v jet
Posts: 757
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QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 12:43 am

Reported in the Sydney Morning Herald that Qantas and the NZ government
are in secret talks, which obviously are now not a secret. The report says
the possibility is for QF to take up to half of NZ and take management control and
pull out of the NZ domestic market. It reports NZ share price has jumped quite a bit
and the recent announcement of changes to domestic services is not enough to
drive the share price higher. Even more interesting times ahead!
 
docpepz
Posts: 1706
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 8:20 pm

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 1:31 am

hahaahhhah.

QF were supposed to take half of NZ last August. No wait, SQ was supposed to. No, SQ was to take An and QF was to take NZ. Hey breaking news SIA is supposed to inject funds and management into AN mark II. No, breaking news! They're not doing it anymore! Hey, Breaking news! The Tesna deal is not going ahead anymore! Breaking news! United Airlines is talking with AN administrators about a possible take-over of AN.

Hey, secret reports leaked say that SQ wants to start a boutique airline in Australia. Oh more breaking news SQ has implied it tried to sabotage the Australian aviation industry.

I shall not believe any of these "secret reports" until something ACTUALLY happens!
 
dalecary
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RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 7:52 am

I think/have thought for a while that this is nearly inevitable. Will be truly a blow to STAR in the South Pacific, with no Aust/NZ domestic network and only UA offering flights to US west coast from MEL/SYD/AKL.
I had wondered why QF hadn't put the 10-12 737s into the NZ domestic network yet.
No-one seems to be outwardly denying this scenario and QF are openly in acquisition mode.
All the banter from AirNZ recently about their recovery is merely that. They are still an airline very much in survival mode, lacking the funding to expand and wholly reliant on the Kiwi Gov't for survival. They are crying out for a major non-Gov't investor. Is there anyone else around but QF, willing to pursue this role?
Would be a real worry for DJ, competing against a major alliance on both sides of the Tasman.
AirNZ would presumably get access to QF's preferred deals with Boeing/Airbus on 738s,A330s,744ERs and maybe A380s.
And before Professor Fels and his mates start whining about competition and monopolies, it must be remembered that a decade ago QF had a 20% stake in AirNZ and that all Trans-Tasman services were code-shared by the 2 carriers. In 1992 we had a AirNZ ticket and travelled MEL-CHC on a QF 763 and AKL-MEL on an AirNZ 742.

Dale.
 
Guest

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 8:04 am

Guys,

Here is a link to the news report from the Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/breaking/2002/05/29/FFX6CZE3S1D.html

It was only a matter of time.

mb
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 8:27 am

No news from me, I'm afraid..

In my personal opinion, a QF/NZ partnership would have a lot of positives for both airlines. However, WHAT would happen with the alliance situation?
Star is clearly the stronger and more desirable alliance, however, QF is bound to oneworld due to it's BA links. If NZ joined oneworld, it would leave Star with a HUGE problem in the Pacific.

Interesting times ahead, particularly when loads for NZ are just unbelievably good throughout the June-August period.


-
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 8:43 am

Isn't there something like a $35 million (US$) breakup fee if Air NZ leaves Star? That should be enough to convince them not to ditch the alliance. However, I do think that cooperation between QF and NZ would be a positive development. It's all a question of how to negotiate the romance when the lovers come from two warring families (sorry, bad Romeo & Juliet analogy there).

Aaron G.
 
jsmith
Posts: 336
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RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 9:39 am

Dalecary - are you saying that it was a good thing for passengers that a decade ago all TT services were codeshared between QF and NZ? How was this good for competition and consumer choice, if in fact, this was indeed the case?

I think it is frightening that we seem to be heading in this direction in the TT market, even though I agree that these developments appear inevitable.
 
Guest

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 10:09 am

Guys,

There seems to be conflicting reports about what exactly is going on however NZ have said they will be issueing a report to the NZ stock exchange today and haven't categorically denied the QF buyout rumour.

Cheers,

mb
 
jetkid
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 11:55 am

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 10:14 am

Is there any legal reason NZ couldn't stay in Star if QF took a stake in them? What would the rules be there I wonder, anyone know?

I wonder if QF and NZ could offer points on each others FF schemes for flights on each airline? I guess the other members of * and OW might have words to say on that matter!

When/if it happens I can't see QF getting more than 35% of NZ, and NZ would still be operating services in its own right of course.

QF could get the best of both worlds, feed from both Star and OW into its network.

I'd agree * is the better of the two, but logic would dictate NZ would have to leave that arrangement. Anyway what's US$35 million when you have no real competition (in NZ or on the Tasman for example) and can charge whatever you like.

Jetkid



 
dalecary
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 10:28 am

JSmith,

not necessarily saying it was a good thing, but the precedent has been set and it would be harder for Fels and the ACCC to reject a QF/NZ TT tie-up on anti-competitive grounds.
Anyway, it seems almost certain that DJ will operate TT and NZ domestic in the foreseeable future.
 
dalecary
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 10:36 am

Geoff Dixon has just been quoted as saying QF are having a range of discussions with AirNZ, including the acquisition of a minority stake.
So, we wait and see.

Dale.
 
Guest

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 10:37 am

Guys,

This must be sorry times for the Kiwi's. First we hear NZ are dropping service levels to keep themselves competitive, then we hear this news about QF taking control.

So when QF do take control, should we imagine that QF NZ will be removed? There will be no more domestic NZ competition, plus there will be no domestic serviced airline (as QF will no doubt expect NZ to stay in low cost mode) and nothing in any semblance of word as competition?

Sound just like this side of the Tasman doesn't it? I suppose we'll still have biz domestic. The evil Perry box will probably get exported as the *NEW* snack on NZ domestic flights.

It just keeps getting better doesn't it?

mb
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 11:27 am

The following announcement has been sent to the NZL and AUS stock exchanges in response to a story in this morning's Dominion newspaper. The story suggested that Qantas and the NZ government are in negotiations for Qantas to buy a large shareholding in Air New Zealand.

"Air New Zealand’s Chairman, Mr John Palmer has advised that the Company has been involved in discussions with Qantas covering a wide range of business issues including a Qantas shareholding in Air New Zealand. These discussions have been ongoing between the two airlines since May last year. The parties continue to discuss options but nothing has been agreed."
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AJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 12:28 pm

It seems to be forgotten that Qantas held 25% of Air New Zealand until 1997. Qantas and BIL had very different management techniques and Qantas sold their share for roughly A$160 million profit.
The trans-Tasman market is being flooded by both airlines, it would be more efficient to combine the two, allowing room for Virgin Blue. Third party airlines can operate the routes for other alliances, such as Thai International, China Airlines, United Airlines, Polynesian, Aerolineas Argentinas, Continental Airlines and some others have done in the past.
Hardly anti-competitive.
 
duff
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 10:29 am

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 1:54 pm

Mx5_boy.

"So when QF do take control"

Who said anything about QF taking more than a 50% stake??

I just hope that if they do have any influence on Air NZ they leave service alone. Heaven foprbid that Air NZ shall stoop to the level of service that QF supply at the moment.
 
Marara
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RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 2:21 pm

Duff,

Havent you heard about NZ express ??

Help from QF on the Intl side wouldnt hurt either.. Ptvs, 380s, Business Beds, F Class Beds.., though it could work both ways, maybe NZ could get QF to up their seatpich to 34"  Big grin
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
Guest

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 2:42 pm

Duff,

One of the reports I had been reading was that QF wanted management control. Not more than 50% ownership.

As for service, NZ are intending to remove whatever vestige they had with NZ Express. As I said, be prepared for the evil Perry Cardboard Boxes.

NZ might not like QF management, but if they want QF's money and feeds then they will have to capitulate on certain things. It can only be beneficial to both airlines and will also reduce the pressure that NZ are under from QF already.

mb
 
duff
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 10:29 am

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 3:14 pm

Just heard on the news that Qantas has denied rumours that they want management control in Air NZ.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 3:52 pm

This is real funny...
Because AirNZ has released their new intentions, cabin renoations, routing services etc... it comes out that QF want to buy them.
Is this a case of QF being scared?? I shall think so!! But then again, i am only a Teenager, not like all you Adults on here

Cheers
Mike
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 4:10 pm

AirNewZealand: Your age doesn't matter! Do not assume you know less than "adults" in this forum.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 4:29 pm

Mike,

I don't think QF are scared at all. If anything, NZ should be scared of QF's might. They've got plenty of resources at their disposal to play the game as they wish.

mb
 
jesseycy
Posts: 322
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RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 5:50 pm

As a Oneworld member, I'm hoping that QF does take a major stake in AirNZ, and forget about all the airpoints people, as long as I can use my QF/CX points! But that's not going to happen.... Even if QF takes up a major stake (which doesn't seem very likely), AirNZ will probably have management, and they will probably choose to stay in Star.

And I think that Qantas is trying to take over AirNZ, after its failure at "killing it"..... "Better capture him after a unsucessful kill"!
 
AJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 7:00 pm

Erm, Duff, a media release today indicated that Geoff Dixon confirmed that Qantas is in negotiation to aquire a minority stake in ANZ.
 
Guest

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 7:50 pm

AJ,

You know better than that, where there is smoke there is fire!! LOL

You seriously can't tell me that it would not be in the white rats interest in aquiring a substantial amount of NZ and management control to secure the region for QF?

Geoffy is no fool and a NZ in OneWorld would be a major blow for SQ.

Not that I particularly mind, I would rather see QF heading the region than the evil SQ which has so helped in destroying lives of others et al.

Do they give you as F/O those awful Perry boxes to snack on? (Only kidding...) Not on longhaul anyway!

mb
 
duff
Posts: 107
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RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 9:34 pm

Erm AJ. I saw the report. What's your point??

Watching the news again tonight the point was made that QF are not looking at management control of Air NZ and I can't see the commerce commission allowing majority ownership. A monopoly and won't be tolerated.

Furthermore. You QF lovers can't tell me that your airline aren't sweating a little over the loads and lack of revenue from their NZ operation. Everyone talks about how "QF will bring more aircraft into the NZ operation to compete". Well I haven't seen it happen yet, to a large degree anyway.

Another thing. Dixon's comment about destroying Air NZ (or words to that effect) might just come back and kick him in the butt if a majority stake is what he wants.

I am proud of Air NZ and it's employees (notice I left out management, although the new crowd seem fine  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ). The service is always far and away ahead of QF, both on the ground and in the air. Anyone who scoffs at that can check out the newsgroups or skytrax and see for themselves. And before you all come out and say that QF are installing PTV's and sleepers remember one thing. It's the personal touch that the pax remember when they get off the plane.
 
AJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 9:42 pm

I can't vouch for the NZ operation as it is not a mainline Qantas operation, but TT traffic is healthy. QFNZ is another walk away operation. My boss ain't stupid and I have no reason not to trust him.
 
duff
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 10:29 am

RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 9:53 pm

I never said you shouldn't trust him.
 
User avatar
BNE
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RE: QF To Possibly Take Up To Half Of NZ

Thu May 30, 2002 10:06 pm

Why would Qantas want a stake in Air New Zealand unless it could exercise some sort of control over it. Like getting Air New Zealand out of Star Alliance.

Maybe this would then give a new carrier enough market to start again. Only problem is that it would have to be more than 50% owned by Australians. Qantas and Air New Zealand would have to give up something. Could be good for Virgin Blue. All that extra Trans Tasman market for them.

The Air New Zealand share price is going up rather nicely. Brought some shares at 29.5 cents and now they are trading at 58cents. Also doing well with Qantas. Can't say the same about Telstra. Might go and buy some Patrick Shares.

Why fly non stop when you can connect