wirraway
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Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 3:58 pm

Have just retyped Alan Kohler's "Australian Financial Review" from today's
edition, "Just two weeks before its business is sold. the board of
Sydney Airports Corporation met on Wednesday at the
epicentre of a fascinating behind-the-scenes poker game
being played out over a new third entrant into Australian
aviation - which may happen sooner than anyone thinks."

Kohler writes that SIA is the frontrunner to launch a new airline
in Australia. link is below, this is definatly a must read for Aussie
airline enthusiests.

Link: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=2f40bd77a62c7eb50293307ef1c20c0f&threadid=55208

Wirraway
 
Guest

RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 4:10 pm

HA!

All I can say is how sad it is...and I bet Spirit thought it would take to the air next.

Remember Spirit?

Show them you care: go to www.spiritairlines.com.au

SixStarAnsett Big grin

Sorry!
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 6:14 pm

What is the deal with Spirit - I remember hearing about them during 2000 and 2001, but not much more after the first half of last year. Are they serious?

As for the SIA airline, I wonder if it will be modelled on SilkAir (same fleet, same order of magnitude of route distance). SilkAir is one class mind you - would this be what SIA are wanting? This also raises the question of what SIA's intentions over Air New Zealand are - the have said they are not going to sell their 4% share - I wonder whether they will counter any Qantas offer, or whether they will look to compete in the NZ market as well with their new airline (which would be possible if it was opperating with an Australian AOC, I believe).

Another possibility - what if two of the possible airlines (SIA, Emirates, Dragonair) decide to put together a joint venture - SIA and Emirates seems the most likely of any, IMO.

These sure are interesting times

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 6:40 pm

Hmm.

Well as much as I would like to believe the rumour, it seems that it wil be a boring Cargo airline, not a passenger one.

Oh well.  Sad Shame!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
wirraway
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:25 pm

18 A320s is a lot bigger than the boutique airline
that I envisiged running the main business trunks,
this is no cargo airline Singapore_Air, what Kohler
is talking about is the real McCoy, it appears we
should know whats going down within 2 weeks if
I'm reading it right, it was only a few weeks ago
that Dixon said he would not be suprised if a 3rd
start-up appeared. This would also explain why
Virgin Blue have not announced their fleet upgrades,
untill they know what they are playing with.

Wirraway
 
rmm
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 8:27 pm

Wirraway,

There aren't 18 A320's left, 13 at the most. I suppose SQ could source them
from anywhere if need be. Do you think the closer relationship between SQ & EK over the last few weeks ties in with this?

I see DJ are desperate for a hanger as well. They were going to use the Tenix hanger in MEL but it appears you can't jack a 737NG high enough in it to do a gear swing. QF beat them to the AN shed in BNE. DJ are now looking at the MEL jet base.

Rmm
 
wirraway
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 8:54 pm

Hi Rmm

The closer relationship between SQ & EK over the past
few weeks could be a factor, this whole Kohler article points
to as he states "Ansett reborn under a new name and without
the luggage", when you think about it, the Star Alliance vacuum
has to be solved, as before my gut feeling is SIA, but a combination
as you stated can not be ruled out.

Wirraway
 
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:23 pm

Wirrway: I suppose you're right. Australian Financial Review is a good site even though it's stupid because you have to pay  Smile.

But (quote from Pprune):
(8) An AOC is not transferable.

So, does that mean the new airline needs a new AOC?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:33 pm

"Former Star Alliance member Ansett Airlines also left gaps in the network's coverage, a problem the group hopes to address.

"The demise of Ansett has created a vacuum," said Cheong of Singapore Airlines. "We are seeking a solution, but we don't want to do Qantas (Australia:QAN.AX - News) a favour by announcing publicly our plan."

Qantas, Australia's largest airline, is a founding member of Oneworld, and has expressed an interest in buying a stake in Star Alliance member Air New Zealand (NZSE:AIR.NZ - News).

Air New Zealand chief executive Ralph Norris said on Saturday any deal with Qantas -- a move which analysts say could force it out of Star Alliance -- was still "a long way off".

The remaining Australian player that Star Alliance could team up with would be low-cost airline Virgin Blue, which holds a 15 percent stake in the Australian market versus Qantas' 85 percent. "

Reuters / Yahoo


Dr. Cheong Choong Kong addresses the media in Shanghai.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sun Jun 02, 2002 3:52 pm

Guys,

How convenient of SQ/EK to come and pick up the pieces after the death of AN that either of them could have prevented.

Cheap assets, cheap employees and a SQ brand of whip and lash mentality to screw the hell out of the workers.

Sound like my kind of airline. NOT

Vile.

mb
 
wirraway
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sun Jun 02, 2002 4:17 pm

from ABC news net
"Anderson tips take-off of new airline"

The Federal Transport Minister is predicting a new airline will soon begin operating in Australia.

He has told Channel Ten, Qantas could soon face another competitor."

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/justin/nat/newsnat-2jun2002-37.htm

Wirraway
 
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sun Jun 02, 2002 4:44 pm

MX5: Yeah yeah. And anyway, how said it's EK and Singapore Airlines? Are you trying to tell us something?

Wirraway: The article is interesting however it is less optimisitic so to speak on a new airline coming soon. Is an AOC tranferrable?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
wirraway
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sun Jun 02, 2002 4:48 pm

Mx5
The current ex Ansett employees still out of work
would kill to get back into Australian Aviation through
a new airline startup, in your above statement, why
would EK be at fault for the ANZ/AN/SQ debacle.

Wirraway
 
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sun Jun 02, 2002 5:34 pm

Wirraway: isn't it obvious? He thinks EK is cooperating with "evil" SIA.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Sun Jun 02, 2002 5:54 pm

Uh oh... I sense another debate about the SQ/ANZ/AN spectacle developing. Please do not post it here but elsewhere. Like I said, give it a rest...
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
Guest

RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:33 am

Wirraway,

It's like getting the sack then coming back to work for less pay...

You should know me better by now, of course I want to see those out of work back in the industry. It doesn't mean that I have to be impressed about it.

I read some articles that NZ may have a role in this. Any wonder QF are pursuing NZ so vigorously to scuttle what *star* are attempting to do.

I'm certainly not against EK entering the marketplace, however if they do I am sure there will be another underhand organisation lurking behind the front line.

Doesn't it look kind of like it was around 12 months ago?

mb
 
rmm
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:21 am

VirginFlyer wrote -
Rmm - of course, if Air NZ were to do it, then it would pretty much kill Qantas's hopes of buying into that airline - the ACCC would never let a third airline start up, only to be swallowed by Qantas. Perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye - an NZ/SQ joint venture on an Aussie domestic airline would return the advantage with respect to a purchase of Air NZ to Singapore Airlines.

I think any involvement that SQ may have will demand there complete control,
whether that be on the Oz domestic market or in some form of partnership with AirNZ on this one

As for NZ, would there prime shareholder let them take such a risk? They maybe a negativity factor with NZ from the Oz public after Ansett.

As for the ACCC, they'll do what the government tells them.

Rmm
 
travel
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:15 pm

We are all very sad to see AN gone, but we need move on. I cant wait for a new premium airline to replace Ansett.

I have said time and time before that 3 premium airlines is too much for the Australian market, however 2 premium and 1 low cost is just right.

It looks like DJ are quiet happy with the way they are.
If it does go ahead I think "Air Australia" is a good name for this new airline..
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:52 pm

Rmm - However, if SQ were to buy such an amount of Air NZ that they held, say, 40% of it, and they go 49% to NZ's 51% in the joint venture, then there is an airline which is majority owned by a New Zealand company (the majority of shares would still be held by New Zealand government and institutions - and the odd mom and pop, not that they count for much anymore) with an NZ AOC, and thus has the right to operate in Australia. But SIA would have effective control over the Australian airline. It may not be a perfect scenario for SIA, but it would seem to clear somewhat more of the red tape than would happen if SIA tried to set up in their own right (I am assuming here that Australia and Singapore don't have an open skies treaty - I am right in this assumption, aren't I).

I definitely agree with you, though, that this thing is going to become rather political - lets just hope that political agendas don't take precedence of economic common sense.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:21 pm

OK, now then...
----
Singapore Airlines has said, "It's wrong" over speculation that it will buy Ansett's AOC. According to Australian Financial Review (see first post)...

However SIA says it does not intend to buy the AOC.

Commenting on SIA's future role in the Australian airline market, the SIA spokesman said the national carrier is "seeking a solution" and is "leaving all options open."
----

So what are the steps to buying a new AOC and what advantages do buying an old AOC bring? Also, why has no one answered my question where someone in Pprune said transferring an AOC isn't possible under AU law.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
rmm
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:56 pm

VirginFlyer,
Although your theory sounds good, SQ would have to get the NZ govt to lift the foreign ownership cap to 49%. We've seen how long it can take NZ politicians to make a decision.

Australia does not have an open skies agreement with Singapore in the same sense it does with New Zealand.

Singapore_Air,
I very much doubt at this stage that SQ would announce that they are buying the AOC. If they did, they've just given the game away.

Rmm
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:05 pm

Rmm - Don't forget the NZ Government was on the verge of doing that (supposedly) at the end of last August. Unfortunately events overtook them. Also, remember the Government's involvement is different now - it will be looking for a cornerstone shareholder to sell a chunk of Air NZ to. This will almost certainly have an affect on their position on the 25% foreign ownership cap. Finally, remember it is an election year in New Zealand this year, and Air New Zealand will be an issue, so expect decisions aimed at pleasing voters

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:15 pm

Rmm: Kudos for re-enthusing my enthusiasm.

Question: Is transferring an AOC possible under AU law? How will the new airline go about getting an new AOC?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
rmm
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:22 pm

I believe transferring an AOC is possible under the right conditions. Remember this is what was to happen with Tesna.

Rmm
 
wirraway
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:42 pm

Rmm is right, the AOC can be transferred, the advantage being
that SIA or whoever could start operations quickly instead of
getting one from scatch which would take from 9-12 months.

Wirraway
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:26 pm

Posted a couple of articles here, but they got deleted cos I didn't do it correctly (oops, my mistake! Sorry Embarrassment).

Anyway, here are the links to the articles, both regarding the third entrant into Australia's aviation market.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/06/02/1022982650735.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,4437039%255E643,00.html

Also, the Financial revue ran a story stating 'The Federal Government has urged Sydney Airports Corporation to ensure any terminal leases it negotiates with incumbent airlines leave enough flexibility for new airlines to enter Australia's aviation market'. For those of you with a subscription, here is the link

http://afr.com/premium/australia/2002/06/03/FFXSBKR9Y1D.html

Cheers

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:35 pm

Another article, this time from stuff.co.nz. An interesting read(despite that company's near obsession with Qantas buying Air NZ).

Air New Zealand is looking at starting limited domestic flights on Australia's busy east coast routes to fill the void left by Ansett, according to Australian media reports.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,1223730a13,FF.html

I must say that things really are getting interesting here in Australia - hopefully people who lost jobs in the Ansett collapse will be able to find employment in the airline industry again. I wonder how connected this is to the Singapore Airlines project...?

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Australia's New 3rd Airline Imminent!

Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:40 pm

"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh