United Airline
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Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 7:46 pm

There are rumours floating around saying that Singapore Airlines may ditch the A 340-500 in favour of Boeing's new B 747-400QLR.

This makes sense since SIA has a large number of B 747-400s. And there are all three engine manufacturers for you the choose from.

 
andrew
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QL

Tue May 28, 2002 8:08 pm

Just out of curiosity, will the 744XQLR have the chevron nacelles/cowlings that were recently trialed on Boeing's 777 testbed?


Andrew
 
Udo
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 8:22 pm

I agree, these few planned A345s in SIAs B747and B777 dominated fleet don't seem to make much sense. But maybe they don't really need the B744QLR's capacity. It is said that SIA plans to operate the A345 with under 200 seats.

But beside the A345-replacement option I think the B744QLR seems to be an appropriate aircraft to replace parts of the current B744 fleet. Many of them are 13 years now and we know well that SIA is one of the airlines which usually do not operate aircraft older than 15 years...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Airbus_A340
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 8:22 pm

Do you mean the things that look like giant cookie cutters?
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 9:16 pm

I dont understand the logic of this board at all!! A few weeks ago sumone was talking about SAA changing their massive airbus order for boeing! Airlines order aircraft for a reason, they dont simply pick the name of aircraft out of a hat and order them. SIA picked the A345 because they dont think they would be able to fill 744 capacity on direct SIN-USA flights.

Maybe next week Northwest will drop its a330 order for 777's and the week after that maybe KLM will decide to take the A340, instead of the 777!!?? Companies dont spend time and effort creating a fleet plan, and then tear it up and pay cancellation fees for the fun of it....sorry if i sound harsh, i just dont see why these topics keep appearing...
 
Guest

RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 9:24 pm

Companies dont spend time and effort creating a fleet plan, and then tear it up and pay cancellation fees for the fun of it....sorry if i sound harsh, i just dont see why these topics keep appearing...


...it has happened more than once that even big airlines present "fleet plans", order planes...and later cancel the orders to buy from the other manufacturer.

With SIA, there's been this whole saga with the A340s being bought by Boeing ; and SAA had made a huge NG737 order, and canceled it for Airbusses 32-s after receiving the first Boeings...!
 
United Airline
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 9:39 pm

Umm...... SIA may eventually order the B 747-400QLR....

Who will be the launch customers? UAL? Air France? SIA? Cathay Pacific? Or even JAL?
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 9:44 pm

I dont doubt that SIA will eventually order the 744QLR, it will replace some of their older 744. Launch customer of the 744QLR is Qantas r they not? United has quite a few 744 in the desert at the moment so i doubt they will be ordering them...
 
AirCanadaMan
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 9:54 pm

Qantas launced the 744ER and Air France launched the 744ERF.

So far, no orders for the 744QLR.
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 10:12 pm


This topic was addressed in the very reputable Flight International magazine a few weeks ago. According to FI, Boeing's 747XQLR will be able to fly SIN-LAX non-stop with about 245 pax vs. the Airbuse A340-500's load of less than 200 pax. Apparently, SIA believes that they would be able to use this extra capacity. The other interesting thing is that the price of the 747 has been lowered. I read recently that the 777-300ER is now the highest priced product in Boeing's commercial product line.
 
Guest

RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 10:54 pm

also the big P word................................................POITICS
like with sin the U.S could say " we see that you and Malaysia are big enemies and they look stronger than you. We would love to help you out but we don't think our tanks could fit in a A340, Sorry."
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 11:01 pm

POITICS???? What the heck is that?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

If you mean "politics" that would make some sense but I really don't think that Singapore has to play the political game as much as Israel (for example). Singapore is a sought after customer because where SIA goes, competitors follow. This was proven by the A380 order rush after SIA placed its order. It was also well known that QANTAS placed its orders almost as a direct result of the competition factor with SIA.
 
danialanwar
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 11:21 pm

POLITICS
It is all about politics. It is NOT that SAA, Saudia, SIA or whoever just order airplanes. If you order from Boeing, the US will just "by accident" re-negotiate the debts of your country / company, freeze up some assets, lower trade terms ect ect ect. It looks good for everybody - the receving country gets more money, Boeing makes money, the US govt created jobs (only the tax payer pays). For countries where that doesn't work, Boeing may (hiddenly) pick up the cancellation fees of another aircraft manufacturer. Airbus does the same, it just hasn't got as much political power.
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
 
JAL
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 11:32 pm

I hope that this rumour is true.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
Mr.BA
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 11:33 pm

July, yes, come July and we'll know.

I believe even if they keep the A345s SQ might just order some B744QXLR to replace some of their ageing B744s. But I don't believe SQ would be the launch customer, they never liked to.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Tue May 28, 2002 11:39 pm


Danialanwar,

I think that you are mistaken about Airbus not having political power behind it. The EU does everything it can to prop up Airbus because of the massive amounts of cash that the member countries have invested in the company. The EU also pressures countries to buy European products because of support that is given to those countries. Of course, the USA does the same thing. I just think that some people like to pretend that the USA is the only country that follows these practices. As usual, the USA is painted as the big, bad bully and the Europeans are painted as the innocents. Such is the destiny of the world's economic leader.

(By the way, Canada and Brasil also indulge in the above mentioned practices)
 
N79969
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Wed May 29, 2002 12:06 am

Reggaebird is correct. The EU has plenty of political power and they are creditors to many countries around the world. I think the US and EU are about even in most contests.

In addition, the French allow bribes to be written off as business expenses. In the US, that violates the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and can result in prison time for company officials.
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Wed May 29, 2002 12:25 am

The 773ER has been the most expensive Boeing aircraft for over a year now, I remember reading the Prices in airliner world. As demand drops for airliners, manufacturers try to sell them off cheap. This is especially true for Boeing, as the market price of second hand 747's is very cheap right now.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Wed May 29, 2002 12:29 am

May I assure you all that politics has little if nothing to do with SIA when it comes to plane orders. They frankly don't give a damn where it comes from as long as they get the best. Hooray for kiasu  Big thumbs up

Anyway, as I reported on April 1 2002, there is a chance that SIA would order the 744XQLR. (not the 744QLR).

According to some sources, it is unlikely SIA will order the A340-500 which is confusing.

As someone pointed out above, SIA would be able to fly approximately 51 - 61 more passengers with the 744XQLR compared to the A340-500. In addition, quoted figures (of course can change for the worse) by Boeing indicate that it costs 15% less per seat to have the former rather than the latter.

However, as I mentioned, people are still saying that SIA sources say that they will keep the A345 order.

I want the 744XQLR  Big thumbs up hehe
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
danialanwar
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:20 am

Reggaebird ... I know all of them do it ... hence I've stated that Airbus has "not AS MUCH POLITICAL POWER" behind it as Boeing does
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:34 am

I dare say that there might be more political power behind Airbuse because of the massive economic impact that the company has amassed in the EU countries. In other words, where Airbus' fortunes fall, so do significant portions of European aviation revenue. I also feel that Europe's inferiority complex vis a vis US comparisons makes the governments there more likely to prop up Airbus.
 
Greg
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:34 am

Actually SIA is one of the more astute aircraft buyers. But it's ridiculous to think they are not subject to political persuations.

Do you honestly think they're would be an open-skies agreement with the US if they bought $6 Billion in Airbus aircraft? If you do...you are very naive.

They stated themselves that the increased landing rights into Paris was a result of their A340 order. Funny..they did not lose those rights when the contract went sour. But, after all, they did BUY those aircraft..they just didn't operate them....

So, it appears, they very much care for the political aspects of the purchase...
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:22 am

Greg:

I'm afraid you're the one who is naive about the open skies agreement. The US is pushing for open skies agreement all over the world. They don't select countries they want to have open skies agreement. It is usually the other party that doesn't want to sign an open skies agreement with the US. The US/Singapore open skies agreement has absolutely nothing to do with what SQ has ordered.
 
EGGD
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:29 am

In addition, quoted figures (of course can change for the worse) by Boeing indicate that it costs 15% less per seat to have the former rather than the latter.


LOL!!!  Big thumbs up
 
Greg
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:48 am

Sorry, but that's not the way I read it.
All transcripts on Open Skies agreement and bilaterals are kept as a matter of public record. You can access them in the Library of Congress. The actual route fillings are with the Department of Transportation.

The dialogue for the open skies agreement was negoitiated at roughly the same time at the SQ deal for Boeing. I find it hard to believe that the two are independent. Next thing I'll hear is how the Bermuda II agreement is not political either!

Further more, SQ has stated that the original A340 buy was very much in the favor Airbus due to the relaxation of French access into Paris. Those complaints are on file as well.

Dynkcrisolo....please do not personalize your comments as attacks. It does not make you clever or more correct.
 
United777
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:30 am

Could the Boeing 747 fly non-stop from Singapore to Los Angeles like the A340-500 can?
 
ILUV767
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QL

Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:31 am

United Airline wrote:
Who will be the launch customers? UAL? Air France? SIA? Cathay Pacific? Or even JAL?

United will not be buying any more 747s.

I L U V 7 6 7
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:36 am

Greg: The timings may be coincidental but SIA frankly couldn't give a damn. A380 was better than 747X. 777 is better than A340. 777 is better than A310. A310 was better than 757. A340 was better than MD-11.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
donder10
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:06 am

777 doesnt compare to the 310 in the slightest.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:15 am

Donder10: Maybe that example was a little irregular considering the A332 or 764 would have been better, but the other ones are on sound foundations.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Greg
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:29 am

Of course they do, they've said as much.
The 340 purchase was initially tied to increasing service to Paris which at the time was twice weekly. Singapore Airlines itself is the source.

So hardly a coincidence.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:39 am

So the replacing of the 777s is supposed to benefit SIA in it's quest for another daily service to CDG.

IC!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
NWA742
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:47 am

BA DC-10,

I dont understand the logic of this board at all!! A few weeks ago sumone was talking about SAA changing their massive airbus order for boeing! Airlines order aircraft for a reason, they dont simply pick the name of aircraft out of a hat and order them. SIA picked the A345 because they dont think they would be able to fill 744 capacity on direct SIN-USA flights.

Maybe next week Northwest will drop its a330 order for 777's and the week after that maybe KLM will decide to take the A340, instead of the 777!!?? Companies dont spend time and effort creating a fleet plan, and then tear it up and pay cancellation fees for the fun of it....sorry if i sound harsh, i just dont see why these topics keep appearing...


This happens more often than you think, it's perfectly logical to talk about it.

EGGD,

In addition, quoted figures (of course can change for the worse) by Boeing indicate that it costs 15% less per seat to have the former rather than the latter.

LOL!!!


How is that funny? This is not one of those little false advertising schemes that you will find in BOTH Boeing's and Airbus' websites. The new 747s would indeed be more economical for SIA than the A345.

ILUV767,

United Airline wrote:
Who will be the launch customers? UAL? Air France? SIA? Cathay Pacific? Or even JAL?

United will not be buying any more 747s.


Only the future can tell, and none of us can predict it. Right now, I agree, there's no chance of United buying any new airliners for a long time, including airliners besides the 747. But things change over time, especially with airlines.

Greg,

A310 was better than 757

First off, has the A310 ever even been a direct competitor to the 757, let alone a competitor at all? Another thing, here are the sales figures:

Total 757 Sales: 1050
Total A310 Sales: 260

How do you come to this?



NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Greg
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:00 am

NWA....check your source. I didn't even mention the 310/757.

Singapore_Air: No, that would probably be buying the 340-500's!
Do not try to pass yourself off as the expert on everything concerning SQ--you're no more an insider than any of us.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:14 am

Greg: I think you make me something I'm not. I'm flattered.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
donder10
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:17 am

He has a valid point.
 
Mr.BA
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:09 pm

Every aircraft is good. It depends which fits in your route structure better.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:20 pm

Greg:

Don't be ridiculous. At the time SQ signed the open skies agreement with the US, there were at least four other countries signed the agreement. I believe they were New Zealand, Brunei, Taiwan, and South Korea. None of them placed any major order at that time. So, if your theory is true, care to explain why the US selected the four other countries? IIRC, the US also wanted to sign an open skies agreement with Hong Kong around the same time, but Hong Kong refused to. At that time, Cathay placed their first A340 order. So, using your theory, why would the US asked Hong Kong for an open skies agreement?
 
NWA742
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RE: Singapore Airlines Might Order The B 747-400QLR?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:44 pm

Sorry about that Greg, that part of my post was meant to be to Singapore Air, not you.
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs

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