airplanetire
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New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:13 am

The Skyteam Alliance currently has Delta, Air France, CSA, Alitalia, Aeromexico, and Korean Air. Delta (and probably others too) works very closely with several airlines. Some of those are RAM, SAA, and EL AL. Are there any airlines that may be joining Skyteam soon?
 
deltairlines
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:49 am

I would not be surprised to see SAA join. They have agreements with Air France and the big deal with Delta. The only other possibility for SAA I see is the mighty Star (as they have agreements with LH and Varig, amongst others). Aeroflot will be joining by the end of next year. As for other partners, SkyTeam needs a partner in South America and Southeast Asia. As for other airlines, El Al is an outside possibility, as is RAM; but these airlines would not bring a ton to the table, as compared to SAA or Aeroflot (in my opinion).

Jeff
 
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lindy field
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:09 am

Aside from the carriers mentioned by DeltAirlines, I'd consider the slight possibility that Skyteam, as well as OneWorld or Star Alliance, may be interested in bringing in other US carriers into their alliances. Delta is a little weak in the western US. Maybe they should make an effort to bring America West or Alaska into Skyteam--and reap some of the benefits of a merger without actually merging.

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Other Skyteam possibilities could include China Southern, Thai, Phillipines, and TAM.
 
alvaro
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:12 am

I also think they need a South-American parter. I would love to see Aerolineas Argentinas or even Aviance joining SkyTeam.
En Mexicana cumplimos 85 años de hacerte sentir el placer de volar sin limites
 
alvaro
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:13 am

Sorry, I meant Avianca.
En Mexicana cumplimos 85 años de hacerte sentir el placer de volar sin limites
 
airplanetire
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:15 am

I thought Thai was in Star. Delta has a hub in SLC with a lot of flights in the western US. I don't know if they need an airline partner there and besides, a lowfare might not be good in Skyteam, or any other alliance for that matter. I'm not expert, but when airlines are in an alliance, they codeshare a lot of flights and if one airline is cheaper than all the others, the prices for the full fare airline might have to be dropped to low fare levels. That's good for us, but not for the full fare airline. It could be a similar situation for the lowfare airline. They could no longer advertise most of their flights as being very cheap because they wouldn't all be cheap. Some would be on the fullfare airlines and thus more expensive. With that said, is Alaska Airlines low fare or full fare? If they are full fare, then they could be good for Skyteam. Like I said, I'm no expert on what all I just said, but it just seems like that would be the case.
 
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lindy field
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:21 am

Airplanetire,

Thai is in Star, but there are frequent rumors that Thai is not entirely happy in Star since Singapore, one of its major rivals, also joined. Air France has made some attempts to entice Thai to leave.

I understand that Alaska is a full fare airline. Certainly most Alaskans will tell you that their fares in Alaska are not low!
 
airplanetire
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:41 am

Thai would be great for Skyteam, so I hope they do decide to leave Star. It probably wouldn't be a big problem for Star either because they have SQ in the same region, so it's not like lots of destinations would be lost for Star. Alaska would be a good addition. As strange as this sounds, I think that an airline like Air Pacific would be good for Skyteam as well. They would provide more direct service to Australia (the other option would be to go through Asia and then to Australia; that's a long trip). Qantas and Air New Zealand, the two major carriers in that region, are both in an alliance; One World for Qantas, Star for New Zealand.
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:42 am

Now Sky team is formed by only North Hemisphere carriers (Aeromexico, Air France, Alitalia, CSA, Delta and Korean Air), so I think that the best option is add new carriers specially from the South. Maybe South African Airways could be a good option, Delta and Air France has an agreement with SAA. Another possibility could be Emirates, or Royal Air Maroc.

I would like to see another South American carriers, Aerolineas Argentinas Avianca, Grupo TACA, COPA or Aero Continente to join to the alliance, but different problems (specially finances) difficult the entrance into Sky Team.

RJ_Delta.
 
panamair
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:00 am

It's all easier said than done...Skyteam, especially AF, has been quite aggressive in trying to get strategically-compatible partners but has often been foiled by the much bigger Star...e.g., AF and DL made tremendous efforts to court, but lost out to Star, BMI (or British Midland back in those days) and Austrian (back when it wanted to leave the now-defunct Qualiflyer group), both of which would have been great partners for SkyTeam- one for Heathrow access and the other for Eastern European traffic (so instead they had to settle for Czech). SAA would be a fantastic addition but everyone and their mother wants SAA to join their alliance as it is the only viable African carrier - watch Star beat SkyTeam again on this one - remember that SAA has pretty big ties with LH too (more comprehensive than with AF).

As for Asia, one of the problems they have is that DL is weak in the Western U.S.A. (I know SLC is big but that is hardly a good feeder point for transpacific traffic - and remember, most transpacific traffic flows to/through SFO and LAX). With a gorilla like UA at those two points, who wants to partner with DL (which itself has to depend on AA Eagle for LAX feed!)

Therefore, for the most part, AF and DL have had to settle for 2nd-rate carriers to join (wonder why no one had been knocking down the doors of KE, OK, and AZ) and if the rumors are true, SU and CI (before the recent accident)
 
scottysair
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:05 am

I am sure will do something about Thai, El Al, RAM and SAA or Emirates will have to join as for skyteam alliance. Do you think anything will have a question with the codeshare as for Delta Air Lines. This is my best favorites airline as for myself. And I am do know think El Al or Emirates will have to join into the skyteam alliance anytime soon. This is simple questions about the airlines like OneWorld, Star Alliance, Skyteam and Wings Alliance on the airlines. So if you do know about with the airlines likely to be join them. Thanks!!
 
airplanetire
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:51 am

Emirates and SAA I think would be some of the most valuble airlines to Skyteam right now. Let's just hope they join. If Emirates joined Skyteam, would they have a problem with the alliance if EL AL were to later join, or vice versa?
 
deltaownsall
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:21 am

Is there any possibility that it could be SQ leaving star and joining skyteam instead of Thai? I know that SQ has ties with DL and AF, is it that far fetched to think that they would leave instead? Also, if Thai joins skyteam, is it possible that either AF or DL would lose their ties with SQ?
 
scottysair
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:01 pm

Hey Guys!!

I knew that as for remember SQ were used as for codeshare by Delta as for long time ago like 6 years or so. And that was no longer use with DL and now, did already use into UAL by Star Allaince. So this is I did exaclty way to do remember as for myself. Thanks!!
 
airblue
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:51 pm

Air France has been trying to enter in Thai share since 1999.
Last week the Thailand Govern announced the decision to find a financial partner (a large European bank or airline) and sell a part of its share.
It's likely to think AF will try to buy a stake of TG.
But I'm pretty sure Star will do everything to keep TG in the same alliance with SQ.
The new BKK airport will be one of the largest Asian hub and I think all the alliances want to be there with the "home" airline.
 
srbmod
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Tue Jun 04, 2002 12:27 am

It's no secret that Skyteam has been trying to court another Asian carrier to the alliance. The question is who will they bring in? China Airlines had been the leading candidate, but with the recent crash, that is in jeopardy. Eva Air maybe? South African Airways would give them an important African network (it would enhance AF's routes there as well), and is really the strongest African carrier. Will we see Swiss or SN Brussels or one of the 'new' European airlines join up as well with Skyteam? South America is also another area that Skyteam is lacking. ARG (formerly LAPA) has had an association with Delta in the past, but are they strong enough to be a member? I could see another North American member, but more than likely out of the Carribean than the U.S. Air Jamaica or BWIA would be my choices. Or perhaps one of the upstart Canadian carriers could join.
 
qatarairways
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Tue Jun 04, 2002 12:44 am

I don't think EK will enter Skyteam or any other alliance for that matter. EK have publicly stated that they don't want to enter any alliance. I think the member Emirates777 has more information on that matter.

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QatarAirways
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Tue Jun 04, 2002 1:04 am

Yeah but if Emirates did join SkyTeam, EL AL wouldn't join and vice versa.

It's interesting how none of the large Arab carriers have made it into an alliance yet.

EgyptAir, Saudi Arabian, Emirates, Gulf Air, Qatar Airways, Royal Jordanian, Royal Air Maroc>>

These are all viable candidates especially Emirtates and RAM. Why not?

For SkyTeam I'd like:

RAM
South African
Emirates
Thai
TAM


 
deltairlines
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Tue Jun 04, 2002 2:07 am

I do think that Air Jamaica might join eventually, and this would supplement SkyTeam's large Caribbean service. As for other carriers, Avianca and TAM are the only real possibilities I see. TAM is a partner of Air France (to my knowledge), but also of AA and I think BA (might not be though), so that might lead to OneWorld.

For Emirates, as badly as I would like to see them enter SkyTeam, they have publicly stated that they don't intend on joining an alliance. Now, this could be just PR and they are discussing the possibility of joining an alliance in the backroom at this moment, but I would tend to doubt it.

For Thai, I honestly think that they will stay in Star. After reading this month's Airways article on Star, it clearly says that Thai could have vetoed SQ's application for Star, but they didn't. However, if AF does buy the government's stake in Thai, I wouldn't be surprised to see Thai change ship. Remember, Air France has money and is making money right now, and it is in a better shape than Lufthansa/BMI/Austrian Group to buy into it.

As for another US partner for the alliances...it could be possible. However, a merger might still be the more likely option. For America West or US Airways joining, I doubt it. These two airlines don't have the financial strength to help out in an alliance, but if they rebound (I think AmWest has a shot, US Airways a really small shot), they could become nice supplements to an alliance.

Jeff
 
JayDavis
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Tue Jun 04, 2002 10:15 am

Swiss is already joining with AA in the Oneworld Alliance. I know that for a fact as a friend of mine is the sales manager for Swiss in Texas.


Jay Davis
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Tue Jun 04, 2002 11:13 am

I don't consider that TAM will join to Sky Team alliance, they are very close with American and Oneworld. Avianca (now merged with Aces) is an excellent choice. The colombian carrier flies from Bogotá to the major points of America like, Miami, New York, Los Angeles, Mexico City, Panama City, Caracas, Quito, Guayaquil, Lima, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Santiago, Buenos Aires, and in Europe serves Madrid and London Heathrow.

In the Middle East Egypt Air and Royal Air Maroc could be good choices for an alliance. But I think that the egyptian carrier offer best connections to different destiantions in Europe, Middle East, Asia, Australia, Africa, and USA.

RJ_Delta.
 
MAH4546
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Tue Jun 04, 2002 11:25 am

RJ_Delta, Avianca no longer flies to London. Unfortunatley, all the good South American carriers are taken. Star as Varig and AA/oneWorld has TAM and LanChile/LanPeru. To put in in the nicest way, the rest of the South American carriers are simply not cut out for an major global alliance. For the most part they do not fly modern fleets (how happy will a SkyTeam frequent flyer be flying a aging British Airways 757 between Miami and Barranquilla, as AV does? Not very). The rest of the South American carriers are just not cut out for the alliance word yet. Copa and Grupo TACA, however, have thier possibilites, though Copa has a very good relationship with CO. Taca also has relations with AA, but they also are partners with AF (out of MIA) and AZ (out of CCS).

JayDavies, swiss already joined with American. They now codeshare on all trans-Atlantic routes and American has begun codesharing on a code 10-15 European routes in the swiss network. In the near future, swiss will begin codesharing with American to Latin America and intra-US; and American will expand it's swiss deal to destinations in Africa and the Middle East.
a.
 
panamair
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Tue Jun 04, 2002 11:43 am

Skyteam is not likely to add any more partners in Europe in the near future (with the possible exception of Aeroflot when they get their house up to SkyTeam standards) as they pretty much cover most of the continent now with AF, AZ, and OK. In fact, "swiss" had approached SkyTeam when they were looking for an alliance (more for the DL connection than a particular affinity for AF since ZRH and CDG are too close to each other geographically for any synergies) but the response had been lukewarm at best.

Skyteam is now really concentrating on SE Asia as this is where there is a gaping hole (the whole Australasia region) for the alliance. Before the oft-mentioned TG and SQ, MH could be a potential partner even though they seemingly have a strong relationship with KL/NW. There was a news item a month or so back which said that MH had approached AF about potential cooperation and investment...loyalties and alliances can quickly switch once $$$ are involved and AF is in an enviable position right now in terms of ability to potentially invest in other carriers...and after years of continued losses, MH cannot really be that choosy...In addition, MH is already a partner in the FF programs of DL and KE and KUL has the potential to become a major hub in the SkyTeam tradition.

Of course, SQ is always the first preference, followed by TG, but you can bet that Star will fight like hell to keep both of those (probably pooling the financial resources of the major Star players to invest in TG or something like that)
 
RJ_Delta
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:03 am

And Air Afrique? Could be a good member?

RJ_Delta.
 
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Wed Jun 05, 2002 3:46 pm

Well currently Air Afrique isn't in operation. I don't think there really is an Air Afrique to speak of. Their leased planes were repo'd and I'm sure their airport leases have all been made void.

I read somewhere that Air France will try to resuscitate the carrier but I'm sure AF will only go so far in the financial department.

How great is EgyptAir? For some reason I've never viewed the airline as being terrific, sort of mediocre at best, kind of like Avianca.

I don't think either are up to the standards Delta, Alitalia, or Air France would like.

TNNH
 
gerardo
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Wed Jun 05, 2002 9:34 pm

SWISS has teamed up with AA (BTW, at high costs for SWISS), but it will still be a long and rocky way to team up with oneworld, specially as BA and apparently also IB have serious doubts.

That said, I really doubt, that SWISS would join SkyTeam, as AF and CDG are simply too big and too close. AF would rather try to degrade SWISS to a European feeder.

My 0.02 €

Gerardo
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keesje
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RE: New Airlines To Skyteam?

Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:13 pm

If being a state airline having a problematic financial past/political placed mngt is in the Skyteam admittance policy, Thai, Avianca, Swiss, SNBA, Aerolinas Argentinas, Iberia and MH could come in. However DL should leave.


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Air France / French tax-payers could "buy" one of these new partners that all urgently need cash.

Amazing how an Airline with such a debt can spend after a few years with a little profit..
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