David_itl
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Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:54 pm


Seems that MAN is getting enhanced capacity and frequency according to

"Last year, it carried 420,000 passengers from MAN. Sixty-eight per cent of its Manchester passengers transfer in Germany to Lufthansa flights across the globe, mainly to central and eastern Europe, Asia and South America.

Dieter Grotepass, the airline’s general manager for the UK and Ireland, said Lufthansa plans to increase the size of jet used on Munich flights from a 50-seater to a 70-seater from August.

The airline is looking to increase the jet size on its Stuttgart service and to add a second daily flight."

David/MAN
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:07 pm


A larger plane on the STR run would be nice ! I wonder why British Airways has not yet started a MAN-STR route. I know they were planing it about 2 years ago.

 
David_itl
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:15 pm



Ooops, forgot to do the link properly Embarrassment

It's http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/business/businesstravel/stories/Detail_LinkStory=7310.html

I wouldn't bet on BA starting any new routes out of MAN (except the VCE one in August) for the next 6 to 12 months; they'll want to get used to the RJ100s performance first before increasing capacity on any of the existing ERJ145 routes which would allow redeployment of the ERJ145 onto new routes.

When are LH going to introduce CGN & TXL routes to MAN?

David
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:18 pm


Do you think they would ever start a TXL-MAN route ? Considering they do not even serve LHR from TXL I doubt they open such a route.
 
David_itl
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:35 pm


I didn't know that LHR-TXL on LH doesn't exist! Does this mean all flights to TXL from Britain are operated by BA only?

I'd like them to start that service because at the moment, MAN-Germany routes tend not to have competition:

MAN-DUS & MAN-FRA both BA & LH
MAN-HAJ, MAN-TXL only BA
MAN-HAM, MAN-STR, MAN-MUC only LH

I'm sure that the market would be able to sustain LH operating to TXL (perhaps operating in the morning because the BA flight is in the afternoon?). (Nb That sentence is subject to me double-checking the loads for BA once I am at home).

David
 
dutchjet
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:49 am

Could this have something to do with BMI's long-haul service out of Manchester.......remember both BMI and LH are Star partners and LH owns a piece of BMI.

Although BMI is determined to fly long-haul out of LHR, maybe with the help of LH (and UA), they can develop Manchester into a hub or focus city for the Star Alliance. BMI is already flying out of MAN to UA's hubs in ORD and IAD, and they have 2 A332s with nothing to do at the moment (they are parked). If LH had more flights to "smaller" German cities, and BD opened up new european and transatlantic routes out of MAN, they could have a large operation at MAN. I think that further development of MAN would be a good thing for all concerned, including all of the UK residents who are tired of having to transit London to go just about anywhere when flying with BA.
 
David_itl
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:05 am

Below are the statistics for the MAN services.

left to right: destination, passengers carried, change, average pax current year, average pax previous year



Jan-Feb 2002
FRA 50853 -00.38% 65.79 59.84
DUS 23246 +02.85% 34.39 38.97
MUC 16332 +03.67% 49.37 45.80
HAM 05969 -02.69% 31.25 32.80
HAJ 03193 +25.86% 27.29 28.19
STR 02840 +10.76% 27.74 28.81
TXL 02766 +24.54% 24.48 22.43

Whole of 2001
FRA 338310 +10.98% 64.85 58.76
DUS 156574 -01.83% 38.98 44.01
MUC 105080 +02.92% 51.46 50.61
HAM 042054 +04.02% 36.28 34.32
HAJ 022516 -04.56% 32.30 24.91
TXL 021103 +24.43% 30.54 27.94
STR 020860 +04.17% 31.85 29.54


Source: CAA monthly & annual statistics

LH 59.4% market share MAN-Germany

It would appear that some of the routes are performing "better" than the bland total number of passengers would indicate, and other routes are "worse". NB The average loads aren't a basis to calculate load factors.

David/MAN
 
EGNM-LBA
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:43 am

Interesting that 2/3 of the traffic are interlining pax. Assuming that the proportions are similar by the feeds from MAN into LHR, AMS, CDG, LGW etc, then how many passengers does that represent in terms of interlining pax overall? If its significant, doesn't that suggest there will be a material substitution effect should the aspired growth in long-haul ever come to fruition? e.g as direct services are launched, will passengers simply transfer from MAN-FRA-XXX (or MAN-LHR-XXX or wherever) to choose the dierct MAN-XXX option instead.

The healthy state of the inter-lining market via Germany also bodes well for the prospect of bmir services between LBA-FRA/DUS which I understand are being evaluated as part of the deal struck between LBA and bmi.


 
David_itl
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:01 pm


I would imagine that should any new long-haul service emerge, I would hope to see the transfer traffic utilise it and additional "new" traffic should also be generated. My other (flawed?) thesis would be that should this service be to the same region as an existing one, then both should attract the passengers e.g. the MH service did not impact on the SQ one (though it did appear to impact on the LHR-KUL service in the first few months!)

How long has LBA been after a German link?

David
 
fax
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:05 am

David

in answer to your last question....too bloody long!!

I honestly cannot believe LBA has no direct link to Germany. Leeds is a major financial centre and Bradford has historic and cultural links to Germany.

West Yorkshire as a whole has a very cosmopolitain population and surprising as it may sound there are many German nationals residing here, especially in the medical industry.

Added to that the German's and Austrian's(and decendants) who emigrated here pre and post war and you have a lot of traffic. My gran is German and I have relatives there and I visit 2 or 3 times a year; as well as Spain for the other side of the family...told you we are cosmpolitain in Yorkshire!!

regards Fax
 
SailorOrion
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:30 pm

an average of 51.5 passengers on their flights to MUC is quite amazing since LH flies almost only 50 seaters on that route?!?

SailorOrion
 
David_itl
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:18 pm


The MUC service had the bmi 146s and latterly the Augsburg DHC8-400s, only now do we have the CRJs; the average should come down as they appear to have increased frequency for the summer.

What I find pleasing is the increase in average loads in the FRA service despite the introduction of ERJ145s by BA; LH must have a large market share on this route due to the transiters, with BA picking up the O&D market.

David
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:54 pm

Fax,

An LBA-FRA service has been on the cards for a long time, just no-one ever got around to starting it, it was on the cards when I worked there, and that was 9 years ago. Also Bmi at one time were going to open up LBA-CPH, but never got around to that either, as their priorities changed with the launch of transatlantic services, but it seems now that they are up and running, attention has now turned back to the regional services again with the launch of the LBA-ORK and LBA-BRU services as well as an extra EDI flight.

Bmi has certainly opened up LBA in a big way in the last few years, albeit by taking over other carriers routes, but even so they now only have 2 less destinations directly than EMA !!!.

LBA still has a lot more potential, with such a large catchment area I'm suprised more low cost carriers (only FR to DUB) haven't started operations out of there.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3925
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Fri Jun 14, 2002 2:23 am

David, could you please give the link to the CAA statistic, I would like to check other destination such as BHX-Germany traffic.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
David_itl
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:09 am

Flying-Tiger,

Here's the CAA UK Airport statistics link

The March 2003 statistics are now online - they weren't yesterday!

David
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3925
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:14 am

Thanks a lotfor your help, do you know by chance if Ireland has a similar statistic online?

Best regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
David_itl
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RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:23 am


I don't think they do, but I haven't really checked. I wish the UK statistics had the number of passengers carried by each airline on a route - the best one can do is look at the punctuality statistics where the number of flights by each airline is recorded (plus you get to see which routes aren't individually reported)

David
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Lufthansa Expansion At MAN From August

Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:45 pm

LUFTHANSA'S winter schedule from MAN

Dusseldof
0910 CR1
1400 CR1
1900 CR1

Frankfurt
0830 320
1205 320
1810 320

Hamburg
0815 CR1
2015 CR1

Munich
0700 CR7
1055 CR1
1445 CR7
1700 CR1

Stuttgart
1835 CR1

hope this helps

regards

mike

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