flyingbronco05
Posts: 3484
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AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 5:45 am

It seems as though American Airlines is expanding its routes once again. There will be "seven weekly flights between Dallas/Ft. Worth and Buenos Aires, Argentina."

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020521/dctu063_1.html

My question is: Will AA operate 767's, 777's or the A300 on that route and is there really a need for this route?

Thanks
Flyingbronco05
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
Frostbite
Posts: 213
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 5:51 am

777 would seem to be a little more capacity than would be warranted for a startup route to EZE at the moment. I'd guess we'll see a 763 on the route. But who knows...hurry up and wait for AA to publish schedules...

 
blink182
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 5:53 am

As for aircraft, it will definitely not be an A300 as American currently has none based at DFW.

For the route, I always thought DFW- Buenos Aires was being flown by AA. From what I know, this route probably does not need a 777, but I guess if American is going through all of this trouble to get the route authority, there must be some sort of potential for DFW-Buenos Aires, or it might be a way to decrease the loads on the Miami flight, and therefor giving passengers more of an option for connections. I am sure this route will probably be popular with a lot of people on the west coast wishing to avoid the cross-country flight to MIA.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 5:57 am

The service will almost definitley use a 767-300ER. 777-200ER is too big, while the A300 is two-class, very high-density (seat more than thier 777s), and used on dense routes between Miami and the Caribbean, Central America, Northeast, Ecuador, Mexico, and Colombia; as well as JFK and the Dominican Republic and Haiti. I don't think there are any A300s flights out of Dallas. This will compliment existing double-daily service between Buenos Aires and Miami; daily to JFK, and daily to Montevideo.

a.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 6:06 am

By adding a DFW-EZE, AA can therefore effectively increase yields on MIA-EZE and JFK-EZE. Both of those routes traditionally have incredibly high-yields*. Now lets say the owner of a tour group needs to get a group of twenty from Buenos Aires to San Francisco on the lowest fare possible in six months. Right now, they have to go through Miami. He'll find the lowest fare he can in coach, and buy twenty seats on EZE-MIA-SFO at that fare, effectlively taking away twenty coach seats that could have been purchased at the last minute (or closer to the departure day) by business travelers or VFRs. It's more complicated then that, but that's a simple way of explaining it. Opening up DFW-EZE will open up MIA/JFK-EZE to higher-yields. Not to say DFW-EZE won't make money. Cargo alone should make it a huge money maker. Another reason for the flight, as stated, is that it takes a lot of time off the travel of someone in SFO or LAX, who no longer needs to go via JFK or MIA.

*Yes, the situation is not that great that now in Argentina, but yields are traditionally high to Buenos Aires. And despite current conditions, business and first class loads are still very good from both Miami and JFK.
a.
 
Jj
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Argentina

Wed May 22, 2002 6:12 am

And everybody talks about the economical crisis in Argentina, but airlines flying to the US are not making the money from argentinians flying to USA, but from Americans flying to Argentina, who take advantage from the low price of the dollar to visit our country.
 
padcrasher
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 8:58 am

Mah

If AA is letting a consolidator have lower priced seats at the expense of premium travel that's very peculiar. They usually block out enough inventory to ensure that does not happen.

I'd be very suprised if their yield goes up as they will be relying more on the ethnic consolidator to pick up the slack out of MIA.
 
UAL747
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 9:13 am

I personally think they will use a 777-200ER. AA serves DFW-SCL with the 777, and DFW-EZE would seem like a route with more demand. Will be nice to see this route here in Dallas.
UAL747
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 11:13 am

Padcrasher, just a theory. I'm sure AA's yield management is able to avoid most of those situations. The theory was told to me by someone from Delta who told me that ATL-VCE was in the cards. This was for that JFK-VCE can pick up the higher-yield O&D traffic and ATL-VCE could pick of the tourist traffic, which hurts yields on JFK-VCE (though JFK-VCE yields are supposed to be excellent, none the less). The fact is, though, that it opens up more seats to the local Miami traffic, which will help yields.

Ual747, DFW-SCL is a 763; MIA-SCL is the 772. DFW-SCL did get a 777 for a short time, after the M11 retirement, but loads are weak. It is cargo revenue that makes the flight a huge moneymaker (which is why the MD11 was on the flight until the very end). Same with DL on ATL-SCL.
a.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 11:49 am

I'm with Mah4546 on this one... his theory is right on, IMO, and goes hand in hand with AA's capacity cuts into EZE. That MIA-EZE-MIA turn is absolutely packed, particularly on the two nights a week that American only operates one 767 into or out of EZE.

DFW will take the strain off MIA and should allow American to hold its own against Delta, which has been flying light loads lately (~65-70%) but I'm told VERY nice yields, that in addition to the revenue from what's on the lower deck.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that American will use a Pacific configured 777 on this run. They've got more of 'em than they know what to do with and they're running into problems with disappointed customers by subbing them in on flights to Europe. This is also one flight that can really take advantage of the amount of lower deck space and lift that American's heavy 777ERs provide.

That said, I would have liked to see DOT grant Delta JFK-EZE. Yes, I'm just a bit biased, but Delta has wanted this for awhile and, with the demise of UAL's JFK-EZE flight, AA has no competition in this market. That's the only downside I can see.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 1:13 pm

DeltaSFO, the allotment is only temporary (2 years) so DL could have another shot in 2004. By then, hopefully the Argentine economy would be better. Right now, even if DL got this authority, it wouldn't help DL much as the route would likely lose money for DL.

However, even when the two years is up, the carrier with the strongest case would be CO. Since they don't have any EZE flights. Of course, given the way CO bailed on the routes the first time around the FAA might just let AA keep them for good.
 
AA717driver
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 1:30 pm

Any chance this flight originates in DFW and goes through MIA--same flight number?TC
FL450, M.85
 
Purdue Arrow
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 2:46 pm

No, AA717... AA already operates 1-stop DFW-EZE service over MIA. The rights that they have been granted now will allow them to operate DFW-EZE nonstop daily, in addition to the current schedule of JFK (767 5x/week), and MIA (777 5x/week and 767 daily), bringing their total to 24 flights per week US-EZE.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Wed May 22, 2002 9:28 pm

Purdue Arrow, AA will have 28 flights a week with the DFW addition. JFK-EZE and MIA-EZE are currently only temporairly 5 and 12x a week, respectfully. They will both go daily and double-daily, respectfully, this summer. The second MIA-EZE and JFK-EZE, previously both 777s, will remain a 763 until at least October.
a.
 
blink182
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Argentina

Thu May 23, 2002 6:07 am

There was an article today in the Dallas Morning News about it and DFW-EZE will be American's second longest route from DFW as DFW-EZE is 5,100 miles. I was somewhat shocked as I thought the DFW-FRA and ZRH flights were longer than DFW-EZE.

I think a 763 will be put on this route. I feel the only real chance of a 777 seeing immediate service on the route would be for utilization as American has some spare ones.

Just out of curiosity, how long will this flight be? 12-13 hours?

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Guest

RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Thu May 23, 2002 6:31 am

Blink,

According to the Great Circle Mapper website, and assuming an average cruise speed of 460kts, the flight time DFW-EZE with a 767-300 is in the vicinity of 10 hours.

12-13 hours is the rough flight time for most Europe-EZE flights, such as with BA, AF or AZ.

The route inauguration itself is interesting, with respect to the current political, social and economic climate in Argentina; there is obviously business to be had in flying people between these two points, even in the current climate.

Cheers
 
LatinPlane
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Argentina

Thu May 23, 2002 7:23 am


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DeltaSFO

Don't forget that Aerolineas Argentinas is also flying the EZE-JFK route. However, their loads to North America are not that great. I believe they're somewhere in the mid 50s percentile.

Capt.Picard

There is still some money to be made of the people migrating from Argentina. Maybe Texas will now develop an Argentinian community like California.

 Smile LatinPlane



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baec777
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Thu May 23, 2002 9:16 am

Airbus would likely be in the eastern AA hubs only for caribbean & trans-atlantic, for this flight, i would say either 767 or 777 would do it.

baec
 
aa61hvy
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Fri May 24, 2002 6:32 am

i was thinking AA's longest route out of DFW is DFW-NRT 6426 mi... AA flight 61..  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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blink182
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RE: AA Daily Service DFW - Aregntina

Fri May 24, 2002 8:47 am

AA61hvy- you are correct.  Smile

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...