AlaskaMVP
Topic Author
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:41 am

Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 6:59 am

Just back from a wonderful trip to Hawaii on Hawaiian Airlines, and loved it. Their DC-10-10 was a little old (grainy movie screen) but service was great and it was a fun flight. The brand new interisland 717's were very nice (much nicer than the Aloha 737-200 we had to take Kauai-Maui, with the smallest seat pitch in the civilized world).

But on a return to Honolulu for the flight back, our 717 pilot did a curious thing. We turned into the airport from the sea, coming from the south (Maui route), and I noticed that we were approaching almost perpendicular to the runways. We just past the north end of the airport and were still off shore when suddenly the 717 heeled over and banked sharply right back towards the runway. I didn't think a plane could turn that sharply but as it did the nose dropped until we looked like we were going to dive into the sea. I started breathing when the beach houses started to flash by my window and we flared out and landed normally.

I'm a nervous flyer, but even my wife (usually rock solid) was a little freaked out by this. Is this a typical approach to Honolulu for the interisland flights, or did my pilot get her training at a "top gun" school?
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 7:06 am

Typical approach to 8L. It is called a channel approach as it procedes up the Pearl Harbor channel and then a "slight" turn to the right for 8L. It allows for more spacing and ease of traffic flow into HNL. Remember max banking in commercial aircraft is 30 degrees or so they say!
Hope you liked Hawaii!
ClipperHawaii
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 7:20 am

I had the same experience as you. I found that on every leg I did Island jumping, it felt like the pilot was descending very quickly. I suppose they climb fast and descent fast as they want to get to altitude quickly and the flights are so short. Lovely plane though. I really like the 717. Did they still have steam coming out of the vents due to the humidity ?

Jeremy
 
AlaskaMVP
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:41 am

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 7:48 am

Yes, both 717 flights had steam coming out the vents, right in the entry aisle at the front of first class. It freaked me out a little but when you have the pilots and attendants standing or sitting right there and paying it no attention I figured out it wasn't a problem.

I did like Hawaii, Maui was great (esp. hiking the volcano), Kauai was nice but unfortunately rained the whole time I was there. My only complaint was how expensive everything was, but it was worth it!
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4967
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 7:50 am

I was flying on an airtran 717 from MIA-TPA.....we began decent.....decending like the space shuttle. I had never experienced something like that before, my friend even noticed it. Must have been one of those ex-emery cowboy pilots.  Big grin
 
aq737
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2000 10:47 am

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 8:27 am

I did the same approach on a TWA 763 from Saint Louis! very cool!

Aq737

P.S. also many times, island hopping...
 
Guest

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 8:37 am

I am glad that you liked the 717s. I enjoy them as well. Did you have a cup of Guava? Yeah, I love that approach, especially in the heavies.

 Big thumbs up
 
Guest

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 2:27 pm

Flying into Zihuatenejo Mexico on an AS MD80 las year, we made it from 33,000 ft to on the ground at the gate in 10 minutes flat. It was the steepest, fastest, descent I have ever experienced on a commercial airliner. We stayed high until the last minute to stay above some thunderstorms. ZIH has very little traffic (only a few flights a day) so traffic was not a problem. We passed overhead the airport and turned downwind while still in our steep dive. The pilot then made a beautiful short field final approach, lining up with the runway and levelling out just as we reached passed over the end of the runway (just like he was flying a Cessna). It was beautiful. It was nice to see and experienced pilot who can still hand fly an airliner like that. It was beautiful!

Richard Silagi


 
HAL
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 4:03 pm

Yes, the channel approach can be a little intimidating to those who aren't expecting it. But in my time at Hawaiian, I've never seen a heavy do the channel approach into HNL. People who've been there longer than I have said that when we first got the L1011 (mid 80's) they did it, but after the Admiral at Pearl Harbor saw one of those giants doing a turn 300 feet over his house, he made sure wide bodies weren't allowed to do it again. Now it is just the 717, 737 and smaller aircraft that do the channel approach.

If there is no traffic around, ATC may 'expedite' your approach into HNL if you are a heavy, but you'll still turn final 3 or more miles out.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
ptica2000
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 1:48 am

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 4:11 pm

I did the same sort of landing. It was funny because it was already night and during the turn I was able to see the lights on the runway we were supposed to land at. It was a funny experience.

Nejc
 
aq737
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2000 10:47 am

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 4:12 pm

I swear, I was on TWA flight 1 from STL-HNL, and we did the channel approach...Heading towards the ewa side, then a bank to the right (it looks like your wing will hit the ocean/beach)!!

Aq737
 
AWA757
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RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 5:05 pm

There is an approach like this at Lihue (LIH) on Kauai to runway 3. There is a mountain range a few miles south of the threshold, so you come in from the ocean over Nawiliwili bay and bank hard right to line up with 3. This approach is rarely used by the 737s or 717s who pretty much approach straight in to runway 35 most of the time.
 
T prop
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:33 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 5:14 pm

Another unusual approach into HNL for a heavy is along the shoreline for 26R. I saw a Delta 764 land on 26R close to the numbers on thursday, 26L must have been closed. It looked like it came in a little fast, lots of tire smoke. For this one they come down the shoreline fronting Waikiki similar to a 26L approach but continue in closer to shore. They then make a quick left turn over Honolulu harbor to line up. I saw a C5 do it once and those guys bounced it!

I'll bet the sheriffs working the Lagoon drive security checkpoint were woken up by that 764!

T prop.
 
dripstick
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RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 9:19 pm

Here are some visuals of HNL for everyone...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Richard Silagi
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Philip Keever

What's another word for thesaurus?
 
dripstick
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RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 9:25 pm

And one more. Is that you onboard?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Weldy


What's another word for thesaurus?
 
neilalp
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RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Sun May 26, 2002 10:11 pm

I'd say try the Moloaki (MKK) arrival and departure on the old Dc-9's. WOW!!! You hit the runway on landing like never before and your on the breaks very hard. Then on takeoff your stomach is still on the ground. It was an flight I'd never forget.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
HAL
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Mon May 27, 2002 3:06 am

Aq737,
I suppose that the pilots of the TWA flight you were on were familiar with the channel approach, and when ATC told them to make a short approach, that is what they did. However the people I know in the HNL tower say they aren't allowed to give a heavy the channel approach anymore.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
chrisair
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RE: Hawaiian Pilots Treat 717 Like Fighter Plane?

Mon May 27, 2002 4:33 am

I certainly hope no steam was coming out of the vents...It's condensation  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Richard, I've experienced that type of landing on Alaska before, must be the guys that fly to Juneau and other places up north...The approach to Juneau is something...