Arsenal@LHR
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Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:00 am

Can someone tell me which airports have runways with simultaneous landings or take-offs?

rdgs
Arsenal@LHR
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Guest

RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:11 am

Munich has it.
Guess ATL, IAD and LAX have them as well.
 
744rules
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:18 am

bru uses 25l for landing and 25r for take-off simultaniously
 
fritzi
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:20 am

SFO has it
........
 
trickijedi
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:22 am

SFO uses Runway 28L and 28R for simultaneous landings.

ORD almost all the time uses 27L and 27R for simultaneous landings and sometimes 9R and 9L for simultaneous takeoffs.
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:23 am

It's a pity LHR hasn't, it would so brilliant seeing 2 planes taking off at the same time!

Arsenal@LHR
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John
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:23 am

DFW, SFO, JFK, CLT, DEN, FRA, AMS, MCO, ORD, HKG.....to name a few.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:29 am

Most airports with parrallel runways do... as well as many with intersecting runways if LAHSO is in effect.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:32 am

XFSUgimpLB41X,

What is LAHSO?

Arsenal@LHR
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timz
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:48 am

You're asking where one can see two aircraft taking off simultaneously, or two landing simultaneously-- not just one landing as another takes off? I suppose that would be somewhat unusual at a two-runway airport. Seems to me that even at JFK simultaneous takeoffs are not at all common, tho simultaneous landings are.
 
Guest

RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:50 am


FRA does NOT have it. They have to keep a few seconds in between as the parallel runway are too close together.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:55 am

Somehwhere like DFW/ORD or LAX will have it, as they have more than 2 or 3 runways. You cant have simultaneous take off or landings with just 2 runways.

Arsenal@LHR
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777kicksass
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 12:57 am

I'm sure the spacing at LHR does allow it!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 1:05 am

If runway 23 was used at LHR, then it might be possible.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
ptica2000
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 1:21 am

Why FRA doesn't have simultaneous landings. Runways 28 L and R at SFO are also very close to each other and they have simultaneous TO/LDG.

I think Osaka Kansai also have it and also NRT will have it soon.
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 1:28 am

What about LAX? They have parrallel runways.


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broke
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 1:30 am

This is hearsay more than a known fact. If an airport has parallel runways that are at least 1 mile apart, then parallel approaches and departures are acceptable. ORD is unusual in having simultaneous approaches and departures on intersecting runways. If I remember correctly, they have 3 pairs of parallel runways and each pair pretty much intersects the other 2 pairs. This is fine in good weather, but in bad weather the separation is increased and can lead to traffic delays. ATL has 4 parallel runways (maybe 5 by now). 2 North of the terminals and 2 South. The runways closest to the terminals are usually used for departures only, so backed up traffic does not have to cross an active runway. The outer runways are usually used for landings only. If one runway is closed then the rule is not used and I've heard that they were going to build another runway so 4 runways are open all the time. At times a runway is closed for maintenance or for an inspection, which is the reason ATL was going to 5.
 
roguetrader
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 1:36 am

Out of the 7 runways at DFW, 5 are parallel. I routinely see 3 aircraft on final approach simultaneously to 3 parallel runways. Does any other airport have this capability?

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Guest

RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 1:39 am


Afaik FRA's runways are only around 550m apart which is far to less to have complete simultaneous landings possible.
 
doug
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 1:59 am

I saw on numerous occasions 4 landings at the same time at DFW.
 
N79969
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 2:00 am

They have it at Tokyo Haneda.
 
trickijedi
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 2:05 am

Out of the 7 runways at DFW, 5 are parallel. I routinely see 3 aircraft on final approach simultaneously to 3 parallel runways. Does any other airport have this capability?

ORD will soon have it assuming everything gets approved with its new development plans. If everything goes well, ORD will have something like 6 parallel runways, two of which will be dedicated for take-offs.
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
777-200
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 3:30 am

They have it at CVG to.

Greg
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propatriamori
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 3:42 am

I believe LAHSO means "Land And Hold Short Of" the intersecting runway...

 
UA_727
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 3:43 am

LAHSO = "land and hold short" Operations.
"AW - I'm on Board..."
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 4:05 am

Thank you UA_727 and Propatriamori.

Arsenal@LHR
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SQ772
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 5:06 am

I am not too sure what you mean by simultaneous take off/landings... but when I was just 1 min to touchdown in MSP on 30R on Sunday, there was a NW 727 aircraft just beside our aircraft flying parallel to us (guess it was about to land on 30L?). Is that what you mean by simultaneous landing? It was pretty awesome to see another aircraft flying just beside us. We were pretty close to each other too!
There's always a better way to fly...
 
sk945
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 5:11 am

ARN will have the possibility when opening the 3rd runway sometime this year.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 5:33 am

If the parrallel runways are less than a mile you can have a simultaneous approaches in progress.. there is a special type of ILS called PRM.... it requires special training but allows that. PRetty much all airports that have parrallel runways have simultaneous approaches.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
OH-LZA
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 5:37 am

Helsinki-Vantaa will have that kind of operations from November 28th, when the new runway 04L/22R opens.

Alexander
 
fly_emirates
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 5:46 am

i guess

STL, IAD, LAX and LHR, in addition to Amsterdam
 
tortuga
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 5:51 am

No guessings needed.

LAX does have simultaneous landings cuz I've been on one.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 5:52 am

Detroit DTW has four parallel runways. Runways 21L and 22R are used for landings while 21R and 22L are used for takeoffs during peak times. Sometimes during peak landing times three runways will be used for landings at once, usually 22R 22L and 21L
 
flightsimfreak
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 7:44 am

These distance restrictions are only in IMC or with IFR aircraft flying IFR approaches. I believe that if one aircraft can see the other, or they both can see each other, then there is no mimimum distance apart. I've flown a pattern simultaniously with another skipper from my flight school, we were almost exactly parallel on final, I on 21L, he on 21R. The runways are only 200-300 feet apart.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 7:58 am

SQ772,

Yeah, that's what i meant, 2 planes landing or taking off at the same time.

Arsenal@LHR
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MDCJets
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Fri May 24, 2002 8:32 am


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OlympicATH
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Sun May 26, 2002 12:21 am

ATH (New Athens International) has 2 runways (4 km each) that enable simultaneous landings/take-offs (1575 meters between runways):


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UALPHLCS
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Sun May 26, 2002 10:14 am

PHL has parallel runways, and operates landing all the time. In addition on June 2nd PHL becomes the 3rd airport in the world to have a new Raytheon radar system that will enable parallel landings in poor weather even w/ the runways closer than 4000 ft.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
saxman66
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Sun May 26, 2002 11:11 am

Here are some numbers:
In order to have a simultanious landing by two aircraft landing on two parallel runways, the runways must be 4,200 ft apart. They must be 2,500 apart in order for two planes to do a staggered approach; that is each plane can't be right next to each other.
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VH-DAQ
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Mon May 27, 2002 12:19 am

I dunno if you care about any australian airports but i know Sydney does, ive been on a simultaneous landing, me being in a 737-300 and there was a sunstate shorts 360 (i think)

HOOroo
DAQ
 
flightsimfreak
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Mon May 27, 2002 3:32 am

All you know it all's need to buy a copy of the FAR/AIM before you go blabbing you brains here. All, yes I mean all airports with parallel runways are capable of parallel landings. The minima you speak of are for simultaneous ILS approaches to parallel runways. That doesn't matter according to his original post. In VMC with two VFR aircraft, the runways can be 10 feet apart and there can be a simultaneous approach going on. As long as the aircraft can see each other, then the approach is O.K. Get it? Now go buy a copy of the book. It'll be 25 dollars well spent, and when you actually start flying, it may help you! Also, you won't have to listen to the "experts" here, you can look it up for yourself.
 
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PW100
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Mon May 27, 2002 5:48 am

FlightSimFreak
Parallel runways are NOT necessarily required for simultaneous approaches. At AMS, during inbound peaks, two runways are used for inbound flights, usually this will be a combination of 06 and 01R [with 01L for outbound traffic], or 19R and 27 [24 outbound]. However, exotic combinations like 06 and 27 are also possible for inbound and 01L outbound. This all depends on weather conditions, runway availability, and noise abatement procedures in place.
However these approach patterns are known as "dependent simultaneous approaches", which do NOT require parallel runways. They do require coordination of inbound traffic of both runways. Meaning for example, if an aircraft was approaching for 06, but has to make a go around, it will cross traffic on 01R. So the traffic on 01R is staggered relative to the traffic on 06. These approach patterns are highly efficient: usually AMS can receive up to 35-40 inbounds per runway per hour [plus approx 35-40 outbounds], depending on aircraft mix.

However if you're looking for INDEPENDENT simultaneous approaches [which I guess Arsenal@LHR was getting to], then parallel runways are required. In full IFR conditions, centreline separation of 4300 ft minimum is required. In visual conditions, the minimum is reduced depending on *weather conditions, *surveillance radar available, *ILS category available, *runway lighting, *runway markings etc,etc.

Parallel runways with insufficient centreline spacing can handle dependent parallel approaches. Usually separation between inbound aircraft [for one runway] is 3-3.5 NM. Closely separated parallel runways will allow separation minimum down to 2-2.5 NM, where inbound aircraft are staggered between both runways, resulting in 4-5 NM between every aircraft for each runway.
BTW, this 4-5 NM separation can be sufficient to squeeze in a departure after every landing aircraft, thereby doubling airfield capacity [50% landings, 50% take-offs]! In fact this is about the most efficient use of two runways!

PW100
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timz
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FlightSimFreak

Mon May 27, 2002 10:23 am

I didn't spend $25, but take a look at http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/4275/4/

In the last message there's a link that seems to set minimum runway spacing for VFR ops. It's still a mystery, tho.
 
HHHramp
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Mon May 27, 2002 10:51 am

I have a question about the differences between airport layouts like the ones at MSP and DFW...

MSP has a parallel set of runways which are both used for simultaneous take-off and landing. This set-up allows for a plane to land while another plane waits to take-off on each.

Whereas, DFW has sets of parallels allowing for one from each pair to be used for take-offs and the other for landing.

What are the two types of operations called?

I saw the post about the AIM. No need to bring that up as the stores are closed for the holiday. Besides, if people didn't want to ask or answer questions, they would not be here.

S
 
SailorOrion
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RE: Simultaneous Landings/Take-offs

Mon May 27, 2002 3:51 pm

Parallel runways with a spacing of more than 5000ft (4300 in USA) can be treated as independent runways and can therefore support simultaneous landings and takeoffs.

SailorOrion

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