost about 50p to make a sandwich - if they sale 3 millon of them per year (assuming 1/3 of passengers buy them) then then £13 million is added to profits.
7) Just three cabin crew for a 189 passenger 737-800
8) In flight magazine is distributed and collected at the end of the flight.
9) passnegers are ask to take their newspapers away with them at the end of the flight.

you have to admire Ryanair for the way they do things - I loved them!!!

Thanks to them I going to make 3 days trips to Venice next month - the flights were cheaper then hotel rooms!
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Mon May 13, 2002 11:06 pm

Don't forget that their employees get paid a pittance. Ryanair pilots get paid about 19,000 a year where as pilots in the states get paid into the 6 figures

Jeremy
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Mon May 13, 2002 11:07 pm

Interesting observations - however, although I admire the low-cost concept of Southwest and the like, I disagree in some points:

1) They always board the aircraft from the rear as well as the front. To ensure passengers use the rear entrance they dispense with the perfectly good telescopic ramp at Stansted. Passengers must go down a flight of stairs to the apron.

I guess this is also to save money as I believe the use of the jetbridge incurs additional cost from the airport operator at many airports. However, I was recently boarded at MPL through the jetbridge, if I remember correctly.

2) At Treviso and other small airports - check is completely manual - no computers linked up to the central reservation computers in England or Ireland. The check in staff (just one!) was ticking passengers off a faxed passenger list!

Not sure if that saves a lot of money. I am led to believe that it is more cost-effective that they don't print paper tickets and use laminated, re-collectable boarding passes.

3) by landing at tiny regional airports they make money on the bus trip into town (very reasonably priced). It is a specially chartered bus which leaves half an hour after landing. This would be impossible at larger airports because the bus into town would sold off as a concession to a third pary or jealously maintained by the local transport authority!

Is this the case ? I was always under the impression - from the advertising etc. - that the bus service is provided by independent bus companies that are running their service at their own risk. At BGY, it is the same service as before-Ryanair and they simply added some frequencies.

4) At Treviso - taxying to runway takes about 45 seconds! In my case it left 10 minutes early and arrived 45 minutes early at Stansted.

5) Aircraft does not need a tow from its gate as it is the only aircraft on the apron and there is plenty of room to manoever


This lack of towing is only true for very few airports. I have seen it at any airport I have flown to with Ryanair (STN, HHN, DUB, MPL, BGY, PSA).

6) They charger £4.50 ($6.50) for a large sandwich. It cost about 50p to make a sandwich - if they sale 3 millon of them per year (assuming 1/3 of passengers buy them) then then £13 million is added to profits.

I doubt that 1/3 buys the sandwiches - my impression from my flights with Ryanair recently was that only a handful of passengers - if at all - buys food. I believe that most profits from the food and beverage sales go as a provision to the cabin crew.

7) Just three cabin crew for a 189 passenger 737-800

The number of cabin crew is regulated by law; nothing Ryanair can do about it. A 189seat aircraft need 4 cabin crew and on all my flights there were four in the cabin....

8) In flight magazine is distributed and collected at the end of the flight.

In flight magazine is a big word for that publication - it is more a catalogue that shows what is on offer for purchase. Most airlines simply keep those in the seat-pockets as their seems to be little risk that passengers take home such a publication.


The real cost-saving issues you did not mention are direct sales, fleet-standardization, out-sourcing of non-essential work, lean management structures, subsidies from provincial airports and tourist boards etc. etc.

 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Mon May 13, 2002 11:20 pm

19k a year for pilots?Thats awful!
 
eugdog
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:32 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Mon May 13, 2002 11:28 pm

Ryanair paying pilots £19000! I heard that Ryanair pay their pilots the highest - I remeber the figure of £89,000 for captains (easyjet in the high £70K). How could they pay pilots a pittance when there is so much demand for B737 pilots. But I am told their flight attendants only get paid £12000. But if they can recruit at that level of pay - then why not?

VFW614

They board both rear and forward doors to save time. Maybe Jet Blue do not do it becasue the aisle is wider - but there is always a traffic jam in aisle if you board from the front only on a 737. Also the A320 is higher off the ground then a 737 and does not come with flight stairs!

Regarding sandwiches and percentage take up - I am pretty sure that a reasonable number of passengers take up the offer otherwise they would not bother to sell them - or to make the sandwiches so large and fresh! That is why they do not mind selling some seats at £5.00 because they are confident some passengers will buy food on the plane. Remeber that profitability is made at the margin - the last few perecent of sales!

At Treviso they had special bus to take passengers to the Piazzale Roma (Venices bus terminal) non stop except Via Mestre station. It is even called the Ryanair bus. They also had a special plane-bus which left 3 hours before each flight. although these buses were operated by an Italian bus company they were specially chartered - also the same for Charleroi.

Not having online computers do save money on the purchase of computers/net work/security - why spend tens of thousands of pounds money on computers when you only have five flights a day all the same destinaton.They did have a std computer to issue bag labels and boarding passes but the check in girl was still ticking passengers off a list - probably because the passenger list was the most up to date list faxed from the central reservation agencies.

I only saw 3 cabin crew but I could be wrong. But even 4 staff on a 189 seat plane is still far less then on BA/BMI etc!
 
Guest

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 12:18 am

Artsyman, what a complete and utter load of bollox! FR captains are amongst the best paid in the business (well over €100k pa for the most senior). Sure, if you are a green FO with minimal hours and experience, just starting out on your career, then you will be paid commensurate with that - but they certainly don't get paid into six figures in the States as you claim!

Their biggest saving is through direct sales - by not having to pay commissions to travel agents, they save a fortune. Their biggest savings over their 'full service' competitors are on airport charges - which is why FR avoid major airports as much as they can.
 
eugdog
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:32 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 12:26 am

Of course, fleet standization, no travel agents, direct sales, high utilization, small airports are the main reason for cost control.

But I am told that Ryanair operate at one-quarter of the seat mile costs of British Airways. The other discount airlines operate at a measily one-thirds of British Airways.

I am just highlighting the difference between Ryanair and the other low cost airlines!
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 12:32 am

Their biggest saving is through direct sales - by not having to pay commissions to travel agents, they save a fortune. Their biggest savings over their 'full service' competitors are on airport charges - which is why FR avoid major airports as much as they can.

And this has other obvious benefits too.
There are 2 different kind of low-cost carrier in Europe
1)Ryanair leisure pax go from tertiary airports
2)GO,Easyjet bix pax taken away from 'flag'carriers.Fly to quite a few main airports
 
Guest

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 1:18 am

Hi, I managed to jumpseat on a Ryanair 737-800 flight to Aarhus early last year; the Captain earned 89,000 pounds, FO was earning 37,000 pounds (sterling).

In case anyone doesn't know, those are very good salaries in the UK, well above the average, and amazing considering FR is a 'low cost' airline, so it is certainly possible to make money-but they flew 6 sectors a day if I remember correctly, which must be quite tiring.

Cheers
 
daks
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:08 am

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 4:43 am

I work in a factory in Dublin , making computer's and I earn 21,000 . I very much doubt that a fully trained airline pilot earns less than me , wheter he's flying a shorts 360 or a 737-800 !!
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 4:51 am

I was refering to entry level pilots, which is apparently the 19k that I quoted.

Jeremy
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 6:05 pm

One point about airbridge:

it was told that using airbridge to board a B737 takes more time than use the stair for both the doors.
But if you look at Southwest, they use airbridge and they have a turnaround time of the plane of 20 minutes Vs. 25 for FR and 30 for EZY.

I think it's mainly a cost-cut reason.
 
gordonroxburgh
Posts: 519
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2000 8:36 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 8:36 pm

Another big thing that keeps the turnaround time short is that there is no reserved seasing on baord, passengers just get on and sit down, not stopping and starting to get to the window seats, when someone is already in the aisle seat.

It also has the effect of getting people to the gate on time as if they are last they get the bad seats that are left and if they are in a group they end up getting split up.

Got to admire them really and even more so when they are all 737-800 in the coming years.
 
eugdog
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:32 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 9:09 pm

A new book on the NO Frills airline revolution is out. It more or less says what we have said here.

But it also mentions that discount airlines do not succeed very easily in Germany because germans do not use credit cards very much. I guess you need to go to a travel agent and pay by cash! A serious impendiment to discount travel!

Incidently I have booked a 3 day trips to Italy in June (all round trip and incl tax - early morning departure and late evening return on a wednesday!)

Genoa (for the Italian riviera) -£24
Brescia (for Lake Garda!) - £28
Venice (a city to die for!!) -£60

Why stay at hotels when you can return to England for the night!!!!!!!
 
Kirstey
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 8:56 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 10:56 pm

A F/o with Ryanair can be on as little as 6K a year!! It costs 50quid to apply for a job there, if you don't have a 737 rating they lend you the money and you pay it back, likewise any JOC, MCC etc you may need. Worst case is a basic of 6k and a total of about 11k!!!

Oh and another way they save money is by keeping the plane on the ground as short a time as possible, so little things like walkarounds are not usually done by the Flight deck crew
 
Guest

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 11:16 pm

Kirstey-how important are walkarounds? I don't see Ryanair or Emirates aircraft falling out of the sky...
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 11:27 pm

Walkarounds are crucial. Remember the 757 accidents where the static ports were covered? That would have been avoided with a walkaround.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
vickybiccy
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 7:14 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 11:32 pm

I was told by a colleague that Ryanair gets fined on a regular basis for racing to the gate when they taxi. By taxing at the speed limit (or above) they cut a good few minutes on the turnaround time.

I've seen it and they don't half go fast!!
 
Guest

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 11:50 pm

I ask as a pax, I see that my previous post might have looked a tad ignorant...I would just like to know the reasons for a walkaround, and whether there is an international legal standard to these things.

Cheers
 
David_itl
Posts: 5950
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: How Ryanair Bring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 11:54 pm

Vicky

Are you really surprised at Ryanair speeding here? I still can't work out a good reason as to why they use T2 when that is as far away from the runways as possible!

David
 
Kirstey
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 8:56 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Tue May 14, 2002 11:59 pm

We're all ignorant about most things Picard - no shame in that!!

A walkaround is exactly that, a walkaround the plane, to make sure everything is where is should be, everything is in good shape and everything is screwd on OK!! A thourough walkaround (A Check) is performed before the first flight of the day, with an engineer if possible. Further checks are less thorough (kicking the tyres!), but the hull is visually inspected, the nuts and bolts of the landing gear are checked, flaps are dropped and retracted with someone watching and all the strobes and lights are checked.

It's a 20 minute job, and there is only so much you can see and do, but it all helps!
 
vickybiccy
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 7:14 pm

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Wed May 15, 2002 12:45 am

David: I had thought that too! Its not really the best place for low cost airlines!

I would have thought they would have preferred the remote stands at T1 and T3, which are really close to 24R/06L.

Perhaps it is more financially viable for them to park up at T2 and pay a bit less, than to use T1?

I was wondering if it is to do with security procedures as an Irish carrier, but they let Aer Lingus use T1 don't they.

 
Guest

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Wed May 15, 2002 2:13 am

Vicky, if you think Ryanair taxi fast, you should try flying Southwest!  Big grin
 
SunCEO
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 4:42 am

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Wed May 15, 2002 4:53 am

Re: Cabin crew, on a 40 minute flight from Dublin to Liverpool 4 crew members on A Boeing 737-200!

Rgds,
SunCEO
 
RickB
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 3:11 am

RE: How Ryanair Biring Down Costs

Wed May 15, 2002 5:46 am

I have to say im not a big fan of Ryanair, not least because on the flights I have made, it has been onboard very, very old and tired 737's. The one good thing is that a couple of months ago whilst stood inside T1 at MAN, I watched a SIA 744 takeoff from the 2nd runway, it sounded loud but most people carried on their business without noticing, the next aircraft was one of the 'older' 737's of Ryanair, as it started its run from well over 500 yards away, everyone in the terminal turned round to watch, the windows in the terminal and just about everything else where rattling and vibrating a hell of a lot. What a noise !!!