TG992
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'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 8:22 am

Air NZ to make major announcement this afternoon

28.05.2002 11.07 am

Air New Zealand is expected to unveil its new-look domestic and short-haul international services later today.

The airline said it would hold a news conference at 4.30pm.

Air NZ has been mulling a major change in its modus operandi since the Government bailout late last year.

Its full board met on Friday and it is understood it considered the changes and signed off on them.

- NZPA
-
 
767er
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 9:02 am

Any ideas waht tha announcement will be about though i do have a rough idea
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Skystar
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 9:48 am

Well, NZ shares are up in AU.
 
airnewzealand
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 1:15 pm

due in 17 mins!! Cant wait! Tel us the news Rob! Would be great!

Cheers
Mike
 
TG992
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 1:17 pm

I'd get fired if I did that!
-
 
'Longreach'
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 1:35 pm

Is this to do with the low cost business?
 
airnewzealand
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 1:40 pm

LOL...ahaaha...
Yer and with your promotion, you wouldnt want to huh!! LOL

Have a great one buddy
Mike
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 1:42 pm

Short term aircraft leases perhaps? to counter the QF attack?
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
767er
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 1:44 pm

Tue 28 May 2002
Air New Zealand will make major changes to its domestic and international airline operations over the next 18 months to improve services to business and leisure travellers under a new strategy announced by the company today.

The company's new strategy has been shaped by clearly expressed consumer demands for lower fares, more choice of flights, simplified booking and purchase processes, and improved loyalty benefits for frequent flyers.

The strategy will be implemented progressively over the next 18 months across three key areas of Air New Zealand's airline operations.

* New Air NZ domestic & Freedom Air services and Frequent Flyer Rewards programme changes will be implemented on 27 October 2002. Broad details of the new products and services being introduced in this phase are announced today.

* Air NZ International short-haul services (Trans-Tasman, Pacific Islands) are being expanded in schedules taking effect in October and November this year. New international short-haul product and service specifications are being developed for introduction next year. Details of the new international short-haul product and services specifications will be announced nearer the implementation date

* Air NZ International long-haul services (Asia, Japan, the Americas, and Europe) - are also being expanded in November schedules. New international long-haul product and service specifications are scheduled to be announced next year.

Priority is being given to the development of the vital Air New Zealand domestic main trunk operations which provide the core of the company's business, and where further competitive challenges are most likely to develop in the near future.

Introducing Air New Zealand "Express"

Air New Zealand will introduce a new Express class service on the main trunk domestic routes operated by its Boeing B737-300 fleet. The start-up date for Air New Zealand Express is 27 October this year.

Air NZ Express will offer passengers substantial reductions in fares and more seats per flight.

Air NZ Express aircraft will be fitted with 136 seats, compared to 122 at present. The additional 14 seats per aircraft will be achieved by the removal of the separate business class cabins currently fitted on Air New Zealand B737-300s.

During 2003, new, ergonomically-designed seats offering increased knee space will be installed progressively on Air NZ Express aircraft.

A new in-flight snack service - including offerings of tea, coffee and water - will be provided on all Air NZ Express flights. There will be no in-flight meal or alcoholic beverage offering.

Details of the new fare structure will be announced in July, closer to first on-sale date for Express services.

Freedom Air Expansion

Freedom Air's trans-Tasman operations will be expanded to provide new, low-fare services to Queensland from Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch, in addition to its existing range of trans-Tasman services. .

The new Freedom Air services will go on sale in July for flights commencing on 27 October this year. An additional Boeing B737-300 will be acquired to provide the capacity required to introduce these services, increasing the Freedom Air fleet from 4 aircraft to 5.

Freedom Air operations on core domestic main trunk centres (Auckland - Christchurch, Auckland - Wellington) will be maintained.

International Short-haul Service expansions

Air New Zealand will expand its operating capacity on international short-haul(Tasman and Pacific Island) routes in November. The key changes are:

* Auckland to Sydney : the number of flights per week will increase from 20 to 28

* Auckland to Fiji : the number of flights per week will increase from 7 to 8.

* Christchurch to Sydney: the number of seats available per day will increase 38% with the up-gauging of one of the two daily B737-300 services to a B767 operation.

The development of new product and service specifications for Air New Zealand International short-haul services is well advanced, and significant changes will be introduced next year. Details of these changes will be announced closer to the implementation date.

International Long-haul Service expansions

Air New Zealand is also expanding its operations on international long-haul routes to the United States and Asia this year. The key changes are:

* Auckland - Los Angeles : the number of flights per week will increase from 10 to 14 (a 40% increase in capacity) from November.

* Auckland-Honolulu : the number of flights per week will increase from 2 to 3.

* Auckland - Tokyo, Japan: capacity increased 23% last month with the introduction of daily services to and from Narita.

* Auckland - Kansai, Japan : the number of flights per week will increase from 6 to 7 in November.

* Auckland-Hong Kong: the number of flights per week will increase from 5 to 7 in November.

* Sydney-Los Angeles : the number of flights per week will increase from 3 to 5 in November.

New product and service changes for Air New Zealand International long-haul services are currently being evaluated, and will be announced next year.

Air Points reward programme enhancements

The strongly-supported Air New Zealand Air Points reward programme will be significantly enhanced by changes which will be introduced in October, at the same time as the first major airline service changes.

The Air Points programme will be modified to provide more points earning opportunities for frequent domestic flyers using the new Express service.

Air Points redemption opportunities will be enhanced with currently scheduled international service expansions. The Air Points programme will continue to offer other unique benefits to its 800,000 New Zealand members, such as Companion Fares.

Domestic Lounges

Koru Club lounge layouts in main trunk centres with Air NZ Express services will be improved to offer more group seating arrangements suited to working business travellers.

Access to Koru Club lounges will be offered on a fee-paying basis to Koru Club members and their travelling guests. Air Points Gold and Gold Elite customers as well as First and Business Class international passengers will also be admitted.

Simpler booking, purchase and seat selection via Internet

The Air NZ Website will be upgraded to provide Air NZ Express customers with simplified booking, purchase, and seat selection processes. The first improvements in "look and feel" will take effect in July, with more substantial changes effective in October.

Financial Impacts

The Group's current financial performance is ahead of the targets for earnings and gearing contained in the 5 year plan produced to support the recapitalisation of Air New Zealand at the beginning of this year.

The company's new domestic and international operating strategies provide the platform for achieving the continuing financial improvements forecast in the 5 year plan.

The revenue impacts of fare reductions in the implementation of the first phase of the strategy are expected to be offset by operating cost reductions, some market stimulation, and some market share gain.

Future year targets remain very challenging. No further earnings guidance can be offered at this stage. The company remains committed to the achievement of the targets contained in the plan.





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Skystar
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Tada...all Is Revealed :)

Tue May 28, 2002 1:45 pm

http://www.airnz.co.nz/investor/pressreleases/index.jsp?articleId=21965

Low frill AirNZ Express to operate on domestic routes - no meals, just tea, coffee & water.

Cheers,

Justin
 
airnewzealand
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 1:53 pm

DAMN!!
I wish i knew what was happening woith the Inflight up grades!!
Cheers
Mike
 
airnewzealand
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 1:57 pm

DAMN!!
I wish i knew what was happening woith the Inflight up grades!!
Cheers
Mike
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 2:15 pm

Guys,

NZ Express? Sounds delightful. No domestic booze.

Are they really saying QF stole our biz pax anyway?

I note they are refusing to divulge the changes to Trans Tas / Pacific services, but one can only guess they have given themselves 6 months of the domestic express service to guage customers opinions. Then implementing a similar sort of thing on Trans Tas / Pacific flights.

I wonder what Geoffy is thinking about now.

mb
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 2:16 pm

Sounds good so now we have to wait a little longer to see what the inflight improvments are on long haul.
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 2:26 pm

Don't worry, AirNewZealand, we will find out soon enough. Shame to see the meals go on domestics - that was always a big selling point over Qantas. Still, to be honest, it is only a 1h45 minute flight at most (AKL-ZQN), so its not that bad. I wonder if you will be able to buy a slightly more substantial meal on-board - that to me seems to be a sensible idea, and I have heard of some airlines in Europe doing this.

As for the international stuff, my (slightly educated) guess for the long hauls (and AKL-SYD and AKL-MEL routes) would be dumping the current First class - not that its used throughout much of the network anyway - and Business Class and having a 'Super-Business Class', with lie flat seats a la VS, SQ, CX. As for South Pacific and Trans-Tasman, 767 may or may not go all economy, with perhaps only 6-12 seats (as opposed to the current 18 on a 767) of this 'Super-Business Class', and most likely the 737s will go all Y (J on them isn't that great anyway - the seat is wide, but you only get a few more inches of legroom - I wouldn't mind it, but I wouldn't pay extra for it)

All will be revealed in due course, I am sure (provided they don't get swallowed up by the dark side of the force from over the Tasman)

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
aerokiwi
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 3:46 pm

Decididly unusual decision to downgrade.

It seems sensible on the surface, but look a little deeper. NZ still has relatively high operating costs, meaning the move to no-frills will hardly bring substantial benefits. The airline is trying to paper over fundamental problems like that high cost base.

Also, airlines always go on about how they make their money from business pax. So what's up with dumping it? Corporate flyers tend to be more discerning travellers and will change if it suits them. If I had the money, I know I would.

Quite frankly, as Qantas expands in NZ (both domestically and internationally), Air NZ is going to lose more of those valuable upper-end pax.

Very dangerous move on an airline that has only its service reputation to fall back on now. And if the same is done to trans-Tasman flights, exactly how do they expect to get Aussie corporates onboard?

These changes are sidestepping the real problems faced by the airline and I suspect will be reversed in time.
 
TG992
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 3:56 pm

I respectfully disagree, Aerokiwi.

Worldwide, we're seeing a trend for business to pay a lot more attention to travel costs. Several large corporate firms are now (I believe) utilising DJ in Australia (can mx_5boy or another Aussie resident confirm?), annd in Europe, no frills airlines such as Easyjet are seeing increased numbers of business travellers.

If these moves allow NZ to offer lower prices, I think corporate clients will be all for it. Pacific Class domestically is *very* comfortable anyway, and I doubt many travellers will be too concerned about getting a snack rather than a full 2 course hot meal on a 45 minute WLG-CHC sector!
-
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 6:15 pm

TG992,

Why on earth do you think they are moving to 'no frills' type service? No booze or proper food? Obviously they have been looking at *yields* and discovered that the pointy end is being taken away by QF left right and centre.

What is more, rather than try and compete with QF in this area they are changeing product direction and offering something different in the hope that they can stave off QF whilst still manageing to attract pax, albeit at a lower price structure and compensate in other areas.

My bet is the changes to TT service are going to be in a similar vein six months after the initial domestic change. This gives them a chance to *test* out the new structure.

It will be interesting to see if it works, however, given the Australian example where QF have cut back service and everyone screamed, one should imagine the same will happen at NZ.

Besides which no doubt the boys at QF are going to tackle this in an effective manner and ramp up capacity, services and amenity to make flying QF NZ a joy rather than tedious. QF have the money to do it.

As for DJ attracting a significant part of the coporate market, well that just isn't so. When AN MKII went down, sure some disgruntled managers went to DJ but DJ have no service whatsoever unless you pay for it, plus they don't offer lounges or proper terminal facilities. It has been said that after a particular monsoonal downpour at the SYD express terminal whereby a manager and his staff had all their work and themselves drenched vowed to never fly DJ again. (Because of no airbridges.)

What DJ has done has opened up corporate travel to many who wouldn't have flown before, and of course they have attracted most of their pax through low fares or leisure travellers.

QF on the other hand is reeling in the dollars from corporate travel as they were literally handed AN's slice in one big hit! So QF have doubled their Biz pax and full fare economy yields, not to mention all the Star oncarriage they are receiving.

Even though the QF service has been described as crud in recent times, things are going back to normal with the dirty Perry Boxes being replaced by trays at meal times, so I am led to believe.

Does anyone think that NZ's move is very much like BMI?

More points for customers is an old trick and can be easily dilluted by changes, I fail to see whether people will fall for that.

mb
 
TG992
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 6:33 pm

While obviously unable to release specific information, the number of high yield pax that have migrated to QF's domestic NZ ops is negligable. They are still forecasting to lose (I believe) 45 mil on their domestic NZ ops this year, which must mean their planes are packed full of 'gutter' yield pax.

The majority of coporate clients travel in economy anyway so I think eliminating J is a good idea - the difference between full Y and J class fares domestically is relatively small (eg AKL-CHC one way full Y class is NZD516, J class fare is NZD591)
-
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 6:51 pm

TG992,

Of course QF are going to lose money as they are deliberately stealing pax from NZ. But in the end they will win out in that sector of the environment. The fares you are showing are those that are pervading at the moment and are not indicative of what they once were.

QF were the ones to lower the biz fare and they are not filling their planes with so called "gutter" yield anymore than NZ is. Not only can I confirm this but it's easy to check out availability for both airlines and prices. QF are consistently offering lower fares accross the board and are having full flights.

When I have asked you previously when you have purported to NZ loads being *great* you have never answered me on the yields though.

Precisely! Because there have not been those yields there.

On the international front the crazy *market* rates to LAX were mad.

On the proprietary front, NZ's customers from now on will be of the gutter variety that you purport. Certainly the Aussie contingent that fly NZ are of that credence. Many travel agents and those particularly who got burned by the AN debacle still refuse to sell NZ services.

Check out the loads and yields on the TG services SYD/AKL.

Interesting.

mb
 
TG992
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 7:17 pm

The fares that I quoted haven't changed for over a year.

However, I am quite happy to look at your claim of QF flights being full.

let's look at todays loads as an example.

0635 QF AKL-CHC 065
0650 QF AKL-WLG 111 (NZ flight at same time chocka as well)
0820 QF AKL-CHC CANCELLED
1030 QF AKL-WLG 073
1135 QF AKL-CHC 046 (NZ flight at same time was full, so was SJ)
1210 QF AKL-WLG CANCELLED
1340 QF AKL-WLG 038 (compareable NZ flight had double this amount)
1345 QF AKL-CHC 039
1525 QF AKL-WLG 053 (compareable NZ flight had over double this amount)

And so on..


-
 
Oz777
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 7:54 pm

Sorry, but a regrind of the same old s..t.

NZ domestic is in fact going back to the old NAC days.

What really annoys me is the "uplifting' of the FF programme for NZ passengers. As a Gold Elite Star member, I have let AirNZ know in very clear terms already that their economy product and pricing on B737's trans-tasman is well below TG's offerings SYD-AKL (and about $150 cheaper with the same points credit to the AirNZ rewards account!!!)

Nothing new in the 'access' to the Koru lounges (same as before).

Air NZ will still try to maintain the F product for the LAX and LHR markets, but J does for the rest of their network. Again the product 'enhancements' they are talking about are a trot-out of what they planned to do pre Sept 11.

Analysing the "capacity increases" for the Northern Summer schedule, there is again not much difference to what they have had before. Imagine 'celebrating' SYD-LAX at 5 per week - it used to be 7!!!

Sorry, a very very disappointing announcement. Shows what happens when Accountants determine the market strategy. All it does is make it a little harder for DJ to start dom. NZ operations. One curious question. The "frequency increase" to SYD from AKL. Does this now mean the loss of the B767's and upgrade to B737's. Sound very suspicious to me.

And for all of you whothink I am an avid ANZ supporter - think again. I might have to apply for a QF FF card now.

MX-5. Agree totally with your assessment of the yield and market assessment you put forward.


Oz777
 
aerokiwi
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 8:42 pm

It is ironic that the onset of competition domestically in NZ 15 years ago has come full-circle and we're at some awakward half-way point between "the bad ol' days" and full service.

Perhaps, however, this is just a ploy to gain support (or at least, delay the jackles) of the financial markets. An increased share price was inevitable after this announcement. And an increase market valuation makes dealings with the bankers a whole bunch easier, e.g loans etc.

Essentially, they had to be seen to do something. And this is what they came up with. Mediocre at best methinks. Also notice the interesting use of words used by the chief operating officer on the late news tonight - biz pax represent only 2% of revenue domestically. All very well, but what are their contributions to yields and ultimately, profits?

One other thing, people keep saying they will offer a "snack". Does this imply an actual food item, other than tea and coffee? And what about juice? Why is it always, tea, coffee and water?
 
Skystar
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 9:41 pm

Well, juice costs more  Smile Maybe they'll introduce cordial, it's cheaper than juice.

Will miss NZ domestic service, it's about the only place in the world where you can get ANesque full service on domestic hops. WLG-CHC full meal services a thing of the past  Sad

Just remember who was responsible for the great NZ domestic service. Ansett New Zealand - how ironic.

Cheers,

Justin

BTW: Are TG SYD-AKL services really that great in the yields department? Aren't they full of cheap ticket pax?
 
Crosscheck
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 10:19 pm

To TG992,

As an Air New Zealand employee, with access to Qantas Load Factors and flight information, I can only guess you must work at Auckland Airport. I'm sure displaying Qantas Corporate Information in such detail as you have done, is a breach of the Air New Zealand Ground Handling agreement between these two companies. Qantas, and I am sure Air New Zealand are both fiercely protective of this type of information.

Maybe you should check with your supervisor next time you wish to publish sensitive airline information.

Thanks

PS As a ground agent, many airlines have access to certain information about other airlines activities, however I sure there are certain agreements in place to protect each others business interests, this type of behaviour wouldn't be one of them.
 
v jet
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Tue May 28, 2002 10:38 pm

TG992
Bitch font on Big grin
Probably cancelled because it was due to be operated by the cruddy ex Ansett 733 thats alway u/s
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 12:15 am

NZ Express? Sounds delightful. No domestic booze.

I think NZ Express is equivalent to Air Canada creating Air Canada Tango. Lo fare, no-frill, no meals, everything DIY (Except F/A will help you with those drinks and waters)

When Air Canada creates Tango, many people have doubts whether Tango will be successful. By at the end, it becomes the cashcow for Air Canada.

Like Tango, of course there will be doubts whether will NZ Express really work, as (please correct me if I'm wrong) this is a new concept to Kiwis, IMO.

One comparison for Tango and NZ Express:
Tango: most flights are over 2 hours, up to 5hours (YVR-YYZ)
NZ Express: the longest flight will not exceed 2 hours

If people having no problem flying Tango for 5 hours without any main meals, I don't think Kiwis will complain about flying up to 2 hours and having no main meals.

If the Kiwis are complaining, just send them to Canada and have a taste of what's like to fly Tango.

As for Qantas, my wild guess is that QF may never make any profits for NZ market, as many travellers in these days are looking for cheaper price, which QF is willing to do that. But with this move, QF will have problems to make a profit, because they can't just simply provide low-cost, high-class service.
 
TG992
Topic Author
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 4:23 am

Crosscheck,

Sorry, don't work at AKL - actually, I just went there on my off day and counted pax boarding, as any member of the public can do  Big grin

Skystar, TG's SYD-AKL flights are lower yielding - NZ sees no point in trying to match fares of a carrier that has one daily flight on the route, and who can set prices at pretty much any level they want, as their main concern is AKL-BKK thru pax.
-
 
rmm
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 6:02 am

Looks like a few more job losses coming out of this one,

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/05/28/1022569769334.html

Rmm
 
jetkid
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 7:07 am

I'll miss the in-flight meals on NZ, as they were streets ahead of QF in J or Y, even when you compare them to the trans-tasman offerings QF provide. That said I hope someone takes up the opportunity to provide some decent food at a reasonable price at the domestic terminals, so we can get something before hand.

If I'm like most people you get on the 7am flight to Wellington, your lucky if you get 5 mins to yourself all day and then home again on the 6.30pm and the meals were great, because I never got the chance to eat much the rest of the day. People go on about the fact that the flights are so short, but by 7pm I am bloody hungry and it was great to get something on the plane, even if it only tied you over till you got home!

From what I can see NZ are going to offer what QF have been offering domestic travellers here since they started services in their own right, a drink, a small snack and less room.

For most people the determining fact is price, and if QF continue to operate their business in New Zealand at a deliberate loss then Air NZ are going to have their work cut out for them. I will continue to fly NZ when I can, simply because I have never had the problems that I seem to get with QF every time I travel with them.

Jetkid
 
B-HXB
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 8:32 am

STUPID! What on earth are Air NZ thinking??!!

Their decision to cut business class makes no sense. Out of the 8 seats on a 737-300 AKL/WLG/AKL there are often three or four pax (if not more). Thus their decision to slash Business is stupid. They are losing their higher revenue pax and essentially making them pay lower prices or force them to Qantas.

As for putting more Y class seats in, well, what's Freedom for? With this new Air NZ Express, I can now see absolutely no difference between Air New Zealand and Freedom on domestic routes.

As for their product upgrade, by the time they get something together, other major airlines will probably have come up with something new. Air New Zealand has had five years to come up with a product that comes close with the major carriers, especially in First and Business Class - the fact that they haven't says volumes.

And they are also ignoring connecting pax - those passengers who travel business class on all sectors of their journey have to fly Qantas for their NZ leg, and thus will probably travel Qantas on their international leg as well.
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 8:42 am

Their decision to cut business class makes no sense. Out of the 8 seats on a 737-300 AKL/WLG/AKL there are often three or four pax (if not more). Thus their decision to slash Business is stupid. They are losing their higher revenue pax and essentially making them pay lower prices or force them to Qantas.

I understand your position. You're just like those people who were doubting will this really works when Air Canada establishing Tango.

As for putting more Y class seats in, well, what's Freedom for? With this new Air NZ Express, I can now see absolutely no difference between Air New Zealand and Freedom on domestic routes.

Actually there is a difference. Freedom's flight on AKL-Wellington+Christchurch is not that much. Also, NZ Express haven't unveiled which route it's going to fly.

Possible scenario is that increasing current Freedom Air's domestic flight and NZ Express flying routes that Freedom Air don't flies to.
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 8:51 am

B-HXB

Out of the 8 seats on a 737-300 AKL/WLG/AKL there are often three or four pax. Precisely. Yet it requires an extra flight attendant - for three or four passengers - and takes out seats that could otherwise be occupied, without the need for an extra f/a.

From what I have seen/hear, NZ express will offer more legroom in economy than Freedom. Their flights will be significantly more frequent than freedom. They will also be a bit more expensive than Freedom. Agreed, it is a fine line, but a line nonetheless.

As for their product upgrade, by the time they get something together, other major airlines will probably have come up with something new. Air New Zealand has had five years to come up with a product that comes close with the major carriers, especially in First and Business Class - the fact that they haven't says volumes.

So you are saying airlines should implement product upgrades within a day of thinking them up, so that no one else gets a better one? Perhaps you had better think that through a bit. As for the First and Business class, might I suggest that, until the least 18 or so months, the product they offered was perfectly competitive with other airlines they competed with, and that within those 18 months, the airline has been much too busy with other issues to worry about upgrading an already excellent product. The crew service is probably among the best 5 in the world. Take a look around the Internet for appraisals, there are quite a few, and for the most part they are all highly praising.

No offence, but please don't post such nonsense without thinking it through, and checking the facts.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 9:04 am

TG992,

Did you really just up and go from QF dom to NZ dom counting pax at the same time?

That's an intersting twist to the airline obcessed!

 Big grin

mb
 
Marara
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 9:48 am

Jiml1126,

Tango and NZ express are completely different situations

AC doesnt have cashed up competition, AC arent loosing the J class passengers to another airline (All the money goes back to AC in the end) and from what i gather Tango is a leisure airline not flying trunk routes (i may be wrong here).

I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 11:17 am

At least Air NZ isn't going to give up with out a fight!!! I love them and I wish Air NZ all the best.

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
fqtv
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 9:01 am

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 12:01 pm

VirginFlyer, you're absolutely right.

3 - 4 Business Class passengers per flight are not worth the extra space, extra flight attendent, extra catering, menus etc. that are necessary, and AirNZ will be saving quite a bit by removing biz class from its domestic fleet (obviously, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it).

What does this mean for AirNZ international? If AirNZ is removing Business Class from its 737-300s, what happens on the international routes that the 737s serve (eg. CHC/WLG - Oz, AKL - Pacific etc.). Unless they switch these flights to 767s, they'll have to cut Business from them too.

AirNZ international J class may lack BA flat beds or UA's electric seat controls, but it still is (8 years after its roll-out) an exceptional product, constantly voted among the top airlines in the Pacific (and still wins in-flight service awards from the UK), and I would hate to see any downgrade on the long-haul routes (I fly NZ around 3x a year UK-Pacific-Oz).

Cheers, Fqtv

P.S. AirNewZealand, I was at the Raffels about a week after you left, great trip reports! Since I won't be flying NZ domestic in the next few months, and they're about to cut J class, I've got a spare Gold Elite domestic upgrade certificate if you want it. It is transferable (so I can give it to you without getting in trouble  Big grin) and confirmable at time of booking, send me a mail at zac_iln@yahoo.com
 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:39 am

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 12:48 pm

When they mention additional Freedom flights to Queensland from AKL, WLG and CHC do they mean OOL only or also BNE? Would they consider an AKL-CNS service for NZ holidaymakers. How about Hamilton Island (is it international-flight capable?)??
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 12:53 pm

Tango and NZ express are completely different situations
Actually they are.

AC doesnt have cashed up competition, AC arent loosing the J class passengers to another airline (All the money goes back to AC in the end) and from what i gather Tango is a leisure airline not flying trunk routes (i may be wrong here).

Eventhough AC doesnt have cashed up competition, it is still having difficulties to have all of their domestic flights full. As TG992 mentioned, the current industry trend is in favour of the low-cost, no-frill service like those in Europe, and Australia's Virgin Blue.

And the reason why NZ Express and Tango are the same situation is that Tango actually operates Trunk routes, it is not a leisure airline.

Tango currently flies major AC trunk route like Vancouver-Toronto, Calgary-Toronto, Montreal-Toronto...etc.
 
TG992
Topic Author
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 1:58 pm

Some interesting excerpts from the 'Larry Williams Show', a high-rating NZ radio programme.

NORRIS: No there will just be a New Zealand, Air New Zealand
Express will be the offering and it's interesting, Larry, when
we look at the uptake or the use of business class the bulk of
our business passengers don't use business class and in fact
it makes up a very small proportion of revenue and certainly
it's a high cost facility to offer when it's not particularly
valued and not particularly used.

WILLIAMS: Are you worried about losing the business traveller
though who is going to go to Qantas now because that full
service one imagines is still going to be there.

MILLER: That's a good question and our research, we've done a
lot of research with qualitative and quantitative and we've
asked the key decision makers in a lot of our corporates and
said this is what's on offer and they're fairly enthusiastic
about what we're doing and I go back to the fact that from a
business traveller point of view in terms of business class
travel it's a very small proportion of our overall traffic and
we don't think there's a lot of risk there.

WILLIAMS: So as far as the Transtasman, Pacific Island
services, US, Asia services you're enhancing the product there
or there is a new strategy. Can you elaborate on that.

NORRIS: The long haul is, our product needs to be upgraded. We
need to face up to the new products that are being provided by
our competitors on the long haul sectors and certainly we need
to improve the seating internationally and also provide
inflight entertainment. So we are going through a design of
what the aircraft will look like, feel like, what the seats
will be like and the inflight entertainment for that long haul
service.
-
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 2:33 pm

Did I read this right. Air New Zealend Express will be competing with Freedom Air on domestic NZ routes??

 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 4:03 pm

Will miss that evening cocktail service (even in economy). That was always something special I thought, especially for such short flights.

When you've just made it throught the sleet and snow after the airbridge has broken down at Invercargill and its been a long day, it's always satisfying that, even on an ATR72, they hand out the free booze.

I fly Auckland - Invercargill about 3 times a year, so it will be a sadly missed pleasure.
 
duff
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 10:29 am

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Wed May 29, 2002 4:26 pm

It was noted in the Herald today that a lot of New Zealand business's are not booking business class seats for their employees. It was also stated that a large number of pax that fly business are merely upgrades due to overbooking on economy (a problem that QF doesn't seem to have).

I will back TG992 up on the loads for QF. When I worked for them the loads were woeful at times while Air NZ always looked healthy. I would be interested to see what Air NZ makes on domestic cargo. When I was around they had a monopoly (100%) over that.
 
Guest

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Sat Jun 01, 2002 1:16 pm

Air New Zealend Express will be competing with Freedom Air on domestic NZ routes??

Actually, I don't think so.

ANZ is not going to be too stupid to let Freedom and NZ Express compete against each other.
 
Kiwi dave
Posts: 893
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2000 7:50 pm

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Sat Jun 01, 2002 4:03 pm

Will we see a change in livery or will it remain the same?
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Sat Jun 01, 2002 4:46 pm

The livery's only just been introduced Kiwi dave.
In fact there are still one or two (Link) aircraft still running 'round in the old colours so I very much doubt that it'll change.
Maybe just add the word "Express" to the domestic fleet or something.  Smile
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4997
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Sat Jun 01, 2002 5:01 pm

I think half of the link fleet is still in the old colours although they are mainly Bandit's and Metro's.
 
Kiwi dave
Posts: 893
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2000 7:50 pm

RE: 'New Look' Air NZ To Be Revealed Today

Sat Jun 01, 2002 6:36 pm

I know that the livery has only been out for a couple of years I was refering to would they add the word express to the livery.

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