New Australia-US Flights?

Sun Sep 19, 1999 2:05 pm

When will more airlines start flying between Australia and the US, currently only United Airlines, Air New Zealand and Qantas fly in their own right. Why does not Northwest, Delta, Continental or USairways begin servicing Australia. Especially inlight of the recent liberalisation of Aviation policy by the Federal Government of Australia.
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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Sun Sep 19, 1999 2:49 pm

I reckon not too many more will.

The routes are hghly lucrative but if say 2 more airlines started flying, flights would become less full and airlines make less profits.

I however believe that in the next few years there would be space for 1-2 more airlines if the others don expand too rapidly,
Such as:
-Ansett Australia
-northwest Airlines
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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Sun Sep 19, 1999 2:51 pm

Other US majors don't fly to Australia because of marginal profitability. AA used to fly to Australia using DC-10s; CO used to fly to Australia using DC-10s and 747s; NW used to fly to Australia with 744s. Until the mid-1980s Pan Am used to fly to Australia (routes that were eventually sold to UA).

US Airways has not got the equipment to fly to Australia non-stop. DL is not interested in having a foreign base so far away. QF, UA and NZ combined fly about 40 flights per week each way between Australia and the US. This is not enough for an airline like DL to try and compete. Capacity is better put on the North Pacific and North Atlantic.

The recent liberalisation of air traffic policies in Australia affects services to cities other than Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane. Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane are the only cities worth flying to from the US - especially direct services. As such other centres such as Cairns, Darwin and Adelaide are undesirable and Perth too far west. Therefore new services by US majors is uneconomic.

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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Sun Sep 19, 1999 3:00 pm

Continental Mirconesia flies between Carins and Guam (US Territory) with B737-800 equipment, so there is a 4th carrier flying nonstop between the US and Australia  
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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Sun Sep 19, 1999 3:07 pm

You won't see USAirways fly this route any time soon. Number 1, no suitable equipment to fly this extremely long haul run. The A330-300's start flying early 2000, but even these aircraft do not have the range to fly non-stop LAX-SYD. The 330's will be concentrated primarily on the continued european expansion. That seems to be where all the high yield traffic is for USAirways. Since Steven Wolf is a former UA alumni, I wouldn't be surprised to see options for the new longer range 340-500 or -600 models, which they have the right to substitute after the first 7 330's are delivered. I personally don't see that for at least another couple of years. This business is full of surprises, though. I'm surprised that US didn't opt for the 777 to be honest.
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Ravi & Distances Between US And Australia

Sun Sep 19, 1999 3:15 pm

Cairns is the closest major city in Australia to the US.

SFO (closest major city in continental US to Australia) - CNS: 6103nm
ANC (closest major city in North America to Australia) - CNS: 5568nm
HNL (closest major city in any US state to Australia) - CNS: 4030nm

USAirways B767-200ERs, being CF6-80C2B2 powered, have a range of 6670nm +reserves. So, USAirways can fly from the Continental US to Australia.
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RE: Ravi & Distances Between US And Australia

Sun Sep 19, 1999 3:29 pm

You'll find that the range of the 203-seat configured US Airways 767-200ERs is limited. From what I know of these birds they are not certified to the full -200ER MTOW, and suffer a further range penalty than what you've quoted.

Regardless, US-Australia flights are subject to up to -30 knot winds and therefore a US Airways' 762ER would require to be in the air for more than an hour longer than in still air conditions. Payload is severely restricted with 203 seats.

Having said all this you are most correct - it is entirely possible for US Airways to use 767-200ERs from SFO to CNS. Knowing what I do about Tourism Queensland, I wouldn't be surprised that they'd be happy to hear of this scenario! TQ is trying to get more traffic to fly direct to CNS.

Yields would be so poor, however, that such a scenario is still wishful thinking. Flying direct to BNE would be bad enough, and CNS even worse. And then there's always the 744s of UA, QF and NZ squashing the unit costs of a trans-Pacific 767 into oblivion.


In all - I stand corrected, sir.

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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Sun Sep 19, 1999 10:53 pm

I think the time is ripe for another carrier on the US/Australia route. Up until the early 1990s we had AA,(from Dallas), NW(which bought Hawainns rights), CO and CP flying down here. CO even operated a non-stop Honolulu-Melbourne service, and NW had a New York-Tokyo-Sydney service which caused such a controversy. These were all loss-makers ,and at the time the Australian economy was in a recession. But now I think another carrier can easily add some healthy competition. Ansett is supposedly planning flights there. Or even CO ould return with a daily B777 serviceperhaps on a SFO/HNL/SYD and SFO/HNL/AKL routing. I knew DL were keen to fly here when NW withdrew, but that changed. No doubt Sydney will be the preferred destination. I would like to see the airlines offer a direct service to a port other than Los Angeles.Say San Fran, Houston, Chicago or Dallas.
Remember when NZ flew Auckland/Dallas in the 80s? That was a total loss maker.
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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Mon Sep 20, 1999 12:36 am

I would like to see Canada-Australia Flights. (I'm not sure about range) but I think Air Canada's A340-500 could do it if they were ER. (The A340-500's are still on order). This route would make sense because of both countries being in the commonwealth, no passport needed, our dollar is pretty much equal to theirs. And with Ansett joing Star, this should seem like a good move.
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RE: New Australia-Canada Flights?

Mon Sep 20, 1999 4:31 am

The A340-500 can fly from Toronto to Australia in perfect conditions, but we all know that doesn't ever happen.

The A340-500 can fly from Vancouver to any point in Australia, but Perth would be pushing it.

RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Mon Sep 20, 1999 9:37 am

You will not see an AC A340 in Aussie-land anytime soon as CP has the rights........The fed gov is very protective towards CP. There is a rule about the number of pax per year between 2 countries before a route can be granted to a second carrier. That maximum is reached with Mexico -and that those not even include charter flights- but the government has passed a decree to deny rights to another carrier.......that would be AC, CP being the one with the rights...It has been said that the failure to operate a route would mean that the rights could be transferred to another carrier, but CP does operate flights to SYD with a codeshare agreement with QF and a change of AC in Honolulu.
About Ansett, are'nt they starting flights to the US but only through codeshare with UA? I could be wrong on that last one though........
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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Mon Sep 20, 1999 10:01 am

I MUST disagree. The 8,500nm range of the A340-500 with 313 pax is in Airbus configuration. Add 10-13 tonnes of airline requirements on board, and give the standard -30 knot winds travelling west from North America and the airplane is only capable of Vancouver-East Coast Australia. ADL and even MEL are pushing the limits.

Although I am reminded of the non-stop Vancouver to Sydney flight by a QF 747-400 back in the early 1990s (VH-OJL???). It was a brand new airplane with a payload restriction and excellent weather. However, it hadn't been outfitted with all the goodies that QF packs into its new airplanes when they arrive.


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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Mon Sep 20, 1999 10:04 am

With AA originally buying 12 777, obviously to replace all MD-11s. BUT, when the order was increased to 34 they stated it was to increase service in the Pacific. I think this could be the start of more East Coast to Asia services, after AA got the rights to fly BOS and JFK-NRT taken away from them by the Japanese gov't, and East coadt to HNL. I also see Seoul after Inchon Int'l opens, and I see AUSTRALIA. I agree that the time is right for more US-Australia services and some new blood to do it, plus as we all know, the animals always go after the new blood for the kill. So it could go either way. But if AA does decide to return to the Aussie market, I coul see Brisbane, Sydney, or Cairns-San Jose. San Jose offers less congestion than its nearby counterpart, SFO and no-so-close LAX. Plus it already has 777 service to NRT. AA-to be something special in the Australian air.
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Mon Sep 20, 1999 10:10 am

I'm not sure how to say this delicately, so I won't. I've just completed an interim report for a particular Australian government department wishing to see the economics of the USA-CNS/BNE routes. The business isn't there - especially via HNL or even AKL. Only non-stop services to SYD or MEL are anywhere near being profitable enough to fly.

AA, CO, DL and UA are smart enough to realise that without anyone sitting up the front there's no point servicing Australia.
v jet
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RE: New Australia-US Flights?

Mon Sep 20, 1999 12:13 pm

Sorry AC-A340. A passport is required for travel between Canada
and Australia regardless that both places are members of
the Commonwealth.
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RE: New Oz-US Flts: LH423 / YMQ

Mon Sep 20, 1999 11:13 pm

YMQ - yes - AN will start codeshare services with it's own flight numbers soon. They will be coding on all 21 weekly UA non-stops, the 7 weekly NZ non stops from SYD-LAX, and NZ services from MEL and BNE via AKL to LAX.
LH423 - AA has been here and gone again 3 times in the past. On each occasion they never lasted much longer than 18 months. As they code on almost every QF and FJ flight "down under", I'd gather that they are happy enough with that at the moment. *If* they decide to come on down again, they'd be best to choose another route other than LAX-SYD as their good mates from QF already swamp that route.
In response to another poster, I agree totally about BNE and CNS not having any traffic to support these routes - even with a small capacity long range aircraft.
The only way they might work is if someone can tag a Melbourne service via either city, or say BNE 4 times a week and CNS the other three. As Melbourne is now getting non-stops, then this probably won't work now either.
Cheers 'n Regards.

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