Dalmd88
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Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 7:21 am

This afternoon Jet Blue announced plans to add LGB service to OAK, SLC, and LAS. On Sept 6 they will add 9 flights to OAK. On Oct 10 LAS gets 6, SLC get 1 and JFK gets one more. This will raise the number of LGB departures to 23.

link:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020528/282562_1.html

 
FATFlyer
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 7:30 am

Lots of OAK flights. I expect the number will be reduced to OAK and the slots used for other cities as thinks develop.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Guest

RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 7:50 am

Sweet! JetBlue, welcome to Vegas!  Smile Can't wait to fly on them soon!

Take Care,
Richard
 
Guest

RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 8:22 am

Great. Hopefully the prices between the Bay Area and Los Angeles will get very low.
 
travelin man
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 8:28 am

Isn't this putting JetBlue in direct competition with WN? I know WN serves OAK and LAS very heavily from LAX, and SLC also is served.

Of course, if I had a choice, I'd go with B6 (assigned seating, TV, etc.), but I'm wondering if WN will lower its fares even further to compete.

I'm also surprised (and a little saddened) to see FLL left off the list of new destinations from LGB.
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 8:34 am

There are still 4 remaining departures for January 2003. FLL will get its chance.

In addition, I think we will see SEA and DEN with those 4 remaining departures.

OAK and LAS surprised me. OAK was a complete shock with those 9 flights a day.

I expected SLC to have 2 or even 3 flights.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
YoungDon
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 8:38 am

Are they ever going to fly to IAH from JFK, or is that just a dream?
 
scottysair
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 9:25 am

Way to go, Jetblue!!!  Big thumbs up I think wonderful news as for more expand of the flight to OAK, LAS, and SLC as for this fall 2002. And need keep it up as for good work with the Jetblue. This is will be soon because into LGB hub, right? What is exactly will to do more destination cities. So please let me know do something. Thanks!!
 
FrequentFlier
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 11:02 am

Very cool!

Does this mean that JFK-LAS is right around the corner?

From what I've heard, National won't be able to compete if this ever happens.
 
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spinkid
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 11:35 am

wow, what a surprise, very exciting news. I sure hope JFK-LAS comes soon. That would really destroy National and America West on that route.
 
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OA412
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 12:11 pm

I too expected SLC to get at least 2 flights. We'll have to wait and see what happens when they announce the remainder of the flights from LGB. But then, as already speculated, I assume that many of the slots will go to DEN and SEA, as well as FLL (hmm, kind of strange that FLL was not announced among this round of flights). I would also think that B6 could do well on an LGB-PHX routing.

Anyway, I'm not complaining. I am definitely going to try out B6 on the SLC-LGB leg ASAP.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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OA412
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 12:14 pm

Damn it, I forgot to add one thing to my previous post. I do not think that this will worry WN too, too much. Certainly, B6 will be a formindable competitor on all of the above routes but WN is heavily entrenched on all of them. And, WN flies into/out of LAX which, depending on where you live in LA, may be much more convenient than driving down to Long Beach.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Guest

RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 12:19 pm

Hmm Frequentflier and Spinkid, I don't think National will get killed if B6 ever does start a JFK-LAS route. They seem to be competing with America West quite nicely, but see, I believe it will be a good couple of years before B6 ever decides to do a route such as JFK-LAS, by that time, I just hope National will stay in business!

Take Care,
Richard
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 12:57 pm

It's good to see the LGB-SLC flight; however, I think it sucks it's only the Late evening, early morning deal. I guess it has something to do with utilizing your aircraft to the maximum  Smile Maybe parking the A320 overnight in SLC will be cheaper than LGB? Anyway, I can't complain. I think that the Northern Orange County residents will really love this. LGB is a quick hop from Newport Beach, and cheaper than SNA to SLC.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 1:19 pm

Holy hannah....*nine* flights a day to OAK, that's basically a shuttle. Even JFK-FLL didn't start at nine a day. FATflyer's probably right...that number may fall as other destinations come on line--but only temporarily. Traffic between the LA/ Orange County basin and the Bay area is so dense, and LA-area freeways so congested, JetBlue could wind up actually filling those nine flights.

Southwest runs 22 dailies on LAX-OAK, and eight dailies on SNA-OAK. I'd think they'd have to lose at least some traffic for JetBlue to fill those planes. Those who live closer to LGB than LAX or SNA may not be easily won back to those airports, because of the traffic congestion. Especially SNA, which on *day one* will have fewer WN frequencies than LGB will have B6 frequencies.

I predict detente; WN will lop a flight or two at most on LAX-OAK and SNA-OAK, and B6 will have at least 7 or 8 on LGB-OAK.
Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Guest

RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 2:19 pm

I think JB is going to make alot of money on the west coast runs. I think more passengers will be taken away from AA and UA than SW though.

Did LGB ask that the remaining four slots be delayed till January because those are the four being used temporarily by AA?
 
RyDawg82
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 3:09 pm

Word on the street from my buds at F9 in DEN....B6 has interest in adding 4 adtl flights out of DEN. More flights to JFK and new service to LGB....Would be great if this is true...Ry
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
Guest

RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 3:20 pm

When will Jetblue come to Portland!!!
 
UAL-Fan
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 3:25 pm

Not to mention all the other expenses associated with LAX and SNA. Last I flew from LGB parking was something like $6.00/day, plenty of space all within easy walking distance to the terminal. That alone would make me drive the few extra miles.

LAX is just a huge headache these days. If given a choice I would avoid that airport at all cost.

Man I wish JB would come to San Diego!
 
Pilot1113
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 3:53 pm

How many planes does JetBlue have now? How many will they have at year's end?

- Neil Harrison
 
cch362
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 3:55 pm

Am I the only skeptic!? Going into these west coast markets is going kill JetBlue.

Southwest will easily beat JetBlue's fares: Oakland ($54); Las Vegas ($44); and Salt Lake ($74). Southwest comes up with $39 fares all the time and still makes money.

American and United have either switched to commuters on these routes, or they can benefit from their extensive route network and frequent flyer plans. Their routes can survive JetBlue's new entries.

The biggest concern about JetBlue is the fact that it is not paying for its planes and maintenance now, but it will have to start doing that at some time. It is growing way too fast, and sooner or later it will be completely overwhelmed by costs. Sadly, it has chosen to grow in markets where the fares will be really really low.

I think Denver, Colorado Springs, Portland, and Seattle would be better cities to expand.
 
jmacias34
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 5:39 pm

I think/hope that such high numbers to OAK and LAS will be dropped as soon as they cement PDX, SEA, and DEN. Possibly they are using such close destinations so they don't need to use more aircraft from the longer hauls/east coast ops??? Maybe the reason they aren't operating LGB to DEN, PDX, & SEA is because jetBlue already has operations at OAK and SLC, I can't imagine why DEN wasn't added and I don't know why LAS was added.
 
RyDawg82
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 11:06 pm

DEN has been added for some time, although the sellout their 1 flight a day, I don't have the exact numbers. Would be nice for them to make DEN a small gateway to their Western Operations. I think it would be a very wise move for them based on their current load factor....Ry
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
srbmod
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Wed May 29, 2002 11:55 pm

This could set up some interesting events out west. JetBlue could start a fare war with Southwest, and Southwest has a pretty good record in those, case in point, the Shuttle by United war. Even with JetBlue's advantages, it does lack an important thing out West, name recognition. Yes, they have been flying out to the Left Coast for a time now, but they are still a small airline. LGB was brought into the fold to help them grow, but Southwest is a force out there in the low-fare market. JetBlue's plans could also signal the demise of National Airlines, who have been in financial troubles for the last 18 months or so. America West would also be affected by JetBlue as well. I do wish them luck out west, but only time will tell if their product can put a dent into Southwest's armor.
 
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spinkid
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 12:03 am

I know they wanted to use up their slots in LGB. And the easiest way to do that before you have all the planes to fly the exact routes you want is add cities that are close by that will require fewer aircraft to operate the most flights per day and fill up those slots. It is a jumping in headfirst, they have never entered a market with so many flights per day. They still offer a great product though, and should be able to compete very well for themselves.

I did notice, that although they did not add JFK-LAS, you can buy a fare connecing through LGB for the same price as their other west coast flights.
 
planeguy
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 1:34 am

Greetings,

Pilot113, I believe JetBlue has 25 A320-232's as of this writing. They are scheduled to receive 11 additional aircraft by years end.

LGBGUY
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 2:25 am

For those who are curious, here are the links to the west coast media stories.

Long Beach
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/articles/0502/29/new01.asp
http://www.lbreport.com/news/may02/jbkell.htm

Los Angeles
http://www.latimes.com/business/printedition/la-000037744may29.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dpe%2Dbusiness

Bay Area - where the newspaper talked about both UAL and LUV ops in the bay area.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/05/29/BU238063.DTL
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 6:21 am

Rydawg82,

Not surprising that Frontier knows JetBlue's plans.

JetBlue currently uses a Frontier gate, and Frontier does all the maintenance and check-in for them.

From what I've heard, Frontier and JetBlue are very "close".

Looking forward to those 4 flights.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 8:06 am

I think we will most definately see LGB-SEA also.

Does anyone have any idea what JetBlue's plans are for ONT?

I think they should just dump it and focus on LGB. That plane that flies JFK-ONT could be used to fly LGB-FLL.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Guest

RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 8:27 am

Hmm, BA, do you think we could see an Alliance between the two low fare airlines.....
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 8:31 am

National_757,

I know it's been talked about recently. Not an alliance, but a code-share agreement.

I think it would work verywell. JetBlue passengers could fly from JFK to DEN, and connect onto Frontier's western network which is quite good.

We'll see what happens.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
AeroGlobeAir7
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 8:59 am

I agree very much. Southwest should have no trouble providing competition for JetBlue. As good of an airline JetBlue is, I doubt they will ever undermine Southwest's dominance of the low fare market, not only out west, but in the entire country. They may make their mark in the East, but Southwest will likely remain the dominant low fare force throughout the country for a very long time.
I hope Jetblue comes to Kansas City sometime. I would really enjoy seeing their 320s out here. But that'll likely be awhile. They're obviously focusing on cities with a very large population base, or tourism ties. As great as Kansas City may be, I don't think we can compete with the likes of Orlando, New Orleans, etc. that have already established themselves as major vacation destinations. Secondly, Southwest is dominant here, Vanguard, Southwest, and Midwest Express would likely slaughter JetBlue if they even thought about coming here. Kind of a bummer since I don't get to make it to Florida or California too often. :-( I'm dying to see one of their 320s!
 
flywithken
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 11:31 am

Will Alaskas plans to occupy the slots for the SEA-LBG service be cancelled or are there still enough space for them?

KEN
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 12:05 pm

Flywithken,

Unfortunately Alaska will have to cancel it's SEA-LGB flights when JetBlue wants them. So this route may not last long, and may not even start if JetBlue wants the slot early enough.

The slots that Alaska will be using belong to JetBlue. When JetBlue wants to use them, Alaska will have to leave. I don't think this is really fair, but life is tough.

I really think the slot limitation in LGB needs to be increased. At least they should bring it up to the proposed 41, this would be excelent and would hopefully end this war between JetBlue and AA.

It's amazing how much air traffic is booming in the Los Angeles area.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 1:14 pm

BA,

It's not a proposed 41, it is the current max of mainline jets. When JetBlue adds its flights in October LGB will be at 41 flights, including the new AA flights. The number also includes cargo carriers.

The city seems to be holding the line that they will fight to stay at 41 mainline and 25 regional slots. But the slot numbers were determined using noise data from the 80's era aircraft. So a court could require them to increase the number of slots up to the same total noise level. But the city probably will not do that voluntarily since the citizens are opposed to changing the number of flights, no matter how quiet today's aircraft are.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 1:16 pm

You're right FATFlyer, sorry my bad.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Thu May 30, 2002 2:26 pm

I'm kind of surprised about the new flights to LAS considering that just a month ago David Neeleman indicated that there would probably be no new cities this year with the exception of SJU. Makes me wonder if we'll see other new jetBlue cities this year.

Also, their schedules to and from OAK seem a little odd to me. In each direction, there are two flights 50 minutes apart, then a three hour wait, then two more flights 50 minutes apart, then another three hour wait and so on throughout the day. It seems like they would want to spread their departures more evenly throughout the day, such as a departure every hour and a half to two hours.

LoneStarMike

 
Guest

RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Fri May 31, 2002 12:27 am

Here is another kicker that the local city representatives don't want the public to know:

In fine print on the contract about the 41 slots, it says that the airport can have more than 41 daily slots as long as the noise restrictions are not broken X number of times(I dont remember the exact number)

Also the "red team" verbaly changed the slot contract with jetBlue from having to use the slots within 60 days to 2 years, but never changed them in the city ordinance contract. AA has a copy of that which states an airline has to use the slots within 60 days, so I am willing to bet that AA and AS will get their slots from the federal court and the judge may even give out more slots!
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Fri May 31, 2002 1:53 am

There is also a section in the LGB ordinance that says that flights are allocated on a first come first servce basis BUT if multiple airlines seek slots then there will be a lottery. So I take that to mean that any additional slots will probably be allocated using a lottery since both AA and AS are requesting slots and of course JB may want more also.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Fri May 31, 2002 6:31 am

What do you think about LGB-FLL? Is it likely to be 1 of the 4 remaining slots?

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
scottysair
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Fri May 31, 2002 6:51 am

BA,

I am not possibly sure that about LGB want give up more slots on JB flight. And this is sure thing to do something want new routes nonstop from LGB-FLL flight into the near of the future. This is very popular at South Florida as for cruise ship, or vacations or business and anything to do as for trip. This is exactly way to do new nonstop as for transcontinental flight from California to Florida. You're got to fight against of LGB airport about of the slots. Well, hope this is it for now. Goodnight!
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Fri May 31, 2002 7:16 am

It gets a little hard to forecast since none of JBs cities have shown up in the DOT numbers for LGB in the past. The closest would be that BWI has been popular in the past, which would reflect the IAD service.

Although FLL and the Miami area may have potential, JB's need to maximize its slot use at LGB and JFK with its fleet size may keep LGB serving short west coast hops for the near future. I tend to look for west coast and mountain state cities out of LGB but will be pleasantly surprised if they add FLL.

I do have to wonder about the city of Long Beach requesting JB not to use the 4 slots being given to AA. Is there a hint of some possible negotiating going on behind the scenes to stay out of court?
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Guest

RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Fri May 31, 2002 7:34 am

I doubt that JB will be running the 9 OAK flights and 6 LAS flights after Feb 2003. They probably are gonna run the slots just hold them and then next year revise the schedule to open other long haul cities. I doubt that there is enough business to run 9 OAK and 6 LAS flights from LGB for months on end.
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Fri May 31, 2002 7:45 am

I honestly wonder how JetBlue will add these 4 flights from DEN which will include additional JFK and new LGB service.

If it's 4 flights, my guess is it will be 1 new JFK flight, and 3 LGB-DEN flights.

But with 4 remaining slots in LGB, do you think JetBlue would use 3 of them just for DEN?

I didn't hear it will be 3 flights from LGB. What I heard is 4 additional flights from Denver INCLUDING new LGB service and additional JFK service.

So could it maybe be 2 LGB-DEN and 2 JFK-DEN? Still wondering how JetBlue will do it.

I agree with LGB Photos, I think the 9 OAK flights are just a temporary move so JetBlue can keep holding on to the 27 slots. Overtime as they get more aircraft, I think we will see those OAK service become less and JetBlue open up other new routes from LGB.

I'm still very curious about the 4 flights from DEN though.....JetBlue has been serving DEN for almost a year now with only 1 flight a day, and now they want to add 4 flights? Interesting........

Anyone who works for JetBlue have any extra info?

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
roberson
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Fri May 31, 2002 3:52 pm

The 9 dailies to OAK surprise me. I doubt they will be long term moneymakers, especially with WN's presence at LAX and the other area airports. But it'll be interesting to see how the market responds. I agree with some of the comments already made - that the main purpose behind this move is to hold the slots until it's practical to establish new routes as well as increase frequencies on others.
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Sat Jun 01, 2002 6:19 am

What do you think will be JetBlue's next focus city?

I heard it will be somewhere in the Southwest, POSSIBLY ABQ.

We can't expect to see much growth in LGB because of the slot restrictions.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MAH4546
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Sat Jun 01, 2002 6:27 am

jetBlue's next focus city will most likely be FLL. They've already stated it themselves that they have big plans for Ft. Lauderdale.
a.
 
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OA412
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:24 am

BA,

I think you hit the nail on the head about where the slots for 2-3 new LGB-DEN (assuming your info is correct and since F9 works with B6 in DEN they are closer to knowing than almost anyone else there). The 9 daily flights to OAK and 6 daily flights to LAS are just a red herring, so to speak, to appease those who are bitching about B6 not using its slots at LGB. I think that, as others have said, B6 will slowly begin to curtail service on those routes early next year in favor of increasing frequency elsewhere (I am sure SLC will get a second flight) and opening new routes, i.e. LGB-DEN and LGB-SEA which will most likely start off with 3 flights daily each. Anyway, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
BA
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:27 am

OA412,

I'm glad we are agreeing on something.  Smile

LGB-DEN and LGB-SEA COULD possibly be added in January. JetBlue still has 4 slots in LGB which it said will be used in January 2003. They're keeping quiet for now.

All we can do is speculate what those 4 slots will be used for.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Jet Blue Announces Fall Plans

Tue Jun 04, 2002 3:31 am

Southwest will easily beat JetBlue's fares: Oakland ($54); Las Vegas ($44); and Salt Lake ($74). Southwest comes up with $39 fares all the time and still makes money.

Southwest may come up with $39.00 fares all the time, BUT, in order to qualify for them you have to make your reservations 2 weeks in advance AND (this is the important part) you have to stay overnight. Not neccessarily a Saturday night, but overnight nonetheless.

On jetBlue's website they state that all their fares are one-way and a Saturday night stay is never required. However, if all their fares are one-way, it would stand to reason that NO overnight stay (Saturday or any other night for that matter) is required.

Let's suppose a business person finds out 2-3 weeks in advance that he/she will need to attend a one-day seminar in OAK, flying there and back on the same day. On jetBlue their round trip fare would be $108.00 plus PFC and security fees. If booked online the fare would only be $98.00 plus fees.

On Southwest, since there would be no overnight stay involved, the best one could do would be to buy two advance purchase one-way tickets at $71.00 each way or $142.00 round trip plus fees. In this instance, jetBlue's $98.00 fare represents a 31% savings over Southwest's $142.00 fare.

I'm sure that lots of folks make same-day round trips intra-California, but the question is, how many of them have more than 14 days advance notice? Businesses are starting to plan ahead to save money, so it there are a lot of people reserving 14 days in advance for same day trips, then Southwest might have to consider dropping their overnight stay requirements for same-day round trips booked in advance, at least in markets where they compete with jetBlue.

Personally, I have never understood the overnight stay requirement to begin with. The airline should only be concerned with two things. Are you booking in advance? Are you flying with us both ways? If so, it should be none of their business how long you stay.

LoneStarMike