clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 4:24 am

The conception is always that flying is safe. Thankfully we can say it is for those of us who work in the industry.

However statistics or perhaps even perception was once that flying was safe only outside of Africa or perhaps South America.
Now its Asia's turn. Take a look.

August 6, 1997
Korean Air Lines Flight 801, a Boeing 747 en route from Seoul to Guam, with 254 people aboard crashed and burned in a rugged, hilly area of Guam. About 30 people survived the crash.

September 26, 1997
Indonesian Garuda Airlines Flight 152 crashed as it approached Medan airport on the island of Sumatra, Indonesia, killing all 234 people aboard.

December 19, 1997
More than 100 people on board perished when Singaporean Silk Air Flight 185 nose-dived into swampy Musi River on the Indonesian island of Sumatra.

February 2, 1998
Cebu Pacific Air Flight 387 crashed into Mount Sumagaya in the Philippines, killing all 104 people on board.

December 11, 1998
Thai Airways Airbus Flight 261 carrying 146 people slammed into a flooded rubber plantation as it made a third attempt to land at the airport in Surat Thani in southern Thailand en route from Bangkok, killing 101 people.

February 24, 1999
All 64 people on board a China Southwest Airlines domestic flight were killed when the plane crashed in eastern China. The Russian-built Tupolev 154 was flying from Chengdu in the southwestern province of Sichuan to the eastern city of Wenzhou when it exploded shortly before landing.

August 22, 1999
Taiwanese carrier China Airlines Flight 642, an MD-11 en route from Bangkok, with 315 people aboard flipped over on landing at Hong Kong's Chek Lap Kok airport. The plane burst into flames, killing three passengers and leaving 206 injured.

October 31, 2000
Singapore Airlines Flight 006 bound for Los Angeles exploded in a fireball in Taiwan's Chiang Kai-Shek International Airport killing 83 people. Singapore Airlines has admitted pilot error and took full responsibility for the Boeing 747-400 crash.

July 3, 2001
A Russian Tupolev 154 plane, belonging to Vladivostok Avia company, crashed near the Siberrian city of Irkutsk. More than 130 passengers and nine crew were killed.

April 15, 2002
Air China Flight 129 slammed into a mountain in South Korea as it was preparing to land at an airport near the port city of Busan. There were 166 people on board the Boeing 767-200. More than 30 people survived the crash.

And now China Airlines 611.

What conclusions you may draw from all this if any, are certainly your own.
But the facts are undiniable, Asia has been hit hard in recent years.

For more info on Asia air travel check www.cnn.com. All the above reports were highlighted by them.

Clipper(choosing an Asian carrier wisely)Hawaii



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
manni
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 6:05 am

I could guess that CNN would come up with that kind of crap. Statistics have no value here. Another conclusions you can make of this is that nearly all chrashes mentioned involved American build aircraft. Does that mean that it is safer to fly on an Airbus? Certainly not. So far the value of your summary.
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clipperhawaii
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 6:57 am

My summary certainly has value, which by the way is reported by many sources not just CNN. What I want to show is the increasing number of aircraft accidents that have caused the loss of so many lives. As I said what conclusions you may draw up are certainly your own. Hopefully eyes will be opened that the current trend is more accidents are happening in Asia and on Asian airlines. Lets hope it stops by having our Asian counterparts in the industry loose some of the (can't happen here) attitude which seems to be pervasive. That of course is from what I have seen. That statement may not please some of you but I stand by it.
ClipperHawaii
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
manni
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 7:32 am

Wathever you say.

Have a look at this....

1/9/97 Comair 29/29
8/7/97 Fine Air MD80 4/4
6/1/99 American MD82 12/143
1/31/00 Alaska Airlines MD83 88/88
2/16/00 Emery worldwide DC8 3/3
9/11/00 American 767-200 92/92
9/11/00 United 767-200 65/65
9/11/00 American 757-200 64/64
9/11/00 United 767-200 45/45
11/12/01 American A300 260/260

(taken from airdisaster.com)

These are only chrashes of aircraft of a reasonable size and with fatalities. Pretty bad isn't it? 10 disasters in 4 years from one country wich has about 220 million people.

Asia inhabits about 3 quarters of the worlds population, so statisticly you're less likely to die in an aircraft accident in Asia than in the US.

But to make sure you'll never die in an aircraft accident I suggest to avoid both American an Asian carriers, ooh and dont fly on European airlines either, they are pretty bad too aswell as African and South American Airlines.

PS, did you also notice that 9 out of 10 aircraft involved in the above mentioned disasters are once again american manufactured?
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clipperhawaii
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 7:44 am

Perception is a wonderful thing is it not?
Aloha ka kou!
Clipperhawaii
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
A388
Posts: 7194
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 7:47 am

Manni,

"9/11/00 American 767-200 92/92"
"9/11/00 United 767-200 65/65"
"9/11/00 American 757-200 64/64"
"9/11/00 United 767-200 45/45"

These crashes were terrorist attacks. These crashes should not be considered as crashes caused by the aircraft themselves. These aircraft were in good condition and did not crash because of mechanical failure or pilot error. Therefore it's unjustified to count these crashes as "regular crashes". They fall in the category terrorist attacks. These crashes influenced the entire world, not just the Americas. Please look at the causes of crashes before counting them as crashes which make the aircraft themselves unsafe.


 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 7:53 am

Point well made A388. Also you can remove the 2 cargo flights as no pax were on them. Not that it lessens their disaster. Again my hope is for air safety for all carriers and regions.

Safe flight concerns us all.
ClipperH
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 7:58 am

I've noticed a 100% correlation between aicraft accidents of all types and years beginning with 19-- or 20--. I'd hold off flying until the years begin with 21--. Even at that, it might be best to postpone your trip until you see how 21-- shakes out; if it looks bad, 22-- might be a better bet.

Can you imagine the perils of a trip to the Orient from the US only 100 years ago? You might have died of smallpox in a crowded ship within days of your departure on your 2 month voyage from San Francisco to Singapore. Boiler explosions got a lot of people, too; no standards exisisted for boiler pressure gauges or even a requirement that ships have them. Shall I go on?
 
BFS
Posts: 700
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 10:23 am

A388,
don't think I am making excuses for these horrific disasters, but it is all a rich tapestry. The point is that even though these aircraft were in, to the best of our knowledge, perfect condition, the fact of the matter is they were operating in an environment which permitted terrorists to do there sordid deeds. Similarly, it seems to be the case that Asian airlines operate in an enviroment that permits things to go wrong more than they should. At the end of the day both enviroments have problems that MUST be addressed!

Just my opinion.
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 10:57 am

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics

The actual number of crashes is relatively meaningless in terms of safety. Instead, what you should be looking at is the number of fatal accidents per flight hour or per cycle, which would be much more realistic indicators of relative levels of safety. I wouldn't have a clue of these figures - perhaps someone else can fill us all in?

The recent spate of accidents reminds me of hearing, at the time of TWA800 I believe it was, that "by early next century, the number of flights worldwide will be so many that statistically there will be a major fatal accident every 2 weeks" I never believed that could be possible - now I am not so sure...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
jaysit
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 11:33 am

A388:
Unfortunately, air safety statistics do not exclude acts of terrorism when they compute air safety data for airlines. Airlines with otherwise relatively safe data records were hit hard by acts of terrorism in the 1980s. These include Air India, PanAm and UTA. The latter two are no longer, but AI has yet to shake off the negative impact of its 1985 747 bombing. Furthermore, airlines with fewer flights that travel vast distances get hit harder because statistics are computed on the basis of number of casualties/crashes per # of flights.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
trickijedi
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 12:08 pm

Clipperhawaii,

All statistics are relative. One fo the reasons you can state to doubt Asian carriers and one of the reasons you were able to name all of those Asian carriers that have crashed is because there are more carriers in Asia. So statistically speaking, the chances of an Asian carrier crashing are greater compared to that of other continents. It's like saying more red cars get into more accidents that any other color. Well, most people don't think about the fact that there are more red cars on the road than any other color. So naturally the chances of a red car getting into an accidents will be significantly greater. One possible way to be more specific in these results would be to determine the standard deviation of the number of planes relative to accidents and then run a t-test (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this process... it's been a while since I worked with statistics).
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
carmy
Posts: 590
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 9:54 pm

So I gather that ClipperHawaii is saying that we should not fly Asian carriers anymore because they're unsafe? Oh dear, I'd be damned I must say.
 
nicolasrolland
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 11:16 am

RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 10:22 pm



Sorry but I have to laugh when the "ClipperHawaii" say :

" For more info on Asia air travel check www.cnn.com. All the above reports were highlighted by them "

hehe your saying that a way so that TO learn more about Asia Air travel let's go check a american news website focused on the american interest...

and thanks to say that this kind of writing is made by cnn coz as soon as you say that it is discrediting the whole things...

Cnn might once in a while show us really good pictures like September 11... but beside that... I call that a zero knowledge editorial crew company with "sometime" good and live pictures.... ..

anyway.. Let's just say that it is sad to see accidents for asia...
coz no one in the world is better ... everyone is equally good ok?

oh and I encourage everyone here to look BBC even american I encourage you to watch this news station from UK you will see how deeper the news is and how much more wider your view will be after that  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Im just a computer guy who love commercial aviation
and love asia  Smile/happy/getting dizzy and choose to pay a little bit more to avoid travelling thru
country that smell too much the junk food  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


cya all
Nick
 
manni
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 10:30 pm

Nicolasrolland,

Me too watch BBC instead of CNN. Unless I'm after a laugh!

Good to see that the majority of people who have so far replied are able to think clear and have the capability to relativate things a bit.
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carnoc
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RE: Flying Safety In Asia

Sun May 26, 2002 11:01 pm

As a frequent flyer in Asia-Pacific region, I believe that air travel in Asia is safe, although there were a few air crashes in the last few months, but I fully reckon that this is a really unusual period for Asian civil aviation & airline industries.

By the way, I agree with many of you guys' opinion, I DON'T think CNN is much better than most television channels worldwide, I usually watch BBC, CNBC (Australia) and as well as ABC (Australia).