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Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:43 am

I noticed that ATA is now using their new 753's exclusively on the Hawaii runs with the exception of PHX-OGG which is 752. Did these airplanes come off the line at Boeing with 180 minute ETOPS ratings, or did ATA have to acquire it? Are all 75's (200s and 300s) in recent and current production certified for 180min ETOPS right out of the plant? Also, I find it interesting that ATA operates a PHX-OGG route but not a PHX-HNL. If anything I would have thought it would be the other way around. Does anybody know why this is? Thanks for any information on these subjects.
 
Guest

RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:07 am

United, American, and I think NW and CO fly the 757 to Hawaii too...not an unusual thing.
 
Rick767
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:13 am

I fly for a UK charter airline, we operate 767s and 757s. Several 757s are ETOPS certified to 180 minutes, but only normally to 138 minutes. In order for the 180 minute rule to be applied the APU must be running from FL250 in the climb until back into the 138 minute coverage area.

Not an issue for our operations, but an interesting fact nonetheless. I wonder if this is still the case for recently "off the line" models like the ones you mention?
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
aq737
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:08 am

When ATA op'd the 1011s to HNL, there was like a 3 or 4x flight PHX-HNL with a 752! I'm not sure about PHX-OGG!

Aq737
 
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United_fan
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:09 am

I flew on UA 757-222 ETOPS (that's what it said by the nose gear door) LAX-Lihue in March '01.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
762er
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:11 am

So what you're saying, Rick767, is that any 757 can be 180min ETOPS if you run the APU from 25,000ft until the 138min range? What is the reasoning behind this? I always hear about how costly it is to ETOPS certify a 757 that wasn't previously certified?
 
neilalp
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:13 am

NWA dosen't fly 757's to Hawaii. Still DC-10-40's soon DC-10-30's i think. Or are they switching to 757's?
 
US A333 PIT
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:18 am

Yes, I'm well aware that many airlines fly their 180min ETOPS 75's to Hawaii and that there was even a HNL-STL nonstop 757. What I'm trying to figure out is how ATA's 753's became 180min ETOPS certified so soon. The fact that they're already flying to Hawaii leads me to believe that they were 180min ETOPS out of the factory. The older UA, NW, CO, AA 75's were not. Their ETOPS took time to earn. None of Delta's 75's are ETOPS. See what I'm getting at here.
 
mlsrar
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:36 am

Northwest has never flown 752s to Hawaii with a passenger flight rule. Northwest has yet to achieve their ETOPS certification, and, are the last of the few major airlines to do so. The biggest push to gain certification is to operate their 330s trans-atlantic routes.

Perhaps with the arrival of the 753, and their ETOPS certification, you may very well see a NW -57 in the islands.

Regarding ATA's PHX-OGG loads...it's a very profitable route for them. The flight originates in MDW, and loses about half of its pax to golf-lovers in PHX. The aircraft then continues on, quite full, to OGG, which has very high yields for them as it has a great arrival time (early!).

I flew the MDW-PHX-OGG direct route twice when ATA was selling their passbooks, which allowed for, essentially, four Y-class roundtrips at the last minute for around 2,400$. $600 for a last-minute ticket to OGG from the midwest is a steal! Unfortunately, they were discontinued on September 21, 2001.

Regards,

Michael
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
artsyman
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:40 am

Continental doesn't fly 757's to Hawaii either, they are strictly 764's at the moment, but before any of you bite my head off, I am aware that there are the odd CO 757 sightings in HNL, But they are not scheduled as these

Jeremy
 
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:42 am

Can we get back to one of the original question please. Are all 75's (200s and 300s) in recent and current production certified for 180min ETOPS right out of the plant?
 
Guest

RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:52 am

CO solely flies 764s to HNL from LAX, EWR, and IAH. NW flies DC-10-30s/40s, 742s, and 744s from LAX, SFO, SEA, and MSP.

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clickhappy
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:12 am

forget the 757, how about those ETOPS 737's  Smile
 
Guest

RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:15 am

Aloha's ETOPS certified 737-200s are used between the Hawaiian Islands and Christmas Island, Midway, and other Pacific Islands, though they are starting to use 737-700s on those routes as well. The 732 ETOPS are also used inter-island in the main Hawaiian islands if needed.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:29 am

Aloha also has a HNL - OAK and on the 15th of June HNL - YVR
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:33 am

one more thing, about ETOPS, isn't ETOPS certification down to maintenance profiles?

This is a pretty good read on ETOPS http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/etops.html
 
calpilot
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RE: Rick?

Tue Jun 11, 2002 12:02 pm

Rick, I have been flying 180min ETOPS for the last 4 years, and I have never heard of running the APU as you stated. Could this be something in your Airline Op. Specs., outside of the ETOPS rules?
 
penguinflies
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:14 pm

So is the question did ATA get 180-minute ETOPS from the start. I would bet that they had to do route proving flights and have maintenance in order before their aircraft were granted ETOPS. Since ATA has 757-200s in the fleet is might not be as hard as HA's transition.

I was checking the schedule and ATA has assigned a 757 to MDW-HNL route. They claim it's non-stop, but there has to be a technical stop for fuel somewhere on the west coast when heading to HNL, the same way TWA did it from STL.
 
Guest

RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:22 pm

757-200 has a range of 4,500 miles.



MDW (41°47'10"N 87°45'09"W) HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) 4252 mi


BTW, when did TWA operate STL-HNL on a 752. I always thought that it was on a 762/763?
 
Rick767
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:04 pm

762er,

No not every 757 is ETOPS approved, it has to be certified in advance. The same applies to the 767.

CALpilot,

That's interesting, perhaps the rule no longer applies. Like I said we no longer fly the 757 on ETOPS routes (I never have in fact) but that is what our Ops manual states. Do your 757s have any extra equipment which would remove this requirement?

Anyway will ask around and see whether the rule still applies.

Rick.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
penguinflies
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RE: Questions On ATA Hawaii Routes And 757 Etops

Wed Jun 12, 2002 9:06 am

TWA Operated the 757 during winter 98/99 STL-LAX-HNL and return the same. In May/June of 1999, they were suppose to upgrade it to the 767, but something happened on the day I took the flight, as I was on a 757 non-stop from HNL-STL. The inbound flight was delayed about an hour in STL for the plane change and another hour in LAX for fuel. It took back a full load including the crabby flight attendants (they seem to be in better moods when they are one their 767 instead of the 757, as I've flown with the same crew three times).