Arsenal@LHR
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Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:03 am

While flying BA on LHR-JFK/JFK-LHR, i noticed that the majority of pax on BA flights were non-British. Looking around the cabin, there were indians,chinese,isreali's,europeans-some spanish,italian and maybe some swiss or german. There were ofcourse americans but hardly any of the pax were British, only a few, i noticed this on other BA flights to/from north america. The only reason i can think of this is that these pax are all connecting pax, transitting through LHR to parts of europe, Asia, Middle east and africa.

Is there another reason?

Rdgs
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voodoo
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:15 am

Mind your terminology.
It cuts close to BNP parlance.
Since when is `British' an observable ethnicity?
Did you just `look' around the cabin
or did you interview each passenger as to where they lived and what passport they carried and what their language at home and at work was etc etc?
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:19 am

No, i didn't ask the passengers or anything like that but, as they were in close proximity of me, i could hear them talking in their language, also a guy wearing a turban and a lady wearing a saree, don't you think they would be Indian? A few people wearing a kippa, aren't they Israeli? some people talking chinese, the appearance id chinese too, aren't they chinese?

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voodoo
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:23 am

Nope the people you describe could all be British.
`British' is not an ethnicity.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:26 am

Yes i know British is not an ethnicity but that's not my point, i'm trying to say there were lot's of people who were probably not originating in London or New York, but were transfer pax. I expected there to be more British pax since i was flying British airways.

Arsenal@LHR
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Greg
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:26 am

Lighten up. It's clear what he means.
Having flown those sectors my experience has been the opposite--mostly American and British 'it would appear.'

 
RickB
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:58 am

Okay - instead of British, can we now read Anglo-Saxon ???

Arsenal, I know what you mean - only a flight to Tokyo a while back on BA from LHR, I was one of a small handfull of western passengers, the vast majority where of Japanese origin, including the FA's. The FA's where very handy for giving hints on getting about in Tokyo, infact one FA rewrote my directions from the train station to the hotel into Japanese so that it would be easier for a local to point me in the right direction (or at least thats what she told me she had written !! - could of been anything, either way I got to the hotel without anyone thinking I was mad).

Same goes on flights to Johannesburg, most of the people I spoke to or heard on the flight where from South Africa.

I guess it proves what BA have said all along - they are the 'World's Favourite Airline'.
 
voodoo
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 2:29 am

Heh heh
Anglo-Saxon is fine as such
but there are Anglo-Saxon Brits and Anglo-Saxon transfer pax as well,
so you still can't answer the question.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
close2LAX
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:05 am

Because of stupid political correctness pretty God damn soon you will not be able to say what's on your mind even though it's clearly not even close to being racial or homophobic.
Jesus Christ.
Arsenal, I travel with BA all the time, and yes, you are right, a lot of people traveling from North America are not British or American, but mideastern, Indian etc.
 
jaysit
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:10 am

Thats why they're the "World's Favorite Airline," right?

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sk945
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:15 am

It ain't for nothing BA is one of the greatest airlines in the world. LHR Is a large hub, not necessary great, but large.
 
Guest

RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:19 am

The slogan was a marketing tool, I think most people might come to the conclusion that they aren't necessarily the "world's" favourite...

Anyhow, I've flown the JFK route twice with BA....have to say that on both those occasions, I sat next to Americans, Brits and Austrians (!), didn't really see many ethnic minorities (whatever their nationality...).

I think the last stats were something like 68% of BA travellers are not British; quite impressive, but understandable given western Europe often acts as a transiting point between the Americas and Africa, Middle East and India.

I've see a more diverse ethnic "passenger community" on my Emirates (and Alitalia) flights.

Cheers
 
CV990
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:40 am


Hi!

I got a similar experience last summer of my BA flight from LHR to YYZ. As far as I know that flight normally connects traffic comming from India and Pakistan and infact most of the passengers in that flight where from those two countries, I'm glad that during that time things where ok and no one got in trouble due to Caxemere!!!!
regards
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seven_fifty7
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:18 am

Close2lax:

Calm da hell down will ya? I don't think Voodoo was trying to be "politically correct". Ask the British themselves about what he was saying and they'll probably tell you the same thing. Afterall "British" is really not an ethnicity. There's a difference.

Doesn't sound politically correct to me.
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:26 am

When I was on BA#224 on May 14 (IAD-LHR), the 772 was only half full. Most of the passengers were American in appearance. But we had a number of Africans at check-in, most were Nigerian (with their massive suitcases), connecting to the late evening flight from LHR to Lagos.

On my return, BA#225 on May 19, the 772 was packed with what appeared and sounded to be mostly Americans. And hey Arsenal@LHR, can you answer my question about Brits with big ears and small d___s?  Big grin
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FrequentFlier
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:59 am

Just because they might look different or wear something different doesn't mean that they aren't British or American.

Western countries like these contain thousands of ethnic groups, and to make the assumption that a person with a turban on is Indian or middle Eastern is ridiculous.

However, it is widely known that LHR is an enormous hub, and it would make sense that people from countries other than the US and UK would be on a JFK-LHR flight.
 
voodoo
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:10 am

Close2lax,
What does an `American' look like?
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JetService
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:22 am

Who woke up the PC-birds? They're swooping in!!! BAAA!!!! LMAO!!!!!!

All other factors aside, a flight full of Americans would likely represent the enthnicity of the population. Mostly Anglo, many Black, many Hispanic, some Asians, a turban or two, etc. Same with a flight filled with Brits; just like U.K.

That said, if nearly every pax is non-Anglo, its safe to say many aren't Brits. That sounds like what he's pointing out.
"Shaddap you!"
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:34 am

It is true to say that a lot of 'foreign looking' people who speak a foreign language travel on BA, however they are more than likely British. Just because people live in Britain it doesnt mean to say they speak english. I know many chinese and indian people who speak they're ethnic languages while amongst family. But yes, I do know what you mean, I travelled YVR-LHR last year in business class, and there seemed to be an even split of British and Canadians. Economy seemed about the same. I also travelled LHR-SIN on BA in business and it was almost all British except for a few Aussies. All f/a's were British, in business and first anyway.

Certainly a lot of 'ethnic minority' passengers connect onto BA from the Mid-East, Africa and South Asia, mostly because BA has a vast network covering the large areas which used to be under British rule, where passenger loads are high because there is a historical and cultural connection. These passengers connect at LHR onto BA's N.American network which is the most extensive outside of north and south america. They connect because direct flights are unjustifiable, for example United wouldnt fly LAX-Zimbabwe now would they? Flights from such destinations to the UK are filled due to the reasoning above.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:37 am

Dear Arsenal@LHR, your observation is absolutely correct. I have often flown with BA and been part of that majority of foreigners.

If you have been sitting next to me, then you will have observed that I do talk sort of English language, but certainly some "dialect" which is only used on the eastern side of the Channel - the narrow strait of water which isolates the continent from Great Britain.
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roguetrader
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:58 am

Arsenal,

You are exactly right and I've noticed that too: but only on LHR-JFK and sometimes LHR-ORD. I fly LHR-DFW on both BA and AA fairly often, and I must say that on this route AA actually gets more of a variety of type of passengers, while BA seems pretty much all Americans and Brits. However, the BA flight to Dallas gets a fair amount of German and other NATO military troops going to large bases in Texas, mostly around El Paso.

Its perfect to assume people are from a certain place based on how they are dressed or what language they speak: people who say otherwise are either a. looking for something to bitch about or b. so brainwashed by their 'political correctness' that they have lost the ability to identify anyone besides to just say they are 'humans'.

Is it OK to assume someone wearing a brassiere and high heeled shoes is a woman? Is it OK to assume someone with a mustache is a man? Is it OK to assume someone with traditional Asian features and speaking Chinese is Chinese? Arsenal made no value judgment about being British or non-British - its all of you PC police who assumed that he did. You guys who insist we take a blind eye to the differences between us all are hoping for a world where we're all clones, with no identity and with none of the variety that makes the world interesting.

kind regards,

RogueTrader

 
roguetrader
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 7:07 am

Please change 'LHR-DFW' to 'LGW-DFW' and forgive me for my blatant stupidity.

RT
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 8:10 am

Some very interesting replies i must say.

I noticed the pax variety on LHR-DTW-LHR aswell. Brits seem to be a minority on some of BA north american flights. I guess this is the same for flights to/from LAX/ORD/SFO/IAD etc. On that JFK-LHR flight i was talking about, there were 3 israeli girls sitting in front of me, how did i know they were Isaeli's? Because i heard them asking the FA's for Kosher meals, and they seemed to be speaking hewbrew at times aswell.

Arsenal@LHR
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 8:54 am

Strect 8,

That thing about brit guys with big ears and big d**ks is a myth, not much value to that rumour. I've never come across that statement before, maybe someone can enlighten us on that in the non-av forum.

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TimeForFlight
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 10:08 am

Hold up - just because one wears a kippa (or yarmulke) doesn't mean he or she is Israeli. It's a Jewish custom. Not all Jews are Israelis and not all Israelis are Jews. You can't intertwine two completely separate things. I'm not being rude, but just correcting you - I am Jewish and live in a place where I am an outkast because of my religion. Stupid, huh? Well, the only way to make it better is to educate, so I hope you've all learned something.
 
jaysit
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:50 pm

Hello?
We're dealing with London Heathrow here which is one of the largest hubs for international traffic. Of course you're going to find passengers from all over the world on BA's transatlantic flights ! Whats the big deal about? At first glance when I board a plane and look around and see a woman in a saree, I think "Oh she's from India." Sure she may be from Cleveland or Manchester too, but at first glance who's to know? Ditto for the group of Lubavitcher Jews travelling en masse. I think that they're from the tristate area off to Israel (unless they're really off to Ibiza for a week of fun and frolic - but who's to k know?) Easy harmless assumption. No harm done.
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prosa
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:33 pm

Maybe the reason why there were many non-British pax on the LHR-JFK BA flights is that Briitish people traveling on that route prefer a foreign airline, just for a taste of something different.
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Guest

RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 3:36 pm

there were 3 israeli girls sitting in front of me

ooh were they cute?

Anyway, TimeForFlight is right, the Kippa doesn't mean they were Israeli, simply that they were Jewish, but Jews all over the world wear them, just as Sikhs all over the world wear Turbans.

I think I read somewhere that by 2005 there will be more Sikhs in America then in anywhere else in the world. Is that possible? Aren't there millions in India? Theres millions of everyone in India.  Laugh out loud

TNNH
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:43 pm

Ofcourse not everyone that's wearing a kippa is a Israeli, they could be from elsewhere, but they most likely aren't British. I was making a general assumption about the different types of pax on the flights and that they were many nationalities flying on BA.

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AirIndia
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:53 pm

I understand Arsenal's point. But you see, many pax on KLM, Virgin, Lufthansa etc also vary. KLK does not have majority Dutch, or Lufthansa does not have majority German. (Is wrt transit pax only)

regards
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:01 am

"I think the last stats were something like 68% of BA travellers are not British"

Wasn't it for this reason that Mr. Ailing (sp??) came up with the world images on the tails, to show that BA wasn't just a "British" airline anymore, but more of a "Global" airline ??, until it backfired on him when the likes of Baroness Thatcher showed their disapproval for them.
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GDB
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:31 am

Thatcher's disapproval was irrelevant, 'World Images' were a flop with many pax. including a lot of high yield ones.
Plane spotters liked them, that's about all though.
 
Banco
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:40 am

Leezyjet is correct though, GDB. The high numbers of non-British pax was one of the principle reasons behind going with the World Images idea. The trouble is that whilst most BA pax are not British, the high yield pax tend to come from the UK (for obvious FFP reasons amongst others) rather than overseas, and the home market hated the concept.
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:47 am

Aaagrh...I never liked the world tails, you could never tell it was a British airways plane until you saw the words "British airways" on the fuselage. The new Union jack scheme is clasy though.

Arsenal@LHR
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englandair
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:09 am

Look-

The VAST majority of British people are white. So large ammounts of people that aren't white would indicate that there were non Brits on the plane. Simple.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:16 am

The VAST majority of British people are white. So large ammounts of people that aren't white would indicate that there were non Brits on the plane. Simple.

Aaaahhh......How refreshing! That's what i've been trying to get across.

Arsenal@LHR
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Leezyjet
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:21 am

Arsenal,

I must say the scheme I liked most, was the interim scheme they had before the world tails were introduced. I thought that looked much better than the current one, although I do like the current one.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:24 am

You mean the "landor" colour scheme before the world tails came in? I like that one too, it was a pure classic although all good things come to an end, it needed a change.

Arsenal@LHR
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voodoo
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:40 am

I don't think PC-ness enters into this.
In fact, its quite the opposite.
The original message (if you read it slowly) described people judged merely by `looking around the aircraft cabin' and deciding who was `British'.
Even listening to them talk wasn't mentioned.
Clearly that isn't workable, as described.
London's population itself is now 1/3rd `ethnic'.

Perhaps y'all just aren't aware of it,
but there is a background to this in that, unlike the 2-party system in the U.S.
where both adhere more or less to a written constitution,
in Britain there is a minor but active racist `British National Party' (BNP) which runs in elections, wins the odd town council seat, and uses any oppurtunity to classify `British' as white and English-speaking (the rest, even if born in Britain, `should be sent back where they came from').
Its the -opposite- of PC to say
`uh, you can say that, but you are wrong: here's why'.

There was nothing wrong in making sure Arsenal's opinion did not reflect or mean to encourage a BNP outlook, and I think he clarified or amplified his actual intent satisfactorily.
Mere curiousity on my part.
You can call that `PC police work' if you are of a paranoid persuasion, or a Rush Limbaugh dork. Its a free country, so I'm told.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
englandair
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:57 am

So basically you were just sh!t stiring and causing racial tension.......
 
Banco
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:40 am

How about this is turned round a touch:

"Perhaps y'all just aren't aware of it,
but there is a background to this in that, unlike the 2-party system in the U.K.
where both adhere more or less to a uncodified constitution that has stood up for almost a thousand years without any extreme government,
in the US there is a minor but active racist `Ku Klux Klan (KKK) which blah, blah, blah."

I hardly think we need a lesson from you about the shortcomings of the UK, when they are so clearly mirrored in many other countries. Do not proselytise, it doesn't become you.

Although the language of Arsenal@LHR could have been better expressed, I think most people were fairly clear about where he was coming from. Your comments have added little to the debate, and your most recent posting has merely come across as arrogance of the highest order.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 5:01 am

Arsenal,

This is the one I meant.....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ian Bowley
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Brian Wilkes



Just an updated version of the old one..........
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 5:10 am

That colour scheme looks incomplete, where's the red cheatline/speedbird logo?

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Leezyjet
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 5:18 am

Arsenal,


It's gone, as I said it was the interim one before the new World Images were released, as they knew they were changing the colour scheme, it made sense for a/c that were due for re-painting to be painted in the basic new colours, but retaining the old style tail, so as not to reveal anything before the official 'launch'. I think with the new logo thingy on the front, it would look even better tho. I prefer this one to the current one.

"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
jaysit
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Thu Jun 06, 2002 5:25 am

From a random sampling of this posting:

Scary Spice = Not British at first glance
Queen = British at first Glance (perhaps, a bit too British)
Madonna = British and speaks it too (until you rudely wake her up inflight upon which she will cuss you out in her natural homegrown Detroit patois)
Daljit Dhaliwal = Flies Virgin, so doesn't count.
Large group of white folk in Zone E = look British to the untrained eye, but actually from Minnesota. Don't understand why the Chicken Tikka meal option is British.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:35 am

Like it or not, PC or not, Britain is primarily an anglo-saxon country. So, yes, British is absolutely an ethnicity.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
voodoo
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:58 am

Banco, Uh, oh. I suspect you just mistook me for a Yank (re: my use of y`all') in which case I can see why you got angry. The KKK analogy is a good one though. I had considered using it but didn't want to broaden things unnecessarily
since, AFAIK, they don't run candidates.

YYZ717, part of the definition of ethnicity is that people describe it for themselves. However, the Welsh and Scots would probably beg to differ with your description, not to mention a vast array of English people.

Englandair, re: sh**tstirring... no the opposite actually. Please re-read the thread.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
englandair
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Fri Jun 07, 2002 3:29 am

I read it correctly thank you!
 
Banco
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RE: Ethnicity Of Pax On BA Flights

Fri Jun 07, 2002 4:06 am

No, Voodoo, I didn't mistake you for an American at all - perhaps since you have introduced racial sensitivity to this topic you ought to more careful in your description of Americans and not refer to them as "Yanks" since many find that term offensive. I formed no opinion whatsoever on your background. You were the one that introduced the US system into the discussion, comparing it with the British one. I merely turned it around to show the folly of using one nation against another in the way you did.

You are tying yourself in knots over this. To disagree with yyz717's comments the way you did is ludicrous. The peoples of the British Isles are highly intermixed, and the term Anglo-Saxon is often used to describe them, although it is impossible to discover the ethnicity of the caucasian population. For a start, if you subscribe to the view that the English are Anglo-Saxon (which you appear to concede even though it isn't necessarily true), then you have to accept that the English make up over 80% of the UK population. Hence your argument falls apart.

In any case, Englandair's allegation may have been less than elegantly put, but I must agree with the sentiment. You are now trying to defend the indefensible, while engaging in the kind of sterotyping which you claim to be against.

She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.