kaitak
Posts: 8969
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Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 6:10 am

It's been reported by the BBC that a 747-400 operating Qantas's flight QF 1 from Sydney to LHR (via BKK) has suffered a nosegear failure at BKK, while landing on the shorter of the two runways. The aircraft slithered along the runway and off to the side, ending up with a third of it in the golf course (between the two runways).

The aircraft was landing during an electrical storm.

So, in the last month or so, the following aircraft have either been damaged or destroyed while landing in bad weather :
CAL/Mandarin MD11, Qantas 747 (PER), World MD11 (Shannon), Britannia 757 (Gerona) and now, this one.
Another Qantas accident - in the space of two weeks. Hmm . . .
 
DeltaAir
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 6:43 am

Wow! Qantas is a really surprising airline for this to happen to. They have never had an accident involving an aircraft. Hmm... Brings up a whole new meaning to the world holding pattern doesn't it?
 
LH423
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:13 am

in the 80 years QANTAS has been around, and to never have had a serious accident, this is really startling. What's next the Concorde (which also has never suffered a major accident) plummets out of the sky from 60.000 ft. Where's the aviation world going to if a safe airline like QANTAS has an accident. I now that accidents are bound to happen, but really, QANTAS?
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
twa747100
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:16 am

RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:34 am

GOLF COURSE??
GEEZE
Thats weird!
matt
 
Cathay111
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:35 am

I am appalled at the above posting. You make it sound as if an airline can somehow be exempt from incidents. It is a shame that this incident occured, however in over 75 years of service I am sure this incident will not tarnish QF's image at all.

As for the Concorde, a couple of years back one lost half of it's rudder inflight at Mach 2.0 enroute from New Zealand to Sydney.

In the aviation business, anything can happen, anywhere and anytime. Next time before making such a comment as "I now that accidents are bound to happen, but really, QANTAS?" take into consideration that there is no real information available on the incident yet so it is FAR TOO EARLY to make assumptions.

Please, am I the only one slightly offended by the above post?

Kind Regards
Craig Murray
 
Ilyushin96M
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:38 am

C'mon, guys...seems to me what happened with the QANTAS plane can be called an incident rather than an accident. Nothing serious, if I understand correctly! Hell, a Concorde suffered some burst tyres once on landing, and no one thought much of it. Nose-wheel collapse may be a bit scarier and more serious, but is the plane considered a hull loss? No. Were there any fatalities? No. Planes are machines, operated by humans. They are subject to failure, accident and incident...whatever you want to call it.
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK--CX111

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:47 am

Oh man! Thank you sooo much! My sentiments exactly!

Geese guys...get off your high horse. It happens to the best of airlines!

FLY777UAL
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK--CX111

Fri Sep 24, 1999 9:57 am

Thanks 777UAL.

If there is one thing that really gets me going it is the sensationalism that occurs after even a minor incident. Please don't bring it here!

I am waiting on the registration of the aircraft involved at the moment, will post as soon as I have it!

Craig Murray
 
Den
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 2:29 pm

The only plan in the system was QFA1R, the rego beings VH-OJG B747-400. Seems it was delayed ex Sydney but departed at 0054z putting it in Bangkok on flight plan at abt 0954z.
 
RA001
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 3:56 pm

Thank you CX111, Ilyushin96M and FLY777UAL....a realistic perspective.

From what I have heard BKK ATC did not inform QF1 of the very wet runway conditions. Not saying they are to blame but I wouldn't put it all down to QF either. Incidents happen. Maybe a little bit of tall poppy....given that QF has not had a major airframe write-off.

Wonder if it interupted anyone's game?

RA001.
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 6:18 pm

Perhaps you could say they scored a "hole in one". Coming to a rest on a Golf Course and all!!

The aircraft involved is VH-OJN (c/n25315/883 Del 11/91) City of Dubbo.

Lucky their new Boeing 747-438, VH-OJS, has just been delivered to Avalon for a cabin refit. Good timing given the circumstances.

Regards
Craig
 
User avatar
ravi
Posts: 254
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 6:37 pm

Reason why the incident has higher consequence for QF than other airlines is because it happens so rarely and because of the myth (and hype) in the world that QF is the world's safest airline (thanks to Dustin Hoffman and Rainman).

An incident for Qantas will not tarnish their reputation. In deed, the best of sensationalism has suggested that this incident "is the worst in the history of Qantas" (which is actually false, not that anyone will take the time to note it).

QF lost a Constellation to fire in 1959 (about). A few years later a 707 dug its nose into the runway at Singapore. In 1927 a piston-engined airplane was lost with loss of life.

This is not the worst day in QF's history, nor the best. An incident it is, however, and an incident it shall remain. Also, it is not a hull loss, so QF insurance premiums remain intact!
 
Guest

RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:11 pm

Thanks Ravi, It's about time, that needed to be said. HooRoo, Mr Satnaq.
 
A330
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:28 pm

Every airline suffers an incident every 20 years or so.
You can expect something to happen after so many years of luck.
Mostly, and these are observations made by IATA, a major incident is the finale of several minor incidents (indeed, QF has suffered some during the last year)
Last year, Sabena (the Safest airline of Europe) suffered a major incident with the sudden collapse of the right main gear of an A340 (Faulty construction).
At that moment, airmanship and luck will determine the fate of pax and plane.

Another thing:
September is the BLACK MONTH in aviation, with the most accidents.
This is known by airline insiders and pilots.
After the busy and stressing holidays, Sept. is a month where everything gets normal again, tension is away, but so can concentration . There tends to be a more "relaxed" feeling, and this in all departments. Weather is also detoriating.
Look at the number of accidents, and you will agree.
Shiek!
 
Guest

RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:51 pm

What happened with World in EINN? I hadn't heard, thanks for any info.
 
Guest

RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 7:56 pm

Pretty good effort to keep the thing straight. That's got to say something for the crew.

TU-154 GO AUSSIE !
 
kaitak
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 8:44 pm

Hello 50c2r,

The World aircraft was operating an Aer Lingus flight to Shannon last Saturday morning (18/9) when it ran off the runway; only minor damage, but atrocious weather at the time; all 317 escaped without injury.

Apologies to any posters who took my opening line the wrong way. Having flown over 25,000 miles with QF, I have nothing but the highest respect for the airline. However, I do think it is worthy of note that an airline should have two accidents in similar circumstances within a month - particularly one as reputable as Qantas.

Finally, I am happy to say that the crew of the 747 which had the landing accident at Perth have now been returned to line flying. I was particularly sorry for the captain, who was having his first flight after completing line training on his conversion.
 
Guest

RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 9:04 pm

Imagine - a Captain tries to keep his shots on a golf course straight and only time he manages to do so when he hasn't got a club in his hand.
 
gardermoen
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Fri Sep 24, 1999 10:02 pm

Remember the same sort of thing that happened to Ansett Australia back in October 1994? One of its spaceship 747s had to turn back to Sydney on its Kansai run and upon landing the nose wheel collapsed.
 
kaitak
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RE: Ansett 743

Sat Sep 25, 1999 1:09 am

Gardermoen, I remember that accident well. I think it was due to a large extent to the crew's inexperience, the 747 being very new to AN at that stage. Thankfully, again, non fatal, and the aircraft returned to service. (I'm not entirely sure if the nosegear was locked or even fully down when it landed - Australian commentators, comments?)

Leading edge, that comment was below par. Anything else like that and we may have to give you the birdie!
 
pandora
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Sat Sep 25, 1999 10:17 am

Also the Olympics excutive was on board this flight and he was terrified!

This incident was similar to the American MD-80 accident in little rock some time ago.

Kai Tak, this is not an accident-in fact QANTAS never had a fatal accident beofre. It is regarded as the safest airline in the world.
 
Cathay111
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VH-OJH

Sat Sep 25, 1999 11:39 am

Apologies to all,

the aircraft involved was infact VH-OJH c/n24806.

Sorry for posting the wrong info above.

Craig
 
Guest

RE: VH-OJH

Sat Sep 25, 1999 2:34 pm

The Captain was a check and training captain for QF, therefore one of the most experienced in the industry, so pilot error can be pretty much ruled out. From what i hear BKK ATC did not advise the crew as to the severity of the runway conditions at the time of the electrical storm. In my humble opinion i think the crew should be applauded for keeping control of the 744, they were able to keep it dead straight down the runway. The nose gear collapsed when they hit a light at the end of the runway.

How many incidents in poor weather have there been lately without such a casulty free and relatively damage free ending? Well done Qantas, still the world's safest airline (IMHO anyways!)
 
A330
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Sat Sep 25, 1999 5:06 pm

I'm not saying the crew made a mistake here, but beeing a training/check captain or Chief pilot of a major airline does not rule out errors.
The Capt. of the AA MD80 in Little Rock was Chief pilot MD80 for AA and Capt. Van Zanten who was the "Star" pilot of "the reliable Airline" KLM led his B747 into disaster in Tenerife!
Human error can happen to ANYONE.
By the way, when not adviced about the runway conditions during a storm, a REQUEST about the runway conditions and braking effectiveness are a proof of good airmanship.
Anticipating is always better than a reaction.

Tino
Shiek!
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Sat Sep 25, 1999 9:53 pm

Vey good point, A330. I didn't know about the AA captain, but Captain Jacob Louis Veldhuizen Van Zanten was not only the "star pilot", he had also featured in a number of KLM ads in Time magazine (and similar) in the mid 1970s.
Indeed, it was said that this very fact contributed to the accident, in that the first officer, Klaas Meurs, was relatively new to the 747 and on that day, Van Z. was quite tetchy, due to the need to get back to AMS before his flying hours were up. Meurs questioned him once about clearance, but the irritable reply prevented him from doing so again. Only the flight engineer, whose last - perhaps now immortal - words, "Is he not clear, that Pan American?" spoke up as the 747 began its roll.
 
thai747
Posts: 784
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Sat Sep 25, 1999 10:06 pm

Good evening from Bangkok,

this is an extract from The Nation Newspaper exactly for today

Minor accident forces closure of runway

THE Bangkok International Airport shut down a runway yesterday after an Australian Qantas jet skidded while landing in a heavy rainstorm on Thursday night.

Airport deputy managing director Utsa Borisut said the runway would be closed till Oct 8 because the jet had damaged several installations on it.

The Boeing-747, carrying more than 410 passengers and crew, sustained damage to the nose, landing gear, engines and possibly fuselage after skidding off the runway at 10:46 pm on Thursday, Qantas said.

The 747 was en route from Sydney to London when it ploughed off the end of the runway into the landing lights, Thai officials said.

Emergency crews rushed to the scene to drain tonnes of fuel from the jetliner lest it explode.

No one was seriously injured, a Qantas spokeswoman said, adding that the cause of the accident had not yet been established.

In Sydney Qantas said it was investigating whether the plane might have aquaplaned when it ploughed off the end of the rain-soaked runway.

One witness said the airliner had skidded along the runway on its belly after its nose wheel snapped during Thursday night's landing, but Qantas has yet to confirm details.

Qantas chief executive James Strong said authorities were investigating whether the aircraft had aquaplaned.

''[That] is the term used when the aircraft actually skids on the amount of water on the runway and thereby inhibits braking action,'' he told ABC radio.

''That certainly is something that is being investigated. This is the most serious incident I can recall,'' he added.

Strong said passengers had been evacuated down the emergency slides and accommodated in hotels in Bangkok.

A Qantas technical team was expected to arrive from Sydney later yesterday to join the Thai National Air Safety Commission investigation at the accident site.

''It will take a few days before the airline completes its investigation and salvages the airplane,'' Bangkok airport managing director Commander RN Uthai Thaisanthad said.

Uthai said he did not expect the closure of the eastern runway to hamper flights as the western runway was able to handle up to 38 flights an hour.

''It should not cause any problem as we can accommodate some 34 to 36 landings at peak hour . . . There may be a slight delay, but no major problems,'' he said.

Deputy Communications Minister Pradit Pataraprasith said he had not been informed of the real cause of the accident.

''I believe that the condition of our runway is up to world standards,'' he stated, ruling out that the runway's condition had had anything to do with the accident.

One of the passengers, Australia's International Olympic Committee vice-president Kevan Gosper, said he had feared the 747 would catch fire after it ploughed off the runway.

''We didn't know whether the plane would break into fire . . . There were some very anxious moments,'' he said.

''Quite a big section of the ceiling in our [first-class] cabin dropped, and the oxygen masks came down, but the cabin compartments stayed intact,'' Gosper said.

Another passenger, Grant Greentree, said he had heard a lot of screaming as the plane skidded and belongings were thrown about.

But, said Greentree, who had been in business class, ''there was a very orderly exit from the aircraft. There was no smoke, no fire, and then people started to crack a few jokes''.

there's also a photo I've got



 
RA001
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Damage

Sun Sep 26, 1999 10:02 am

For the critics...the captain was a SENIOR check & trainer.....I've done a few sectors with QF in the jump seat in my time and the request for weather/runway info from ATC is standard.

Anyway, VH-OJH lost the nose wheel, one of the wing main undercarriage bogies and hit number 1 & 4 engines.....which have just had the expensive RR Trent upgrade.

RA001
 
Ice Cream Man
Posts: 121
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Sun Sep 26, 1999 10:28 am

About this being an accident or an incident, there seems to be quite some confusion on this subject.

If I remeber correctly (long time ago), an incident becomes an accident if there are casualties, serious bodily injuries or substantial damage to the airframe, structure and/or engines of the aircraft affecting the airworthiness of the aircraft.

I would think that a collapsed nosewheel affects the airworthiness of the aircraft, therefore this is an accident.

A minor accident that is, as the Thai newspaper already pointed out. However you want to call it, it doesn't really matter in this case, but to pretend it was just a little hickup, like some of you do, seems to be missing the point slightly. Yes, it turned out rather well, but it could have so easily turned out really nasty. There was a very thin margin indeed.

And another thing, these comments about Qantas being the safest airline....common guys, let's use some common sense. Just because an airline hasn't had any big accidents doesn't neccesairily make them the safest airline in the world. There are so many more things involved (for one the size of the airline). I am not saying Qantas isn't safe, of course it is, but so are most airlines....and still an accident can happen, with any of them.
 
thai747
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Sorry Picture Changed ,

Sun Sep 26, 1999 12:08 pm

The Nation has reupdated their picture in the homepage ... the new picture is here




Or Click Here!!
 
Cathay111
Posts: 517
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Is That A New TG Scheme?

Sun Sep 26, 1999 6:39 pm

The 747 picture in one fo the above messages features what looks to be a specially painted Boeing 747 aircraft.......who's is it?

Craig
 
thai747
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 1:23 pm

RE: Is That A New TG Scheme?

Sun Sep 26, 1999 7:23 pm

That is Thai 's new 747-400 special scheme .. called "Supunhong" or royal barge.. the aircraft's name is Haripulchai..

although after today ( 26 of September ) the picture will change into something else
 
F27
Posts: 399
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RE: Just Deserts

Mon Sep 27, 1999 2:11 am

What goes around comes around Qantas have now got there own back after the the incident in 1995 and now the foot is on the other shoe
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
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RE: Just Deserts

Mon Sep 27, 1999 2:21 am

Can't agree at all, F27. I presume you mean the Ansett incident in 1994. There is not - and NEVER should be - competition between airlines when it comes to safety. All airlines, no matter how fierce their commercial competition, regard accidents or incidents of any kind with the same disdain and there is no question of one upmanship or "getting one's own back" in this area. Believe me, neither Ansett nor any other carrier will take any pleasure from last week's accident.

By the way, there are two "s"s in desserts.
 
Guest

RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Mon Sep 27, 1999 6:44 am

Hey dont knock Qantas about saftey, they are one of the most strigent airlines when it comes to maintainance. I usedto work for them and i was actuially working not applying the MEL all the time those aircraft get the most and best attention i have ever seen, and yes accidents happen, but lives are saved by integerty training and professionalism, and qantas has all of that.

 
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ravi
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Mon Sep 27, 1999 7:43 am

What???

QF didn't murmur a thing when AN dropped the nose at SYD!!! How can they therefore "get their own back?"
 
gardermoen
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Mon Sep 27, 1999 12:12 pm

Just to add something to the QF/AN thing, when the Ansett nose wheel collapse occured, one QF exec sent a Christmas card to AN that said "Merry Crashmas and Happy Nose Gear" In very bad taste...
 
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ravi
Posts: 254
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RE: Qantas 744 Accident At BKK

Mon Sep 27, 1999 12:51 pm

Any executive that sent any such Christmas card now does not have a job.