planenutz
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:50 am

Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:46 pm

According the recent issue of Airliners magazine, Star Alliance is negotiating with the British Airports Authority to convert Heathrow's Terminal 3 into an exlcusively Star Alliance terminal once Terminal 5 is built.

BA would move to Terminal 5, and the other carriers at T3 would move to T4. Then T3 would be occupied by Star Alliance.

I know that Miami is going to open a dedicated Star Alliance concourse, as well I believe there is a dedicated Star Alliance check-in area at Frankfurt. Additionally, many Star Alliance carriers do reciprocal handling at various airports (United for Air Canada at many airports in USA, SAS for Varig at LHR, etc.). I'm wondering if this is the wave of the future. No longer will each airline have its own separate facilities, rather they will be shared among alliance partners. It seems like a good way to reduce costs and streamline processes, but at the same time airlines would be losing their identity (in my opinion).
Not all who wander are lost....
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:16 pm

Hmm. Interesting idea. Why not use Terminal 5? It's much nicer.

However, can it handle an A380? If so, I hope Virgin also moves in with Star to Terminal 3/4 even though they aren't part of it.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Milesdependent
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 5:27 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:49 pm

T5 will be BA's territory. I would therefore assume QF and the other OW carriers will use T5. Nonstar/OW airlines will use T4, and Star will use T3.

I think Star should try and get their hands on T4, and leave T3 to the non-Star/OW airlines.

MD
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:27 pm

Yup, T5 will be BA and oneWorld territory, better terminals for better alliances  Big grin  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
OH-LZA
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:38 pm

Singapore_Air,

Virgin Atlantic already uses T3, saw their planes there when I went to Heathrow a month ago.

Alex

 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:47 pm

The Star alliance have commited themselves to a spending programme to update ternminal 3 into their own specialist terminal.

BA is the national carrier and much to some people's disgust get's first pick of where it wants to be located, it was stationed in terminal four so it makes sense to be stationed in terminal five.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
B-HOP
Posts: 705
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:09 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:35 pm

than they have to spend a lot then, isn't it, I have seen a massive quene last saturday for check in and the place simply could not cope
Live life to max!!!
 
JAL
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:02 pm

I agree with GKirk, a superior terminal for a great alliance like OneWorld.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:57 pm

This is how it will possibly work out:

T3 - Star Alliance

T4 - Remaining carriers stay there

T2 - European short haul carriers not in an alliance

T1 - El Al/SAA and the current carriers stay there + plus non-alliance airlines

T5 - BA/One World carriers.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:42 pm

"T4 - Remaining carriers stay there" - A whole terminal for Air Malta and KLM? hehe

I think Oneworld should move into T5 and leave T4 for the Star Alliance.

Ideally IMO, Star should take Terminal 5.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
747firstclass
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 2:45 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:44 pm

By the time T5 is up and running, it will be time to build T6.
 
Stretch 8
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 4:00 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:56 pm

BTW, where actually is the new T5 to be located? On the same side of the field as T4?
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6876
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 3:09 am

Many things will have changed by the time T5 has opened. For example, we will finally see Delta, Continental, Northwest, and any other airline flying to London all flying into Heathrow. Where will they all go?

Honestly, I can see the following scenario playing out:

Delta, Air France, Alitalia, CSA, and Korean Air all move into Terminal 4, as they would need 8 gates at the most concurrently. KLM stays in T4, and Northwest and Continental come in. This would be another 6 gates or so. The rest of the gates go to the Air Malta (1), Kenya Airlines (1, and they are partners with NW/KL, so it makes sense to stay there) and Sri Lankan. The airlines in Terminal 3 would most likely be placed into Terminal 4 (selected long hauls), as well as Terminal 1 (since BA and BMI will have packed shop for T5 and T3 respectively).

As for the reason Star picking T3 over T4, I can think of two reasons. The first reason is gates, as there are 43 parking positions at T3, and only 29 at T4. Secondly, T4 is mostly intercontinental flights, while Star's operation at LHR is a lot of 737/A320 family (LH, BMI, Austrian). This could help account for it.

Jeff
 
Heinz
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 1:34 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 3:58 am

How many gates will T5 have ?
 
Contact Air
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 4:13 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 4:01 am

If Star Alliance moves completely into T 3 - does that also include BMI ? At the moment, BMI uses T 1 for its short-haul and inner-European flights together with BA's short-haul flights. As far as I know, T 3 is mainly used for intercontinental flights today (except SAS, for example). Will that change ?
 
n175dz
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 4:05 am

Side question! - will BA's short haul and domestic ops. also move to T5, when up and running? Or will they stay in T1?

If these ops. were to move to T5 - that would surely cut transfer times right down?

cheers, Phil.
 
japanguy
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:56 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 4:27 am

A couple things:

1. BA "owns" T4 right now. You can bet that they will have a say about who is going to use it once they leave. It is doubtful that they would let UA and the Star Alliance instantly upgrade their LHR service without major expense. I don't see the Star Alliance moving to T4.

2. T1 is supposed to be (and basically is now) a "domestic" terminal for BA and BMI. That means all short hauls with minimal customs facilities (all EU airports). Possibly a few international carriers, to supplement T2, but I see T1 as an opportunity to expand short haul service for the British carriers.

3. What about the slots? How are CO, DL, and NW going to get the slots for all the new service to NA? Also, how do you convince the British government to allow more NA carriers to access LHR?

4. Living in the IAD area, I would MUCH prefer BA (and T4) to the UA (and gross T3) service. VS is great in the air, but you still hit T3 (and hope you have fastpass to get through customs!).
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 4:47 am

T5 is being built to the west of T3, where the sewage works are currently located.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
Guest

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 9:18 am

I think the original posters ideas of having affiliated airlines do each others ground handling, etc.. is a terrific idea, I'm surprised it hasn't been put more into use, although I suspect thats because union difficulties.

Ideally, Singapore Airlines shouldn't have any presence in say the UK (where their ground service is so horrid). That should all be serviced by BMI. SQ tickets should be booked by BMI people, BMI and SQ should share terminal space, marketting in newspaper, radio, and tv, etc... and for all the other airlines.

At JFK, the Star carriers are all over.
Terminal 1:
Austrian Airlines
Lufthansa
Singapore Airlines
Terminal 3
ANA
Terminal 4
Varig
Terminal 7
Air Canada
United

For the very least, ANA and Varig should move their few flights a day to T1 where LH or SQ can service them or T7 where UA could do it.

That would be smart.
 
aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 1:19 pm

I think that the idea of combining them is great. I know the situation is a little more hectic, however I think it will be to their benefit and to the benefit of the airport if there will be less traffic of passengers between terminals.

When another airline does the ground work for another I think it is nice as long as they are getting something out of it. BMI shouldn't have to be checking everyone on Varig, Singapore, Thai, ANA and Asiana (do they even go to LHR?) If there are some reciprocal benefits then it is a good idea. Ie: United checks in ANA flights in SFO if ANA checks in United flights at KIX. Do you follow what I am saying. I don't think they should practice this just because they can.

In Rio de Janeiro, if I'm not mistaken, Varig, Lufthansa and United all operate out of the same terminal, which they use for both international and domestic flights. They share 3 lounges (2 varig, 1 united). I've never been there but I imagine they work well together.

Also, remember London already has a Star-Alliance ticket agency, they already have a big union in London.

-aio86
 
Guest

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 4:12 pm

aio86,

yeah of course the airlines would only cooperate if they "get something out of it" but thats why they joined the alliance. So if its not recipercal cooperation in another city then its financial compensation.

tnnh
 
Cyprus-Turkish
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:02 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Tue Jun 04, 2002 10:25 pm

Why can't we see Virgin Atlantic in T5 like BA? Virgin and BMI has as much right over T5 as BA. Plus whoever says BA is the national airline does not know what he is talking about since Ba is a private corporation as any other airline.

Final Note: BA is not a national airline or a flag carrier
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:26 pm

Whoever uses whichever terminal is 2ndary to getting T5 built asap.

Apart from T4, LHR is a mess. I recently flew out of T3 and it was possibly the worst terminal I've seen in a long time.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:40 pm

"LHR is a mess"......you said it......honestly, this country's planning "system" is crazy.
 
B-HXB
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:04 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Sat Jun 08, 2002 11:15 am

Having CX move to T5 would be nice. T3 is possibly one of the worst terminals I've ever been through (except maybe Bangkok, which has 2 terminals in 1 building with no differentiation between terminals!!!)

Perhaps all American-bound flights could depart from one terminal so that any security issues the US government wants addressed could be.
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:01 pm

Yyz- I couldn't agree more about T3. I was shocked when I exited the jetway and got my first glance at that terminal for the first time.

As for T5, I think Oneworld will be sole user of it. Currently, the Oneworld airlines are spread out a bit also.

Terminal 1
British Airways
Aer Lingus
Finnair

Terminal 2
Iberia

Terminal 3
Cathay Pacific
American Airlines
British Airways(Miami flight)

Terminal 4
British Airways
Qantas

I think all of the current+future Oneworld airlines will all consolidate into T5, creating a giant Oneworld terminal to ease connection time. Having made Oneworld connections at LHR, switching terminals(T3 to T1), it can take awhile and navigating through T3 is not an easy task.

Star must be having seizures right now as T3 is in terrible shape and it is going to cost a whole lot of money to renovate it, not to mention the troubles of where the planes will park during the renovation. Remember that Star isn't exactly free on this, as who ever said that American, Cathay and the other non-Star members will move?

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
aussiestu
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:32 pm

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Sat Jun 08, 2002 5:39 pm


Aio86 - Asiana OZ operates to LHR T4 at the present time.

T5 is definitely going to be for BA. As it is to be built in stages then it will firstly be used exclusively for BA. Remember they have to move everything from T1, T3 and T4 to T5. A nightmare dont you think?

As T5 is being built bit by bit then I cannot see AA and QF transferring there very quickly so you can imagine that AA, CX EI and QF will all operate from T4 in the interim.

Next year sees BA operating longhaul flights from T1 and some shorthaul flights from T4. T5 will be the biggest asset that BA has when it is up and running and will allow transfer times to be virtually eliminated.

BA certainly is the UKs national carrier despite it being a private company. How many times do you see royalty etc. travelling VS. Yes Richard may have the British Flag carrier adorning his aircraft but is he really?
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Sat Jun 08, 2002 11:41 pm

Final Note: BA is not a national airline or a flag carrier

So who is then?

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Sun Jun 09, 2002 12:37 am

Virgin Atlantic Airways!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
JU101
Posts: 831
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 1:57 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Sun Jun 09, 2002 2:22 am

Although i see the benefits of moving an entire airline alliance into one terminal, such as at London Heathrow, i do express one concern though. Will LHR allocate more money to the "star alliance terminal" and ultimately not invest enough money in other terminals?
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Sun Jun 09, 2002 3:01 am

Virgin Atlantic Airways!

Nope, a few union jacks here and there doesn't make it the flag carrier.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Star Alliance Wants All Of T3 At Heathrow

Sun Jun 09, 2002 3:06 am

Arsenal & Singapore,

I aggree that BA isn't the national carrier of the UK- we don't have a single one. As far as I'm concerned we have 3 excellent national carriers (ofcourse BA, BD & VS). The fact that BA doesn't serve ANY longhauls out of anywhere by London (the MAN-JFK flights are operated by BA CityFlyer) means that although they're the biggest, they can't possibley be our national carrier.

anyways, back on topic.....!
_______________________________

It seems like a very good idea to me, don't know what the other T3 using airlines would make of it!

At the momment the following carriers operate from T3:

  • Virgin Atlantic Airways

  • Pakistan International

  • Air India

  • United Airlines*

  • Ghana Airways

  • All Nippon*

  • Air New Zealand*

  • Sudan Airways

  • Air Namibia

  • Air Canada*

  • Air China

  • BWIA West Indies Airways

  • Ethiopian Airlines

  • Air Jamaica

  • Air Mauritius

  • Gulf Air

  • Scandinavian Airlines*

  • Turkmenistan Airlines

  • Iran Air

  • Varig Brazil*

  • Turkish Airlines

  • Eva Air

  • American Airlines

  • Biman Bangladesh

  • Egyptair

  • Kuwait Airways

  • Emirates

  • Cathay Pacific

  • Japan AirLines

  • Kibris Turkish

  • Korean Air

  • Lithuanian Airlines

  • Singapore Airlines*

  • Malaysia Airlines

  • Thai International*

  • Royal Brunei

  • Middle East Airlines

  • Royal Jordanian

  • Nigeria Airways

  • Qatar Airways

  • Saudi Arabian


  • Those marked with a * are a member of Star, but all the others would have to move!