Guest

Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 2:12 pm

Read the news via http://www.justplanes.com

Wednesday May 22nd 2002 - 0100 GMT

VG AIRLINES is in the process of finalizing the purchase of a substantial interest in Dutch charter carrier AIR HOLLAND. Details are supposed to be finalized overnight and should be announced at a press conference upon VG's inaugural arrival at New York JFK this coming Thursday.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 2:21 pm

First off, "substantial interest" does not mean "taking over". Next, 51% of Air Holland must remain in Dutch hands if it wants to fly outside the EU. And third, Air Holland is financially in a very precarious position at present (and don't forget it's already gone bust ... twice!) - why on earth would VG, who haven't even started their own services yet, want to get into that particular can of worms?

It's starting to sound a bit like SAir Group to me - and we all know what happened to them!  Nuts
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 2:25 pm

A brand new airline taking an large stake in an airline that isn't in a strong financial position... sounds like a bad idea
 
ILOVEA340
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 3:12 pm

why does this remind me so much of my favorite swiss airline about 5 years ago  Sad
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 3:36 pm

This is simply Freddy Van Gaever taking some control over an airline he started. I'm sure all he wants to do is more closely allign VG and Holland to feed passengers to one another and cooperate on charter.

tnnh
 
1stspotter
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 5:16 pm

Interesting news, and curious to why VG Airlines takes over an interest in Air Holland. Both airlines are active in a different market and I do not see that Air Holland will become a feeder for VG Airlines, as Air Holland main activity is flying holiday seekers to the sun.

Marcel
 
Flying_Tuur
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 5:25 pm

SAS23: *** Next, 51% of Air Holland must remain in Dutch hands if it wants to fly outside the EU. ***

I don't think this is true... 51% of Air Holland has to remain in hands of a European company (member of the EU ofcourse)... As for the EU, they really don't care if it's Dutch or Belgian, as long as it is European.

I wonder if they really bring in capital for shares, or "just" the aircraft they used last weeks as a wet lease for Air Holland ?
 
1stspotter
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 5:46 pm

Maybe it is just a way to get the VG Airlines aircraft in the air. First there was that strange deal with Armenian Airlines where VG Airlines flies Yerevan-Brussels-Los Angeles and Armenian Airlines buys seats on this flights, and now the Air Holland deal.


Hope to see an Airbus A330 in the new Air Holland livery soon


Marcel
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 6:21 pm

Hope to see an Airbus A330 in the new Air Holland livery soon




i don't! VG much nicer.

I do not see that Air Holland will become a feeder for VG Airlines, as Air Holland main activity is flying holiday seekers to the sun.

of coruse. obviously if a deal is done, air holland would likely be repositioned so it complemented vg more effectively.

Neil, your beat again! Flyin_Tuur is absolutely right. Matters not belgian, dutch, or danish, just eu. i know this and i'm not even eu!

ewww  Laugh out loud

russ

 
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apuneger
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 6:26 pm

Well,that is indeed interesting news. Guess we'll have to wait for an official statement or so.

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 7:59 pm

Yes, like Apuneger says, is this already confirmed by someone?

Rgds
Frederic
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holl

Wed May 22, 2002 8:18 pm

Contracts has been signed last night. I think VG and Air holland are making up now an official press release.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 11:24 pm

Sory, flying_tuur and TNNH ... but you're both wrong.  Laugh out loud 51% EU ownership is fine as long as you want to operate solely within the EU - but the moment you want to fly outside it then bilaterals come into effect, which invariably state that an airline must be owned and controlled by nationals of the country of registry.

These are EU rules, not member country ones. This can be confirmed by looking at the CAA's website here: http://www.caa.co.uk/cpg/airline_licensing/airline_regs/default.asp?page=749

I look forward to your apologies!  Big grin
 
LJ
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 11:31 pm

What's the problem? Just register Air Holland in belgium and you don't have any problem.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 11:41 pm

Laurens - then what's the point of doing that as they already have VG registered as a Belgian airline?
 
LJ
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Wed May 22, 2002 11:43 pm

Just read that officially Tony Gram (owner of VG airlines) will buy Air Holland. If he's smart he'll use a Dutch vehicle to buy Air Holland and thus doesn't have the ownership problems.
 
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apuneger
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 12:26 am

I can already see it:

VG Airlines + Air Holland + Sobelair

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 12:34 am

Apuneger - I hope not as there you have one airline that hasn't really started scheduled operations yet (but keeps on announcing that it will be ordering additional aircraft ... for routes it hasn't started!) and two airlines that are commercial nightmares.

I hope Tony Gram doesn't find out the hard way how true Richard Branson was when he said "I was once asked the question "how do you become a millionaire?" - the answer is be a billionaire and start an airline!"  Laugh out loud
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 1:37 am

I hope he does not take over SLR!!!!!

Again, this is just like Swissair: buying everything, and than go bankrupt.

Rgds
Frederic
 
OO-VEG
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 2:09 am

VG airlines was becomming a familiar face at Dutch airports. So it isn't veryy surprising to see them taking over Air Holland.

But what will happen to the Air Holland color scheme????
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 2:23 am

All that VG were doing was wetleasing their A330 - that's no reason to look at buying Air Holland!  Nuts
 
LJ
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 2:27 am

Wasn't Tony Gram also interested in Sabena Technics?

BTW isn't it strange that Air Orange has desined the livery for both airlines........... Is this a coincidence....

Regards
Laurens
 
Established02
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 2:44 am


Today you can find an interesting interview (in Dutch!) with Freddy Van Gaever in the Belgian newspaper "De Standaard". There are however no details about the Air Holland deal.

http://www.standaard.be/r.asp?ID=DST22052002_102&p=/nieuws/economie/

Regards,

Established02


 
airDD
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 2:50 am

Am I correct in assuming that Air Holland only has 2 757's

So it is a very small airline, smaller than VG  Smile

airDD

 
LJ
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 2:52 am

Well it's not an official press release but Freddy did say that Tony is buying a certain share of HLN

News story in Dutch:
http://nu.nl/document?n=56950
http://www.standaard.be/Nieuws/Economie/index.asp

Regards
Laurens
 
LJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 2:53 am

AirDD Air Holland has only 1 B757
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holl

Thu May 23, 2002 3:39 am

YES I did design the VG and new Air holland livery recently and NO I was not aware and informed about this VG-move. I was astonished to read that news this morning but hey this is commercial aviation. Things happens everyday.
 
A320-addict
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 4:24 am

He by the way guys, tomorrow is the first flight of VG to JFK no??


He Pressclub will you be able to provide us with a nice tripreport on this flight?


 Big grin


AA  Big grin
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 4:52 am

Here is the first VG Airlines flight of tomorrow to New York:

IV 001 NEW YORK (JFK) 11:30 OOS

Will it be the Delsey Jet?

Rgds
Frederic
 
SN-A330
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holl

Thu May 23, 2002 4:59 am


Hi,

The news about the takeover of Air Holland by Tony Gram should be on Belgian Business Television 'Kanaal Z' tonight. I'll have a look and see what else they say.

It's absolutely unclear to me what Tony Gram is trying to do with the combination VG Airlines / Air Holland / Sobelair / Sabena Technics. Can anyone have a guess on what he's up to ? Maybe he'll buy KLM, SNBA and VEX next week, who knows?  Laugh out loud  Insane

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
pressclub
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 5:05 am

Sorry, Airbus 320 Addict and co

I can't make a tripreport for airliners.net or for my newspaper.

Mr Van Gaever did not invite me or my newspaper for his inaugural flight. It seems that he has a blacklist. On that list: the names of journalists who ask questions about the financial structure of the company, about how he reacts to the Civil Aviation Administration, about the start capital, his years at VLM, ...

But many colleagues - invited together with their wife and well pampered - participate and i am convinced that it will be all in the news the coming days.

I shall definitely covering the event via the newswires and i will follow as always the neutral and independent approach my readers and you all here deserve.


Pressclub







 
SN-A330
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holl

Thu May 23, 2002 5:08 am



Keep us informed Pressclub !  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
vfw614
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 7:03 pm

Pressclub,

could you shed some light into why FVG blacklists people asking about his years at VLM ? What were the circumstances under which he left the company / sold it to Jaap Rosen Jacobson ? Setting up the airline and making it the "LCY airline" was a nice achievement, thus I am curious why he seems to be so bitter about it.

 
slz396
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 7:21 pm

Did you hear the rumours about the reason why Tony Gram took over Air Holland?

Well, VG Airlines and its 2 A330s did some charter flights for the almost bankrupt Dutch charter airline over the last weeks in the hope of generating some quick cash with their planes sitting idle at Brussels until recently.

However, Air Holland recently indicated they can not pay the bill for these wet lease flights so they offered Tony Gram shares in the company as compensation.

At first Tony Gram was not keen on this, but finally he accepted it anyway because apparently it was on a take it or leave it basis... and after all: it is better to get some almost worthless shares then nothing at all, isnt' it?

Only rumours, but trust me: 99,9% of it will be true!!!
Gives you a different view on all this, isn't it?

 
jwenting
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 7:57 pm

If that's the reason, it is as I expected. At the very least he'll be getting some routes, landing rights at several European airport (including the grand prize, Schiphol), and a reasonably new 757-200 (though maintenance might not be good, given from what I've heard about the ones Martinair got from AH a few years back...).
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 8:10 pm

Slz396 - something similar happened with me many years ago, when a carrier I leased a DC8 to was unable to pay its bills because its CEO had run off with all its money. I was offered the company in lieu of payment, but despite attempts at recuscitation it was beyond help.

For short ad-hoc charters such as these, one would have expected VG to have received payment up front - shows incredibly poor management not to do that! I hear that it's due to non payment of debts that Britannia have not released the aircraft they are holding - so if Tony wants his 'investment' in Air Holland to yield anything more valuable than some pretty share certificates, he will have to pump in a few million more €s into this operation as well.

jwenting - the 757 does not belong to Air Holland, and if the lessor is not being paid either for it, you can expect that to disappear as well!!
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 8:29 pm

What Pressclub states doesn't astonish me AT ALL !!!

This VG Airlines is itself very UNCLEAR !! My opinion is that the money is black money or money coming from a money laundring organization. I am not laughing... Why do you think the Belgian Civil Aviation took so long to give him an AOC ???


Anyway Pressclub, it means VG doesn't deserve your coverage !!  Wink/being sarcastic


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Thu May 23, 2002 8:47 pm

The reason the Belgian CAA took so long to give him his AOC and OL was because he did not comply with their requirements in terms of business plans and financial projections.

Part of the process of airline certification is an investigation into the ultimate source of funding - it's EU mandated to ensure that EU airlines are controlled by EU nationals. This would have brought up any 'black' money being involved - and if it was, I am sure they would not have certified VG.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holl

Fri May 24, 2002 5:25 am

Perhaps I'm blacklisted too because I was not invited for the inaugural flight despite the promise of mr. Freddy Van Gaever himself.

Air Orange
The designer of the VG Airlines AND Air holland livery 2002
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Fri May 24, 2002 3:48 pm

Air Orange, I'm really surprised to hear that as there were apparently only 5 paying pax on board the flight - the remainder were guests of the airline. I'd have thought that the designer of the livery would have been an important person to honour on such a flight!! Perhaps you should contact FvG and find out what happened...
 
Guest

SAS23

Fri May 24, 2002 4:13 pm

Because now they have the livery design I suppose I'm not interesting anymore for VG Airlines, I do not know. Anyway I was very surprised too and I felt like if a dog runned over my Sunday shoes... but hey look on the bright side, there are worse things in life than this. I now know who Freddy Van Gaever is!
 
luchtzak
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Fri May 24, 2002 6:41 pm

Hi everybody,

Pressclub and Air_Orange are disappointed, I hope in a few months time they don 't disappoint the colleagues who are working with VG and that he also doesnt' dissappoint all the colleagues who want to start flying again....

Kind regards
luchtzak
 
pressclub
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Fri May 24, 2002 7:26 pm

Hi luchtzak, I will not change my approach due to this.

Thanks to the newswires i could gather some info about the flight. I just share it with you without comments coz i can't control this info.

x until now VG Airlines has sold 150 tickets

x Flights to Florida and LA are under study. VG Airlines is also interested in Capetown.

x the flights are not yet bookable via the reservation systems of the travel agents (amadeus, sabre, worldspan, ... )

x according to the businessplan VG airlines forecasts a profit of 25 million euro in 2007.

x Tony Gram is no longer interested in Sabena Technics. "They will have difficut times in the near future coz i think that Virgin Express will stop the maintenance collaboration with SN Technics next year", he says.

Regards

Pressclub
 
manni
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Fri May 24, 2002 7:34 pm

On a positive note...

I spotted the aircraft today at the tarmac in BRU, Sabena handling was loading the aircraft. All cargo positions were taken. This will keep the money coming in and reduce, if not eliminate, the losses when they have so few passengers.

I seam to remember reading on this forum a while ago that CX uses its A330s and 777s as freighters during the night between HKG and various destinations in Japan. This in order to make money rather than keep the aircraft grounded during the night. So VG might also be profitable with a full cargo load and no passengers.

Anyone know the exact figures to that? Wether they can break even with a full cargo load?

Ceilidh mentioned that €100000 is needed for one return flight. How much cargo can the A330 take in KGS?
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Fri May 24, 2002 11:32 pm

Luchtzak - I suspect that VG will not see the end of the year, unfortunately.

Manni - cargo rates on the North Atlantic are extremely depressed at the moment at under US$0.50/kg (loads of capacity and not a lot of takers ... we're in a recession, remember!) I would suspect that what you saw were LD3 containers, which may or may not have been empty: aircraft fly with all positions filled regardless in order to stop them moving around in flight; and also in case they are required at the other end for baggage or cargo.

An A330 should be able to take around 20 tonnes of cargo with a full load of passengers.
 
slz396
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Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:01 am

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Fri May 24, 2002 11:56 pm

indeed, cargo can be an interesting extra, but it should not be your primary source of income on a passenger airplane... certainly not on transatlantic routes!

SN has cargo capacity on offer to/from Africa too, but they do not depend on it to be profitable. It merely helps them to create a buffer and to allow them to fly to less popular routes too like Monrovia, Luanda etc... without to much commercial risk.
 
pressclub
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Fri May 24, 2002 11:57 pm

VG's flights to Boston delayed until june 20
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Sat May 25, 2002 12:14 am

They still don't have their slots for BOS???
They said they would get them this week!

Rgds
Frederic
 
slz396
Posts: 1883
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RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Sat May 25, 2002 12:31 am

They have said so much...
they are nothing more than amateurs, not professionals, haven't you understood it by now?
 
LJ
Posts: 4114
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Breaking NEWS: VG Airlines Takes Over Air Holland

Sat May 25, 2002 12:41 am

Slz396, i don't think you can classify VG as a bunch of amateurs. If they were Tony Gram wouldn't buy them up.

Someway I think that Tony Gram will succeed in a way to keep VG flying. Scheduled or non-scheduled I don't know but his track record in turning things around is pretty good. Moreover Tony's involvement in Air Holland signals he's at least very interested in aviation.

Regards
Laurens