Guest

Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:13 pm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20020612/ap_on_re_eu/attacks_overseas_5

A spokesman for the German Interior Ministry, Rainer Lingenthal, said there was no evidence a specific plot was in the planning stages.
According to the Bild newspaper, a report said terrorists could use heat-seeking ground-to-air missiles or an unmanned drone aircraft carrying explosives to down a jetliner during takeoff or landing.



* * *

Can anything be done to protect an airplane against that kind of dangers?! I don't think so.

 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:36 pm

Hmmm, apart from not selling those missiles to certain countries or rebel groups in the first place, probably not.  Sad
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
racko
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:40 pm

Well, the USA gave Bin Laden the weapons, so they could kill Russians with them. If a plane is attacked with one of these stingers the CIA have blood on their hands.
 
PH-BFA
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 6:22 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:42 pm

It is unlikely that it will hapen from without a civilized country(in my opinion). So if it would happen it is from without Afghanistan or Iraq or so. But it is quite unlikely to shoot an airplane, flying at 10 km, from the ground with an easy surface to air missile.

PH-BFA
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 10:44 pm

Chances are most of the cooling bottles for any US Stingers that where provided to Afganistan are no longer good. They are way way way past their expiration dates.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
wing
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Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:19 pm

During the high times of kurdish terror in Turkey,terrorists fired to a Turkish Airlines A310 after take off with AK 47 assoult rifle.The aircraft took more than 15 bullets to its belly but still managed to fly,it was not even noticed by the crew but the technicians on the arrival airport noticed it.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
cainanuk
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 4:05 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:41 pm

Racko,

You are showing your ignorance with that comment. The stinger missles that were sold to the Mujaheidin rebels almost 20 years ago are long since inoperative. The cooling bottles would no longer work rendering tem no more useful than a paperweight.

As for the inflamitory comment about the US selling the weapons to BinLaden and the CIA having blood on their hands. I'll bet you would love nothing more than to blame the US for all the worlds ills. Where was Germany when the US was fighting the Cold War? Oh thas right!! It was DIVIDED and OCCUPIED by an invading force. Remember East Germany? Remember East Berlin? Remember all those people that risked their lives, and some that were even killed at the Brandenburg Gates trying desperately to taste the freedoms that the US tries so desperately to preserve? Germany and the rest of NATO were totally behind the Mujaheidin during the Soviet invasion af Afghanistan. So dont you DARE try to blame all the worlds problems on America. I have read ENOUGH bashing about my beloved country. The country I served and risked my life for on more than one occasion (Desert Storm, Somalia and Bosnia). You enjoy your freedoms and prosperity because the world has the US to keep it safe at night. Sleep well and you're welcome.
Cainan Cornelius
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:43 pm

>>>Can anything be done to protect an airplane against that kind of dangers?! I don't think so

Actually, something can be done. They're called IR jammers, and they're intended to defeat the IR seekers of any heat-seeking missile.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Philippe Noret



In the above photo of an old AF1, you can see the IR jammer installed on the trailing edge of the engine pylon--it's the cylinder-shaped thing at the top of the pylon that makes the pylon look like the tailfin of a 1958 Cadillac.

IR jammers are installed on hi-value aircraft such as AF1, and the Shuttle carrier aircraft, but their expense makes routine installation on commercial airline aircraft cost-prohibitive.

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:49 pm

Now, which sane terrorist would attack Germany, of all places? Germany and France are the countries which enjoy the widest respect in the Arab world. Part of this, unfortunately, is caused by our Nazi past. I remember talking to a (middle aged) Egyptian who said he loved Germany so much "because of what you did to those Jews"  Sad

Daniel Smile
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:13 am

A comment like that, shows how unintelligent some of these people are. Do they think the Nazis would not have killed arabs, if they were around?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
PHXinterrupted
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RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:01 am

Racko, you are an idiot!
Keepin' it real.
 
TCA256
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:10 am

Dear all,

Terrorists don't have to shoot down an aircraft to reach their goals, the tragedy in NYC happened but they still have thousands of possibilities to harm our societies: How ? Just think about the subway in Paris a few years ago when gas tubes were used to kill people or like in Israel, sucide bombers exploding themselves in a restaurant! If Mr Ben Laden is alive and succeeds to hit once again American, the threat won't come from the sky, they are
unfortunately too clever to highjack again an aircraft....Against terrorism, there's no solution except solving the problem at its roots (some countries under threats should realize it instead of wasting their time)!

 
747Cargo
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 12:35 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:14 am

I totally agree with you Tca256
 
UPS Pilot
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

Admin. Please Delete This Thread!

Fri Jun 14, 2002 2:24 am

This could get out of hand with the likes of Racko
 
Udo
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

Calm Down!

Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:07 am

Come on people, stop treating Racko like a terrorist. Of course no Stingers from Afghanistan would be used for an attack today. So the direct connection to the CIA would not be the case.

But before calling Racko an ignorant, please calm down and think about what the CIA has done in that world so far...if you look around in Asia, South America or Africa. The CIA HAS civilian blood on its fingers, if you like it or not. And to mention and critizice that fact does not mean that anybody dislikes the USA. Especially we here in Germany will never forget what the US has done for us.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:13 am

Aren't all El Al aircraft equipped with flares and chaff to deter any missiles? Trust me, the CIA knows everything that will happen within the next few years concerning terrorism. They know the dates, times, everything. Do you know that on the morning of 9/11, all CIA top officers didn't come to work? They knew what was going to happen. They just choose not to tell the US public about it.
 
Udo
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:19 am

Flight Level,

If that is true, then the CIA should be rated as a criminal organisation...
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:03 am

Udo, the CIA should then. The CIA does a lot for America, it also does its fare share against it.
 
hawkeye2
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:24 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:10 am

Yes, all EL AL airliners are equipped with anti-missile defenses.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:16 am

FlightLevel, The remark about the CIA knowing about the exact time and place of the attacks is ridiculous and beyond cynical. The other comparable, equally asinine rumor spread (mostly through the Middle East) is that all the Jewish people did not show up to work at the WTC. Do you also believe that?
 
Arsenal@LHR
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:53 am

On a slightly different topic, is it true that Air Force One has escape pods in it?

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:10 am

If El Al a/c are equipped with anti-missile devices, then they are a lot less visible than those on even more likely targets. I have my doubts.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
yago
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:28 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:22 am

I think we should avoid discussing politics or how great is the USA or how bad is the CIA. Everybody is entitled to his/her opinion but let's talk about planes, please....

Yago
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:46 am

Arsenal@LHR, it was in the movie, but I don't know. It might be purely fiction.
 
racko
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RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:46 am

I don't know how long you can use Stingers, and it isn't really important. The CIA supported criminal and terrorist organizations, that's a fact.

And what really pisses me off, is this stupid dividing the world into good and bad, black and white. I made a critical about the USA, and now I'm a bad anti-american terrorist ? I have not forgotten about the cold war, I have not forgotten what the USA did for Germany. Still, I criticize the behaviour of the CIA, as I sometimes criticize the German government or as I criticize good friends.

Racko, now member of the axis-of-evil?
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:49 am

Racko, I agree with you 100%.
 
Thumper
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RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:05 am

Racko cut the crap and just admit you are Anti-American, all your posts prove it !
 
airtahitinui
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 4:39 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:37 am

The idea that America, or the CIA for that matter, is committed to evil is obviously ridiculous. If you want to talk conspiracy theory there are plenty of other sites you can go to.

However, I do believe the idea that planes can be brought down by surface to air missiles is a plausible one. Such weapons are relatively cheap, easy to use, transportable, accessable and accurate. Why wouldn't they be used? The fear inflicted as a result of their use would be great - they're perfect terror weapons.

After everything we've seen (9/11, suicide bombings etc..) anything goes - its now a grim cliche. It's no secret that commercial airplanes are among if the favorite target of these types of terrorists. How anyone can discount a plausible terror plot against US interests is beyond me.
send a real message - DON'T VOTE!
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:30 pm

Thumper,

since I agree with Racko, I'm anti-American now too? My best friend is from the US, my best time was in the US, I loved what the US stood for - but I don't like what the US has become - and what the US is doing at the moment. Telling European countries (just as you are telling us), that if you don't support the USA 100%, you're against the USA, and making up plans to invade Netherlands - my friends - something is very much wrong in the USA that I've known and loved.

dcy.
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:32 pm

Dcy, I was looking for those words all day! Very well put! I agree with you 100%.
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:33 pm

One more thing ...

... have there been any significant improvements in the surface-to-air missile area? Since I remember clearly that in 1996 the FBI stated that an airliner could not be shot down by a surface-to-air missile (maybe a white 747-100 with a red stripe and TWA written on the fuselage).

dcy.
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

How Would You Feel?

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:38 pm

I've had it!!!!

How many of you watched the last breath of a friend trying to feed starving people in Africa????

I have!!!

How many of you lost a parent or a brother because some third world South East Asian country asked us to help support them???

I have!!!!


Racko if you would look at history, my beloved country the United States of America, use to mind it's own business. We use to let others kill themselves off. A perfect example would be you very own country of Germany. We stood back and watched for years until you threatend our well being.

We watched a small country of Japan destroy most of our Pacific Fleet in a matter of hours on our homeland. After that everything changed for my country. We had no choice but to fight and protect our country but more important our way of life.

After that we saw another country change and then start taking over smaller countries which again threatened the way us and our friends wanted to live. Your country was divided in two. We had nuclear missiles aimed at us just couple of hundred miles from our coast. We had Korea and Vietnam being divided and forced into adopting a different way of life. If you didn't believe in communism you were killed or jailed until you were reformed. Afghanistan, the same thing. We gave what the people wanted us to give then they shoved it right up our asses. Kuwait, again they asked for us to help. We gave it. Now when we need the help the Kuwaiti people don't want us there. The Saudi's who were our allies and we helped defend don't want us there. That every one of the people who hijacked the 3 airliners on 9/11/01 was of Saudi origin, the Saudi people won't assist us. The very same people we helped defend in Afghanistan helped blow up our embassies, our ships, and 3,000 innocent people just because. Are they jealous of our freedoms? Our they jealous they can't control us? What is it.

I will say that we have made mistakes and history has proven that. The main mistake was trusting a so called friend just to have them stick it right up our asses!!!

I don't know why I'm trying to explain this because you will never understand.
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:59 pm

I think you have solved the puzzle by yourself -

- every time the US involve themselves in a conflict somewhere they will win a friend and an enemy, when the conflict ends.

- unfortunately (as we all know) friends tend to forget what you have done for them (well, not all of them, but most of them) - yet an enemy will stay your enemy and will look and find a way to retaliate.

But you also need to accept the fact, that the US does not rule the world - and even worse - USA will only engage in a conflict if it sees a strategic gain from it. My country was invaded by the Yugoslav Army in 1991 and noone cared - were you there with me sitting in the air shelter listening to rockets detonating in your home town? Were you with me when I did not know whether my cousin who was defending our borders was dead or alive? How much of your family did you lose in the 2nd world war? See? Not only the US is a victim. Let's look at the Yugoslav conflict - in 1991, noone helped. In late 1991 Croatia was occupied by the Yugoslav Army - noone helped. In 1992 Bosnia was occupied - noone helped ... in the late 1990s the Arab countries started sending mujaheed fighters into Bosnia to help the Bosnian Muslim population defend themselves - there we go ... the world suddenly jumps up. Why? Because they don't want to see another Mujaheed safehaven in Europe.

But let's stop the s**t throwing session. ANY war is bad - no war ever produced anything good, and it never will. I think every person in what was once Yugoslavia agrees that the war hasn't brought anyone anything good - WAR is stupid, and violence really only gives birth to more violence (look at the Vendetta).

Oh. And we will never understand? I agree. I will never understand how a person can claim, that there is only one aspect of any conflict - there are as many aspects of a conflict as there are parties involved in it ... the universal truth does not exist.

dcy.

[and sorry that I've written this into an aviation forum]
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 2:01 pm

Tca256 deserves respect for this comment:

Against terrorism, there's no solution except solving the problem at its roots (some countries under threats should realize it instead of wasting their time)!

I more or less agree with the original post: there is nothing that can easily be done to protect aircraft from terrorism. Besides that, there are plenty of other targets and always will be as long as we want to live in a free world. Therefore, the solution is as Tca256 says - the solution is to look at solving the problem. What makes the people so angry that they want to employ terrorism? What makes the financiers of terrorism sympathetic to their cause?

Racko is right in general, even if not in specifics. Even if the stingers can no longer be used, it is a fact that the earlier American support of OBL and later its tolerance of his protection by Saudi Arabia have allowed him to continue to operate. There is nothing shameful in admitting this: Reagan and others were doing what they thought best at the time, it turned out to be a mistake.

Its better just to admit it (American mistakes) and deal with it as opposed to pretending that America never makes mistakes and suggesting that victories in WWII and the Cold War are justification for everything the USA does. America's triumphs don't erase its failures, success does not immunize the country from mistakes - nor criticism. America makes many mistakes, it is after all run by human beings - those who point out its errors are not always the enemies of America but can in fact be its closest friends.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:48 pm

Actually, something can be done. They're called IR jammers, and they're intended to defeat the IR seekers of any heat-seeking missile.

- Are these systems efficient when a plane is landing/taking off and could possibly be reached without heat-seeking missiles??


* * *


Yes, all EL AL airliners are equipped with anti-missile defenses.

- I doubt it; how long and complicated is it to install that kind of defense on a plane? LY is often leasing foreign planes for short periods of time.
 
TCA256
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:40 pm

Hi Roguetrader,

Thanks for your kind words....Your post completes very well my opinion!  Big grin

Dear all,

"all EL AL airliners are equipped with anti-missile defenses"

I'm nearly 100% sure EL AL doesn't have anti-missile pods on its aircrafts,
why would they use them ? the company only flies over "friendly" countries
and as Toda already stated, the cost of such equipment on the entire fleet
would cost a lot of cash! I know we're in a civil aviation forum but let's not
forget the threat isn't focused on aircrafts, such opinion helps the terrorists
who are certainly and unfortunately preparing plots in unexpected fields...Just
an exemple, today a bomb exploded in front of the US Consulate in Karachi,
Pakistan...8 people have been killed....the bomb wasn't in an aircraft!!!!

 
LMP737
Posts: 4810
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:47 pm

Racko:

Usually I stay out of these political discussions.

Since you speak of criminal activity of the CIA may I also mention German complicity in Iraq's chemical weapons program. The same program that killed thousands of Kurds.

That is why I usually stay out of the political discussions. People start going back and forth with "Well you know....."

Point: Every country has skeletons in it's closet, some more so than others.

Peace
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:05 pm


The effectiveness of various kinds of jammers on commercial (or other, for that matter) aircraft depends on what kinds of homing systems the missile uses, and their software.

I seriously doubt if missile countermeasures on widebody jets would have any significant likelihood to succeed against a modern anti-aircraft missile. Whereas I don't know for certain, I'd assume the days of "IR" missiles are over, and the missiles combine two or more different kinds of homing methods such as video, multiband radar etc.

So whereas the jammers, flares etc. on El Al planes and AF1 may have been useful in their days, I'd be surprised if this was still the case. A 747 is an awfully big target and not easy to lose track of. Even if a missile used only infra-red, the software used today would be so sophisticated that a hit should be likely even in case of countermeasures.

On another and slightly off-topic note, how can planes tell if an IR seeking missile is coming at them? Those ostensibly don't emit anything, so how does El Al know when to drop the flares?

 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

Dcy?

Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:08 pm

"My country was invaded by the Yugoslav Army in 1991 and noone cared - were you there with me sitting in the air shelter listening to rockets detonating in your home town? Were you with me when I did not know whether my cousin who was defending our borders was dead or alive? How much of your family did you lose in the 2nd world war? See? Not only the US is a victim. Let's look at the Yugoslav conflict - in 1991, noone helped. In late 1991 Croatia was occupied by the Yugoslav Army - noone helped. In 1992 Bosnia was occupied - noone helped ... in the late 1990s the Arab countries started sending mujaheed fighters into Bosnia to help the Bosnian Muslim population defend themselves - there we go ... the world suddenly jumps up. Why? Because they don't want to see another Mujaheed safehaven in Europe."

"no one cared" ?

U.S was there and they are still there. Your welcome.

"But you also need to accept the fact, that the US does not rule the world"

I never accepted the fact because I have never felt that way. What you don't seem to understand is a lot of the time one of our so called allies ask us for assistance. I'm sure you have helped friends in need. You say no one cares well I have cared, My fellow countryman have cared in everyone of the countries you mentioned in your post we have sent troops and aid in to help your fellow countrymen. When we get attacked then the same people say we got what was coming to us. Please give me a break.

To make this aviation related a F-117 stealth fighter was shot down in Bosnia but you said no one cared. AF1 does not have an escape pod either.



 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:13 pm

LMP737, what a bull: if Germans delivered help for Saddam's weapon programs then they were criminals and were not sent officially by the German government. In contrast to the CIA's actions...


Regards
Udo


P.S.: I hope Racko is not rated as a top terrorist now and already on the list of upcoming bombings...
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
TCA256
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:25 pm

Guys,

There's no need to debate USA, Germany or the Martians are imperialists or have blood on their hands! Which country in the world is enough clean to point the finger to an other ? Some criticized USA for some of its international policies, fine, but let's don't forget our own governments were not better! If the CIA was involved in the coup in Chile for example, the European governments were not better while supporting bloody and corrupted African leaders in order to preserve their interests in the former colonies!

This all is out of topic and can only lead us to a pointless debate!

I totally agree with LMP737...let's go back to "pure" aviation issues!

 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:31 pm

Udo, I'm already feeling the little laser marking on my body  Smile Maybe the USAF sends a stealth bomber for me while they are invading the Netherlands...  Innocent

Again : I criticized an action of the CIA. I did not say that the USA are guilty for all faults on this planet.

As Udo already mentioned, the CIA is a government organization, they did it with the money of the american taxpayers.



 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Fri Jun 14, 2002 9:10 pm

UPS Pilot?

[nah forget it, wanted to post and decided to erase it all instead].

Good luck - you're the samaritans of this world and forgive me for living in your world.

dcy.

[I'm off to beg for food and protection in front of the US embassy. Later!]

PS: The F117 was shot down over Serbia - and as far as the stories go, it was shot down using Russian militar technology - anyone have more on that?
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Sat Jun 15, 2002 12:04 am

How do i become a moderator?

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
LMP737
Posts: 4810
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:18 am

UDO:

You failed to get my point. The point I was trying to make is that every country has skeletons in it's closet. Some more so than others. It was not an attack on Racko.

This is why I usually stay out of the political discussions. It turns into a tennis match. Guess you could say that this was the other point I was trying to make.

For example I could say that the German Government was just as guilty because they failed in their oversight of these company's. Or that European companies had no qualms in doing business in various countries with less than perfect human rights records. In addition, their governments must not have been bothered by it since they allowed it to happen.

Now I suspect you will come back at me with some sin committed by my country.

See what I mean.

Peace

Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Squigee
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:37 am

America in a nutshell:

29% tariffs on softwood lumber from Canada because the Canadian government is "subsidizing them" (NAFTA, WTO, and many 3rd parties disagree with the US on that)

meanwhile, the US approves the biggest subsidy ever for their farmers.


God Bless America.
Someday, we'll look back at this, laugh nervously, and then change the subject.
 
Guest

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:51 am

Mmmmh the topic seems to be lost...

Could someone please answer my questions:

"Actually, something can be done. They're called IR jammers, and they're intended to defeat the IR seekers of any heat-seeking missile."

- Are these systems efficient when a plane is landing/taking off and could possibly be reached without heat-seeking missiles??


* * *


"Yes, all EL AL airliners are equipped with anti-missile defenses."

- I doubt it; how long and complicated is it to install that kind of defense on a plane? LY is often leasing foreign planes for short periods of time.
 
H. Simpson
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 7:30 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Sat Jun 15, 2002 4:05 am

me too, I doubted whether EL AL really has missle jammer on them. But who knows!? Just by looking at the security screening you can tel paranoia on every passenger.

ok, back to the original topic, CIA definitely knows every thing about the Al Qaida, they have made numerous announcements on "Possible Terror Attacks", but remember, this is just a "possiblity" It may happen tomorrow or next 1000 years...

trust me, CIA knows everything

mike
 
seven_fifty7
Posts: 900
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Possible Al-qaida Plot To Shoot Down Airliners

Sat Jun 15, 2002 4:09 am

Wow. I can't believe how i agree 200% with RogueTrader's post. The U.S. government has made many mistakes in the past and is not without flaws stemming from self-serving actions. The misguided actions of the CIA and Reagan's support of Contras and arming the Mujahadeen to fight against the Soviets do not negate the good that the U.S. has done. The CIA is but one aspect of the vast U.S. government.

People on this board need to learn to be more objective and understand that the world isn't strictly black or white. Some things are propaganda. Some things are political. Some things are economic. And some things are just stupid.

Blind patriotism is for idiots. This is regardless of where you're from.
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

DCY And Others

Sat Jun 15, 2002 8:29 am

No need to beg for food in front of the U.S. Embassy. Just go down the street to Mc Donalds and get a happy meal.  Smile

I'm not mad at you nor will I put you down. I respect what you have said. I just get very upset when people put down my country. When people have no respect for the people from my country who have died trying to help them. I haven't met a perfect person yet and there is no perfect country either.

During the Cold War my company (UPS) sent a loaded 747 to Moscow after a major earthquake had hit the Soviet Union. Gorby was in the US for a summit meeting with Reagan. Our 747 stuffed with relief supplies was sitting on the tarmac in Moscow before Gorby got back to see the devastation. Was this Political for the US government? You bet!!! Was it to help a PERSON in need on my part. You bet!!!!

We are not all bad. Never judge a book by it's cover.

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