flynavy
Posts: 2177
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 7:46 am

I have always wondered how the following JAL picture could be a 747-100, since it has the extended upper deck. Same for the second picture--how is this KLM plane a 747-200, as it too has an upper deck?

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Photo © Andrew Hunt
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Photo © Lee Archer


I would think at first glance both of these planes would be 747-300's.

Could someone maybe make a production timeline showing the overlapping design elements or explain the options available in each model? It's confusing! Were these planes modified later in their service lives?

Also, what does the SUD prefix stand for?

Thanks in advance,
Chris
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 8:02 am

The JAL 747-100 with the Extended Upper Deck was a regular 747-100 that was modified to its current form so that it would better meet the capacity demands of Japan's busy routes. I believe that it is a one of a kind aicraft and is the only 747-100 series aircraft to be modified like that. KLM had their 747-200 series aircraft modified to Extended Upper Deck configuration and therefore they look like 747-300s.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Staffan
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 8:03 am

SUD = Stretched Upper Deck

Guess that answers your question..

Staffan  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
flynavy
Posts: 2177
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 8:06 am

Thanks guys for answering my questions. Were there any other modifications to these aircraft, specifically to compensate for the weight differences?
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 8:13 am

Currently I am away from all of my information. Within the next 24hrs I'll post more on both the JAL 747-100 SUD and the KLM 747-200 SUD.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
boeingnut
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 11:56 am

I cant remember the source (sorry), but I have read that extending the upper deck actually decreased drag and made the plane more aerodynamic. Im not sure if the decrease in drag (and thus fuel burn) offsets the increase in fuel burn due to higher weight from the SUD.

-Boeingnut
Excuse me, but what does God need with a starship?
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 12:19 pm

Chicago receives the KLM 747-206SUDs

PH-BUM
PH-BUN
PH-BUF i think....
 
rw774477
Posts: 1011
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 12:31 pm

PH-BUF was w/o in Tenerife

rw774477
 
vw
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KLM 747

Thu May 30, 2002 12:34 pm

I have been on PH-BUT and PH-BUU both 747-200 sud.
 
AJ
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 12:39 pm

In medical circles SUD stands for sudden unexplained death, so Mr. Boeing changed the abbreviation to EUD for extended upper deck. Good idea I think.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 2:34 pm

I think PH-BUU is a 300 along with BUV and BUW.
 
JvW
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 pm

There are actually two B741-SUD existing in JALs fleet...

JA8176


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Photo © Edward Lai



and JA8170


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Photo © Andrew Hunt



JvW
 
avi
Posts: 878
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 9:32 pm

If you don’t know the differences the JAL aircraft can be one of four options:

B747-100 EUD (as in the picture, this is the first time I hear of a EUD for the B741)
B747-200 EUD
B747-300
B747-400 D

The last one replaces the B747-200 SR (Short Range). It is a B747-400 without the winglet and with few other changes.

Long live the B747
 
avi
Posts: 878
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Thu May 30, 2002 9:37 pm

There are actually two B741-SUD existing in JALs fleet...

are or were?

Does anyone of them is still on the air?
Long live the B747
 
CX747
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Fri May 31, 2002 1:02 am

To the best of my knowledge, both JA8170 and JA8176 are still operating as of today.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
flynavy
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Fri May 31, 2002 1:44 am

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=JA8176

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Photo © Yosuke Kinoshita
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Photo © Ito Noriyuki


There appears to be a great deal of inconsistency in the designation of the aircraft shown above. I have noted two such inconsistencies.

According to the first picture's caption, I presume that ship JA8176 was delivered in August 1986! How could a -100 series be delivered in the late 1980's? I was under the impression that the construction of the -100 series ended much earlier, in the early to mid 1980's, not the later years of that decade.

The second picture's caption lists ship JA8176 as a Boeing 747-346(SR/SUD). Is ship JA 8176 a -100 or -300 series aircraft?

Where are people getting their information? Maybe it's just me, but I'm just really picky on accuracy I suppose!
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
Guest

RE: Boeing 747 Production

Fri May 31, 2002 2:08 am

The SUD conversion was ordered by 3 airlines: KLM (10x 747-206Bs converted), UTA (2x 747-2B3Bs converted) and JAL (2x 747-146Bs converted), making a total of 14 747-100/200S converted to SUD.
It's interesting to note the history of KLM's PH-BUH and BUI. Born as regular's 747-206Bs, they were converted to SUD, and then to Freighters SD...making them the only SUD and Freighter converted 747s.
Just for the record. The PH-BUL and the PH-BUK haven't been retired because KLM has retired the PH-BUP and the PH-BUR will be retired at the end of the summer schedule. Moreover, KLM seems to have some difficulties in selling both the BUK and the BUL as they are old and have a lot of flying hours and cycles.

PHBUH Converted to freighter
PHBUI Converted to freighter

PHBUM 747-206SUD/SCD
PHBUN 747-206SUD/SCD
PHBUO 747-206SUD
PHBUR 747-206SUD
PHBUT 747-206SUD/SCD
PHBUU 747-306SCD
PHBUV 747-306SCD
PHBUW 747-306SCD

2 freighters, 6 combi, 2 all pax.

Pretty interesting topic. After looking through Bill Harm's the only other carriers to have the SUD coversion done were KLM, who had all of their GE powered 742 converted, and Air France (presumably these were ex-UTA planes) who has 2 747-2B3-SUDs. The JAL 747SR-146B-SUDs are JA8170 and JA8176... both delivered in 1986, which has to make them the younger 747-100s out there. ANA also has two.

 Big thumbs up
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Fri May 31, 2002 3:28 am

All KLM ones will be gone by the end of 2005, maybe even earlier depending on the delivery schedule of the 777s.
That will likely be the end of the SUD/SCD, as it is indeed almost impossible to sell them because of their age and airframe life.
My guess is they'll be scrapped and the parts sold to 747-200 and -300 operators.
I wish I were flying
 
northstardc4m
Posts: 2724
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RE: Boeing 747 Production

Fri May 31, 2002 3:37 am

JAL planes
JP Airline fleets list:

JA8170, Boeing 747-146B (SR/SUD), cn23390/ln636, pra:N6009F, finished 0083, del 0386, 4 PW JT9D-7A, MTOW 272155kg, C25,Y538, SELCAL GJ-HK

JA8176, Boeing 747-146B (SR/SUD), cn23637/ln655, pra:N60668, finished 0086, del 0986, 4 PW JT9D-7A, MTOW 272155kg, C25 Y538, SELCAL GJ-HL

Now the reason these are such late -100s is because the -200 has a heavier structure that is not required for a short range A/C (in fact all 747SRs are -100s, not -200s) so they were built as -100s near the end of Classic production.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

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