B747-437B
Topic Author
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Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Sun Jun 09, 2002 11:47 pm

Michael Dasrath, who was traveling on a Continental Airlines non-revenue standby pass obtained through his wife, has sued Continental Airlines for the "economic loss, humilitation, embarassment, emotional distress and the deprivation of the right to travel as a passenger in air transportation".

Mr. Dasrath, a US Citizen of Guyanese origin, believes that he was pulled out of his non-revenue First Class seat on a flight on NEW YEARS EVE from Newark to Tampa solely on the basis of his somewhat Middle Eastern appearance.

Continental later reaccomodated him as POSITIVE SPACE PASSENGER in FIRST CLASS on a flight to Orlando leaving 30 minutes later, as well as provided him VOUCHERS for ground transportation to Tampa. However, he allegedly suffered "financial injury" as a result of this.

Read the complete text of the plaint at : http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/aclu/dasrathcnt60402cmp.pdf
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
rootsgirl
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:00 am

I think we need all the facts here.

Non revs should go on last. Is it possible that a confirmed pax upgraded? If this is the case the airline will usually remove the pax that checked in last ( obviously the non-rev) It appears that Continental tried to make up for this by giving him a " confirmed" seat on the next flight as well as vouchers. I am in the industry and this is not abnormal.

But, I can't seem to get into the URL that has the text of the plaint, so I really don't know the pax side to it.
 
erj-145mech
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:32 am

Non-Rev's, or pass riders do not have legal recourse, due to the "terms and conditions" that they accept when they use the privilege. It is not policy to give the pass rider a first class seat and voucher if they are denied boarding for whatever reason. He must have been a first class upgrade to receive these.

If he was a bona fide pass rider, and he caused a scene, he would jeopardise his wife's pass riding privilege, or possibly cause for dismissal.

Dave
TYS MX
Continental Express
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:39 am

If he was of Guyanese origin, then he must have been a black person, so how can he have a "middle eastern appearance"?

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
David_itl
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:48 am


Arsenal, there's a fair amount of people with Indian ethnicity on Guyana as well!

David
 
Looks2SkyOften
Posts: 5
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:51 am

I personally think these race based lawsuits are ludicrous and are going to destroy the industry and eventually kill more Americans. This is falling right into the plan of our enemies, our rules and freedoms are playing against us and it will turn us against one another, it is unfortunate but things have changed, many things and if it means you have to put up with a little extra crap because people of your mother land infiltrated the trust of your fellow Americans and killed them, then deal with it or go back.

I do not consider my self racist but the facts remain, 19 men of middle eastern decent overtook four airliners and killed thousands of american citizens. Are we not supposed to take a closer look at these individuals, should we just let it happen again because we are afraid we will be sued, am I as a pilot supposed to suspect someone and not do anything about it only to find that individual jamming a plastic fork into my neck or trying to ignite his sneakers. These law suits are frivolous and greedy, they need to be thrown out immediately and the federal government needs to stand behind that decision. It is now an issue of national security, period!
 
Brick
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:56 am

I've lost count how many times I've been settled into to first class and I've gotten yanked back into coach while flying non-rev with AA. Just about how many times I've been settled in coach and have had to get off the plane all together because of a late passenger check-in.

In the non-rev world it's very common...

Mark Abbott
Denver, CO
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
McRingRing
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:05 am

Yeah, but I'm sure you weren't removed because another passenger thought you were acting suspicious, despite not talking to anyone or getting out of your seat - which is this man's (and the ACLU's  Yeah sure ) claim. Even saying that the other CO employees recognized this as profiling and were apologetic and embrassed. They also probably didn't go through your luggage and destroy a computer you bought for your kids. Another claim.

I'd like to see what the crew on that flight has to say.
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Looks2SkyOften
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:36 am

I have read the above complaint by the party suing and if they are the facts this man and the others were defiantly unfairly treated. They judged tried and punished based on anther passengers suspicion because they were of "brown skin" thats what she said, frankly continental should of removed her for starting a ruckus. A better solution would have been for the captain to speak to these men inquire about there travel, this is the kind of "extra crap" I mentioned above, but again this puts the captain on the hook for a law suit based on discrimination. Can we be safe without being discriminatory.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:42 am

this is crap,when you are non reving you know that you are the bottom of the food chain.

he is playing the race card and he won.CO should have pulled his wifes passes and pulled his as well.

i dont care if your black or white,when you non rev you have to expect that.

i have been pulled out of first class and told to go sit in coach,other way around as well.i was told that first class just opened up would you like to sit up there?


you have no rights as a non rever.your not even paying for a tkt!!!
 
McRingRing
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:46 am

Ual777contrail: read the complaint, think about it, then consider opening your mouth. But only if you have something worth saying.
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 2:08 am

Yeah i forgot that, guyanese people of indian origin, that's why they thought he was "arab looking".

In Arsene we trust!!
 
hmflyer
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 2:21 am

If you read the facts it is clear that the passenger was not removed to let revenue passengers take their seats. If that had been the case, CO would not have gone through great lengths to get the nonrevs on the Orlando flight.

People seem to feel that when you are flying nonrev, you are not entitled to basic respect, this is not the case. True you are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to getting a seat or meals, but when it comes to being treated with respect, nonrevs are entitled to as much as anyone else.

If in fact CO removed this nonrev for no other reason but their appearance than CO should be held liable. Nonrev or not, that passenger had as much right to be on the plane as anyone else. If some other passenger has a problem with his appearance, she should have been given the option to leave.

Remember the blind passenger that sued America West because they were removed from First Class because another passenger objected to the seeing-eye dog. The passenger won the suit and was in fact a non-rev.

I guarantee that the LAST thing CO will do is pull the wife's nonrev passes. To do so would only give another reason, rightfully so, to sue.

 
Alpha 1
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:11 am

I guarantee that the LAST thing CO will do is pull the wife's nonrev passes. To do so would only give another reason, rightfully so, to sue.

No, they won't pull her pass privelages, but if she and her hubby are suing, over something the airline has a right to do-airlines have a right to deny anyone boarding), then they'll just terminate her employment with the company.
 
fly_emirates
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:33 am

when i saw the post first of all and saw that he is a non rev passenger, i thought well he cant sue, but while reading the complaint, i can only say that America is getting paranoia all over the place! I mean true that the people who hijacked the planes were of a middleastern descent, but the terrorists are not that stupid to play the same game again, and they would want to use another method.

I travel as a non-rev on myairline, just paying 5% of the ticket price, and i would understand that i should giveup my seat if there was a revenue passegner, the thing is when i am working on that flight and a passenger comes to me and she is like "Oh, i dont feel comfortable flying with that passenger because he is from such race," i would rather deplane her, and put her on another flight. in addition, she was seated in economy, what would bring her to the first class? and why did the captain listen to her instead of calming her down? this is a real case of racial discrimination.

the only case of deplaning that i agree with is the case that occured on American airlines, when they had to deplane the armed secret agent.

and ual777contrail, when ever i read your comments, they are just as sick! please consider reading the facts when you post next time, rather than making your self appear as a mindless idiot.

 
nonrevman
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:33 am

I have to go with HMflyer on this one. If he was removed because of skin color and not because of another check-in, then we have a problem here (nonrev or not). Since none of us likely observed the actual situation, who knows exactly what happened?

As a nonrev, I would say that we are simply lucky to get on the plane these days. First Class is a great benefit, but the paying people must be accomodated first. However, if a nonrev is removed due to discrimination alone, then they do have a case.
 
Squigee
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:55 am

It would be a shame if this one incident ruines it for everyone... imagine if Continental decides it's a smaller hassle and risk if they stop the whole program
Someday, we'll look back at this, laugh nervously, and then change the subject.
 
artsyman
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 4:00 am

I am interested to see how he suffered financial injury. I hope that he was trying to get to a business meeting or something as we are not allowed to use our passes for business travel, they are for pleasure only, so if he missed a business meeting or something because of this, then he is up the creek

Jeremy
 
padcrasher
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 4:06 am

The fact that he was non-reving does not mean squat. If it is determined CO was grossly negligent then damages can be awarded. No company can waive away liability for actions that are determined to be "grossly negligent". No matter what the terms and conditions of his ticket read. To make an extreme case, the gate agent cannot shoot non-revs they dislike can they? Or do the terms and conditions of his ticket allow this.
 
McRingRing
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 4:14 am

Artsyman: read the link at the top of the page. He was just trying to get home to his family for New Year's. I doubt that's against company policy. He claims the laptop he bought for his kids was destroyed because someone tore open his bag. Then again, I guess they can always post a "not responsible for theft or damage" sticker somewhere to relieve themselves of even more responsibility. Better yet, a "we can do anything we want" sticker would advise travellers that they have no rights, as some here would have us believe.

BTW, you would think people would actually read the link before spouting their "airlines can never do wrong" rhetoric. Not aimed at anyone in particular, but I'm sure you know who you are. We'll have a better idea of the whole picture if and when CO issues a statement about this, but I'm sure it will be along the lines of "can't comment on litigation."
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777236ER
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 4:53 am

over something the airline has a right to do-airlines have a right to deny anyone boarding

Despite what's said on the ticket, airlines need a reason to offload somebody. Their legislation does not superceed state and federal legislation. If a person is offloaded because they're black or asian or female or a lowly coach customer or just because the captain didn't like them, the airline is in the wrong, DESPITE what's written on the ticket, and the passenger should (rightfully) sue and win damages.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
artsyman
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:04 am

Despite what you guys think, a non rev has no rights when it comes to getting a seat, none. We are told this, it is on a waiver that we have to acknowledge everytime we go to list ourselves for a flight. There are lots of times that non revs are pulled off a flight because a full fare showed up last minute. Non revving is a perk, it is a space available perk. I am not sure what the guy is expecting to gain, his wives job will be strained severely, and he is never going to get much money out of this if any at all, so all he is doing is making life difficult for everyone.

Jeremy
 
avion
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:10 am

I think MR. Dasrath is 100% right. He was removed on the basis of racial discrimination and CO should pay for that.

Tom
 
ExitRow
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discriminat

Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:32 am

After reading the complaint (which I recommend to everyone), it seems like an unfortunate experience for Mr. Dasrath. It also has almost nothing to do with "non-revenue" service. Based on this account, this man was needlessly pulled from the plane and subjected to stress he did not deserve.

The key phrase in the complaint IMO is:

Mr. Dasrath was cleared by airport security to proceed to gate C-91, where his flight was scheduled to depart at 4:10 p.m.

Whether the woman with the dog was suspicious or not, Mr. Dasrath PASSED two security checks. (Including the "random" second check.) Would she and her dog be more at ease if they strip-searched him in the cabin and duct-taped him to his seat?

"...brown-skinned men are behaving suspiciously."

If this phrase was indeed spoken aloud and confirmed, and the Captain removed the passenger based on that complaint despite being cleared by airport security personnel, the airline seems to have discriminated against Mr. Dasrath and he should be entitled to damages based on the law and not opinion.

As President George W. Bush himself said, "no one should be singled out for unfair treatment or unkind words because of their background or religious faith." Attorney General Ashcroft affirmed, "we must not descend to the level of those who perpetrated Tuesday's violence by targeting individuals based on their race, their religion, [or] their national origin."

Seems like a no-brainer to me. Selective employees of Continental airlines made a bad decision in this case, and unfortunately, the company will have to pay the consequences.

These things should be reviewed on a case-by-case basis and not overly generalised as "playing the race card."


 
englandair
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:38 am

Well it beats working for a living......
 
jhooper
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 6:54 am

I read the entire complaint. I think the important thing to remember is that there are two (at least) sides to every story, including this one. I would be interested in reading Continental's answer.

I realize non-revs are sometimes treated like crap, and to an extent they should suck it up (after all, the ticket is basically free). He may have difficulty suing for "breach of contract" and "possessing a valid ticket" and similar claims. However, if the man's complaint is found to be the fact of the case (which I'm sure there's more to it than that-flight crews are usually more reasonable than that), then I believe he has a case for racial discriminateion and the destroyed luggage, and CO should pay up accordingly.

If the same had happened to me, I probably would have left this battle to be fought by a fare-paying customer, since I would probably stand to lose more in the long run. Yea, I might get $1000 settlement out of the damaged computer, but I would most likely lose my pass privileges (which I could easily travel $10,000 worth of free tickets each year).
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 8:30 am

I think the important thing to remember is that there are two (at least) sides to every story, including this one. I would be interested in reading Continental's answer.

Unfortunately, my experience with dealing with Continental on these issues leads me to believe that they will deny the facts of the case to cover their ass. Let me give you an example here. On October 16, I was pulled out of my first row aisle seat on a EWR-ATL flight by a pilot and forcibly reassigned to a middle seat at the back of the plane. Here are the two accounts of the situation, with vastly differing facts. These accounts are excerpted from the official correspondence between myself and Continental. In the end, I chose not to pursue legal action despite multiple solicitations from lawyers who heard about my case.

---
My version :


On Tuesday, October 16, I flew from EWR-ATL on flight CO 1155. As an Elite level frequent flier, I had pre-reserved and was assigned the preferred bulkhead aisle seat 5C.

I checked in and cleared security with no hassles and was settled in my assigned seat with a few minutes to go before departure when I was approached by Capt. Daniel Broderdorf who had been observing the passenger boarding process closely. He informed me that I would have to move from my assigned seat to another one at the rear of the aircraft, despite the seat 5B next to me being empty.

When I attempted to retrieve some of my personal items stowed in the seat pocket, I was told to “leave them there” and to head back to row 19, where I was instructed to take seat 19B between two large men. This was despite other aisle seats being available at the rear of the aircraft. To add insult to injury, Capt. Broderdorf then requested the non-revenue passenger who had been previously seated in row 19 to take my assigned seat 5C. A number of passengers looked visibly alarmed at this chain of events, especially since I am of Indian descent and have a complexion that is often mistaken for Middle Eastern.

I have no objection to racial profiling when it is used as a tool to unobtrusively select someone for additional scrutiny. If any Continental employee had approached me and asked for an additional ID or security check during the boarding process, it would have been fine by me. However, the impression I received was that Capt. Broderdorf assumed that I was suspicious based solely upon on my ethnicity and accordingly went out of his way to inconvenience and humiliate me in front of an entire aircraft full of passengers. That is where he crossed the line into the realm of unacceptable conduct.

I don't feel that Continental is a racist airline. I do however feel that one Continental pilot did not use his best judgement on this occasion. If this is part of a pattern of racially discriminatory behavior either by this employee alone or by employees in general is for you to investigate and deal with for the sake of your own business and conscience. I realize that some inconveniences are unavoidable while traveling, but the treatment of one of your loyal Elite customers in this shabby manner is a matter that I am sure you cannot condone.


---

Continental's reply :

We have conducted an investigation of the movement of your seat by Captain Broderdorf on the above-referenced flight.

The investigation results do not support your claim of discrimination nor does Continental engage in "racial" profiling. Our investigation reveals a significantly different account than the situation that you describe in your letter of October 23, 2001.

Captain Broderdorf's actions in asking you to move your seat from 5C to 5B (not to row 19 as you state) were taken solely in the interest of security after the 9/11 events as he wanted to place a Continental First Officer in closer proximity to the cockpit. I am also told that you were not forced to move, but asked to move and willingly obliged. I am also told that a gate agent subsequently asked you to take an aisle seat that was empty farther back in the place, to which you also agreed. You ultimately sat in row 19.

While these actions in moving a revenue passenger's seat for the advantage believed to be in the best interests of security by the Captain may not have been properly explained to you, and for that we apologize, none of these actions taken were based on any improper or discriminatory motives.


---

There may be two sides to every story, but my experience dealing with Continental tells me that the two sides will differ on these facts, and personal experience leads me to side with the plaintiff's story as the truer version.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jhooper
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 11:41 am

B747-437B,

Why did the gate agent move you the second time?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 12:13 pm

Jhooper - that is exactly my point. Continental will twist the facts in their version of the story. There was no second movement that I made. I was ordered to move exactly once by Captain Broderdorf, accompanied by a gate agent and a New Jersey State Trooper. I was then told to go to row 19, where the only seat was 19B, a middle seat between two large white guys. Here is the text of my response to them which explains this more clearly.

I appreciate that Continental Airlines took the time and effort to conduct an investigation into the incident aboard flight 1155 of October 16, but am disappointed to note that there were a number of inaccuracies in your account of the situation. These may seem to be trivial points, but I must clarify the true facts for the sake of my own credibility.

I was not requested to move to seat 5B as you have stated, but was specifically told NOT to take that seat and to proceed to the rear of the aircraft instead. Your inference that I “willingly obliged” is also inaccurate. If the relocation was conducted with my complete consent, I would not be wasting my time corresponding with you on this issue.You also fail to address why I was not permitted to take my belongings with me that were stored in the seat pocket. In the event of a consensual relocation, this would not have been an issue. Finally, I was specifically instructed to take a seat in row 19, where the only available seat was 19B, a middle seat. I complied, not wishing to create a scene. Please do not confuse my reluctance to escalate the situation at that time with any perceived condonation of Captain Broderdorf’s actions on my part.

I do not believe that Continental is a racist airline and my interactions with hundreds of other Continental employees reinforce that belief on a daily basis. There is nothing to gain beyond punitive damages if I choose to pursue legal action, and that is not my objective. Accordingly, I have decided to let the matter drop, provided of course that this remains an isolated incident. I am, however, disappointed that Continental wishes to sweep this issue under the rug and adopt a confrontational attitude. You could have earned a lot more goodwill by simply acknowledging that I suffered inconvenience and offering an apology and settlement at that time.



"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
DouglasDC8
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 2:31 pm

Well, there goes the little Misses chances for her promotion!!!
 
geotrash
Posts: 293
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 2:45 pm

The real problem at the core of this issue is whether or not the man should consider himself 'entitled' to anything. Aside from safe travel once en route, he is wrong to expect anything since he had not paid for a fare. Black or white, this man is a jerk. Why can't people just be thankful for what they have? The sense of entitlement is a growing problem in the U.S., and I suspect elsewhere as well.

-Geo
 
ExitRow
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discriminat

Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:15 pm

Aside from safe travel once en route, he is wrong to expect anything since he had not paid for a fare.

Racial discrimination, public humiliation, monetary damage to his personal items and being forced to de-plane for purposes OTHER than being bumped for a full-fare all should be accepted and condoned because he was non-rev?

The real problem at the core is YOU feel entitled to choose who and who cannot be left alone.

Black or white, this man is a jerk.

I am sure he would think the same of you.

Why can't people just be thankful for what they have?

Mr. Dasrath probably IS thankful. But unlike you, probably does not take his freedoms for granted anymore.

The sense of entitlement is a growing problem in the U.S., and I suspect elsewhere as well.

By the looks of some comments regarding this issue, uninformed, arrogant jingoism is an even bigger problem.

 
jmhLUV2fly
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 1999 4:15 pm

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:16 pm

I havnt read through all the replies yet or did I read the article that you provided, but from just reading the initial post; I dont see where this person has a leg to stand on. On AirTran anyways, when you travel nonrev, unless you are traveling on company business, you are traveling standby which we all know means that if the flight is full, they will give the remaining seat to a paying passenger before a nonrev passenger. Now again, I didnt read the article, it may have said that the flight was hardly full and he was pulled off, in that case, he might have a hair of a chance...had he been traveling nonrev on AirTran, he would most likekly have been put on the next flight...I mean common folks you get to travel for free....I wouldnt complain too much....just be glad to have the benefits...but I suppose that is just my opinion.
JMH
 
Krushny
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 8:43 pm

Sean,
nice to see you are back here. Wellcome!!!
 
b757300
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:33 pm

Some of the people on this thread make it sound as if he should have been allowed to stay because he is "non-white". So Continental should have allowed him to stay and bumped a paying passenger off the aircraft just so he wouldn't get his feelings hurt? Please, political correctness is 75% of the reason why 4 United States airliners were used as weapons on Sept. 11th.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
777236ER
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RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:39 pm

political correctness is 75% of the reason why 4 United States airliners were used as weapons on Sept. 11th.

Explain why.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
hmflyer
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2001 9:38 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 10:10 pm

B757300,

It is obvious you did not read the complaint. Those of us with nonrev privileges perfectly understand that we will be removed for a full fare passenger, but that does not seem to be the case here.

Geotrash,

So when travelling nonrev, you can be removed for any reason? If Airtran kicked off someone because of their race, as is alleged CO did, that would be OK? BTW, I think that Mr. Dasrath is entitled to basic respect. If it is found that he was kicked off the airplane because of the color of his skin, that's OK?
 
Braniff727
Posts: 656
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 2:25 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 11:25 pm

Non-revenue travel is a privilege, not a right. That being said, Not being discriminated against is a right, not a privilege.

As a non-revenue passenger, I get a seat based on the policy of the airline (pass code, seniority, dress, etc.). In this instance, there was room on the flight, and he was obviously met the requirements of CO to use the privilege of pass travel as he was not only given a boarding pass by a CO employee, but was also given a F seat.

No where on any pass, or any documentation at any airline will it say that you waive all rights when you pass travel. There will be documentation saying in exchange for the privilege you must follow a certain code of conduct, including dress and such.

Going on the logic that you have no rights, then I can be removed from a flight because I'm gay, or because I'm left handed and someone on the plane doesn't like that. Perhaps a radical feminist is on the plane and hates men, then all men on the flight can be removed, or at least all non-revenue passengers that are men. Perhaps someone that has red hair.

CO is wholely liable in my opinion, and I'm not a sue-crazy American either. For the most part, I think most litigation is unnecessary, however someone's basic right to live his life as an American citizen free of discrimination was taken away by Continental. He was publicly embarrassed because someone had a bigoted opinion, and the Captain, and Gate Agent just went along. They could have at least approached the men individually rather than announcing it for the entire plane to hear.

Yes, you can be denied boarding, and removed from a flight, but there had better be a good reason, or the company is open to major litigation.
Climbing
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Mon Jun 10, 2002 11:29 pm

Non-revenue travel is a privilege, not a right. That being said, Not being discriminated against is a right, not a privilege

Exactly.

All Continental has to do is show a copy of the aircrafts manifest. If all the seats where full, or the airplane was at MTO then he has no case and his wife will probably never get another non-rev ticket again.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discriminat

Tue Jun 11, 2002 1:32 am

And Mr. Dasrath's attorney could use that same manifest to get a list of witnesses of which, if his allegations are true, would probably testify in his behalf concerning the woman with the dog. Not to mention the other two "brown-skinned" passengers.

This case has nothing to do with his non-rev status. CO would be shooting themselves in the foot if they tried to make it look so. Especially after the Captain unprofessionally discussed the situation in full view of the passengers. Which I believe is the true issue here. He was denied is inalienable American rights! Where is the patriotic outrage?!?!

 
Mirabilis
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2001 2:54 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:16 am

Remember, folks, that whether a passenger is a non-revenue passenger or a fully-paying passenger, no airline has any right or privilege to engage in racial discrimination. This issue was fully discussed last week in another thread.

Among other things, 42 USC 1981 is a federal statute that prohibits racial discrimination in the making and enforcement of contracts. In addition to this federal statute, applicable state law will also prevent race-based discrimination by an airline. Even though a non-revenue passenger did not pay a fare for his ticket, a contract of carriage still exists between that passenger and the airline for the purposes of the federal law. Thus, to the extent the facts show that CO discriminated on the basis of race, then the airline violated federal law. That the passenger did not pay a fare for the ticket is irrelevant to the issue of discrimination.

To reiterate a theme posted earlier here, it must come as quite a shock to some people on this forum that an airline is capable of doing anything wrong!  Big grin

--M
 
geotrash
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:25 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:42 am

ExitRow,

"The real problem at the core is YOU feel entitled to choose who and who cannot be left alone."

"Mr. Dasrath probably IS thankful. But unlike you, probably does not take his freedoms for granted anymore."

"By the looks of some comments regarding this issue, uninformed, arrogant jingoism is an even bigger problem."

...And you are passing this judgement about me based on what? Nothing in my post indicated that I feel that way, that I take my freedoms for granted, or that I am a jingoist. Be careful now, you just made a significant accusation here based on very little information. You passed judgement on me in less than 50 words. You lumped me in with a bunch of stereotypes, having never met me. Perhaps you said these things assuming that I am white, and am somehow against all things that aren't white. Now I feel singled out and profiled.

Let's sue the owners of airliners.net because I should expect to be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of my opinions, and regardless of my skin color. Never mind that this service is provided free and that the fair use rules stipulate no accusatory or inflammatory language, and no racially biased remarks. They were obviosly negligent in allowing posts from someone as dangerous as you to be read by all. Now I am the victim!

See what I'm getting at here? See how easy it is to make a decision that can hurt someone else, based on zero solid information? See how wrong it is to hold someone providing a free service, out of the goodness of their hearts, or their desire to make life a little nicer for their employees, to be held accountable for something like that? Same goes for an airline with non-rev pax. The question really is, where do you draw the line?

Did the CO personnel really have malicious intent? I doubt it. They are human too, and are also ENTITLED to a little understanding. For example, it is understanding that makes it possible for someone like me to put up with someone such as yourself.

The truth is, I regret having posted that thread without reading the brief. I also feel bad that racism is such a painful thing for so many people. I am also THANKFUL that as a society, we are learning to put race aside, understanding that a person's race means nothing about the kind of person they are.

Shame on you for rashly passing judgement about me. Shame on me for passing judgement about Michael Dasrath. However, my point still remains. People would do well to be more thankful for what they have, and that entitlement is a national problem. I wonder, what would Mr. Dasrath, you or I be entitled to if the Nazis had won WWII? Or if the Taliban had been better financed? I am THANKFUL that we will never know.

-Geo
 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discriminat

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:10 am

Aside from safe travel once en route, he is wrong to expect anything since he had not paid for a fare. Black or white, this man is a jerk. Why can't people just be thankful for what they have?

"...he is wrong..."

"...this man is a jerk"

How could I have been so prejudicial? (And all that venom from you before you even read the plaintiff's case.) I am responding to your remarks, which has nothing to do with the color of your skin or who you pray to. It is an indication of your perspective, which I disagree with and chose to challenge.

Let's sue the owners of airliners.net because I should expect to be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of my opinions, and regardless of my skin color. Never mind that this service is provided free and that the fair use rules stipulate no accusatory or inflammatory language, and no racially biased remarks. They were obviously negligent in allowing posts from someone as dangerous as you to be read by all. Now I am the victim!

Rhetoric and misdirection. Nice try.

This is an online discussion forum. Your rights were never violated. Your feelings perhaps, but not your rights. I haven't taken anything from you.

Did the CO personnel really have malicious intent? I doubt it. They are human too, and are also ENTITLED to a little understanding.

And if someone inadvertently kills someone by accident but through negligence we should be "understanding" and acquit? No, it's called manslaughter. Or better yet, responsibility, which this particular set of CO staff didn't grasp.

For example, it is understanding that makes it possible for someone like me to put up with someone such as yourself.

Now look who's being Mr. Judgmental. It isn't understanding that makes it possible for "someone like you" to put up with "someone like me." It's called rational debate. Come down off your pedestal or you'll inevitably fall from it.

 
geotrash
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:25 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:13 am

Gotcha goin', didn't I?

 Nuts
 
geotrash
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:25 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:15 am

"And if someone inadvertently kills someone by accident but through negligence we should be "understanding" and acquit? No, it's called manslaughter. Or better yet, responsibility, which this particular set of CO staff didn't grasp."

Rhetoric and misdirection. Nice try.

-Geo
 
sk945
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 6:28 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:17 am

political correctness is 75% of the reason why 4 United States airliners were used as weapons on Sept. 11th. ???

Guess not! It must be 100% poor or non existing airport security!

 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discriminat

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:21 am

No, Geotrash. My analogy was illustrative, yours was deluding.

Pay attention.

(Thanks for the smiley... but it's not disarming in the slightest.)

 
geotrash
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:25 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:27 am

BTW, Look in the dictionary under the term "tongue-in-cheek". The following lines from my post will appear.

Let's sue the owners of airliners.net because I should expect to be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of my opinions, and regardless of my skin color. Never mind that this service is provided free and that the fair use rules stipulate no accusatory or inflammatory language, and no racially biased remarks. They were obviously negligent in allowing posts from someone as dangerous as you to be read by all. Now I am the victim!

Now, if I were a doctor I would prescribe heavy sedatives, followed by a 1998 Cote du Rhone, some classical music and some relaxation tapes. Too bad for you I'm not. You need all of the above.

-Geo
 
ExitRow
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discriminat

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:32 am

Yeah, you're right Geotrash. I should relax. I mean c'mon, it's ONLY civil rights. Sheesh. Where's my chill-pill. (Tongue firmly planted in cheek.)

Let's move on since I am guessing from your last few posts that you're argument is out of gas.

 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: Nonrev Sues Continental For Racial Discrimination

Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:47 am

What about the two other pax remover who were NOT non rev? Their removal clearly shows that this is another example of Continental's discriminatort service. I myself have been discriminated against by Contenental and had my property destroted/permentantly confiscated by an over-zealous gate agent who found my freinds name to be suspicious. His name is Yehuda. When he checked in she ACTUALLY asked him in a snide voice what kind of name it was. He replied it was none-of-her-buisness (it's Hebrew) and all of a sudden I had my camera confiscated and all 3 ppl in ourt party were thoroughly searched. They also tore open the gift wrapping on a book and tore the book cover in the proccess. On the flight home I was talkingf to a FA about my story and she said that stuff happend a lot. She said it as if racial profiling was a bad thing. Then she chimed in.... "they can't tell the difference between a normal name like yours and a real middleastern name." So I guess that if your name rally is middle-eastern then you should be discriminated against. Oh and btw... we are white as snow...

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