ContinentalEWR
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Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:03 am

Delta's economy class to Europe stinks! I just returned from a five day trip to Italy and flew Delta using mileage that I had and was going to expire. I would have taken Continental from Newark to Rome had I needed to pay for the tix.
The plane was a 767-300ER. Delta JFK-FCO-JFK. The livery was Delta-flot on
the outbound and the c. 1997 new Delta livery on the return. The plane was clean on the inside and out and well maintained. However, the service was really very basic. Food was borderline disgusting and skimpy. The seats were hard and had standard pitch and legroom. The crew were friendly enough. I am not one who believes that PTV's are a necessity, but if you look at most of the US carriers flying to Europe, virtually all of them, except for NW have some attractive feature:

American (MRTC on all aircraft and PTV's in the 777's)
United (Economy Plus and PTV's on 767-300ER and 777 aircraft and decent food)
Continental (PTV's on all 767-200ER's/400's and 777's and 777 interiors on all three jets)
US Airways (PTV's on A330's)

Delta has nothing. It's coach product is little changed from the 1970's. I know the post 9/11 environment had decimated airline finances, but honestly, Delta needs to try and attract customers with a better product in steerage. BizElite is outstanding, but Delta Economy sucks.

ContinentalEWR
 
B747-437B
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:08 am

Delta has PTVs on the 777s in coach.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
airplanetire
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:52 pm

I can and can't agree with you. The product could use some work on the 763s and especially on the MD-11s. I flew the MD-11s internationally from ATL to BRU and back and they were terrible. Just yesterday though, I flew a Delta 777 in Y from CDG to ATL and it was one of the best flights of my life. The legroom was good for coach, the seat comfy, there was a headrest, the PTV was nice, the entertainment good, and the food good. It was one of the best flights of my life!
 
wilcharl
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:02 pm

see i have to argue that DL is doing a good job... though I prefer flying foreign carriers ive had recently good service crossing the pond on DL on the 777, MD-11 and 767 all three were very confortable flights, the outbound meals were always lagging but the return meals were always better. I do have to say the food was better on united but the service was great, the aircraft was clean, ptv's aren required, the 767 is great becaue its not like your as crammed in as the 777 or the MD-11 the delta horizons is good and the music selection is good...
 
swaluvfa
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:09 pm

I really have to disagree about Delta's economy being terrible. I just got in yesterday from Bermuda and had a really good experience flying Delta. My MCO-ATL and ATL-MCO legs were both on the new 767-400 which was really nice, they offered a full beverage service on a one hour flight, and they showed entertainment (Friends!!) The flights from ATL-BDA and BDA-ATL were on 767-300s and both legs they gave out a great Snack and again showed a longer Delta entertainment video. I had read posts before about people complaining about Delta's service and I don't fly Delta very much and have not flown them in a LONG time until just recently, and I really didn't think they were bad at all! I worked for United for 6 months until 9/11 and I think Delta's was not much different then what we use to do at UAL.
 
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OA412
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:20 pm

However, the service was really very basic. Food was borderline disgusting and skimpy.

Oh please! This is a complaint lobbed against almost every airline's food offering in Economy and is not in any way, shape, or form limited just to DL.

The seats were hard and had standard pitch and legroom.

Legroom of US carriers:
DL: 31-33"
NW: 31"
CO: 31-32"
UA E+: 36"
UA E-: 31-32"
US: A330 (33-34") 767 (31")
AA: 34-36"

Therefore, aside from AA, UA E+, and US A330s all other US carriers offering transatlantic service offer a seat-pitch identical to DLs. And, word from AA itself is that MRTC is under serious review and may be replaced. Why then should DL be singled out as having standard pitch?


Delta has nothing. It's coach product is little changed from the 1970's.

Again, this is a baseless and ridiculous statement. As Sean mentioned, DL has PTVs in its 777s. Furthermore, I refuse to believe that DLs coach product has remained little changed from the 70s. The fact is, all carriers have cut back on their coach service post-9/11 not just DL. My God, CO just announced that it will become the *ONLY* non-charter airline flying across the Atlantic to charge for alcoholic drinks. At least, drinks are still free on DL.

Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
exusair
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 5:15 am

How much did you pay for your tickets again?

You didn't bring any of that fabulous Italian food onboard for your own enjoyment?

Bitch and moan all you want. In todays fare environment, any changes or service enhancements are on the back burner until fares rise to the breakeven level.
 
McRingRing
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 5:25 am

It's the old "airlines can do no wrong" contingent, aka the "you are not entitled to your opinion" contingent. I knew it wouldn't be too long until they dropped by. Good to see you guys, but you're so predictable.
B==============) ~~~~
 
GD727
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 5:59 am

This is bull. Delta's economy is not only perfectly acceptable, but is among the best in the USA IMO. The seats aren't super comfortable, but perfectly acceptable and no worse than any other US carrier. The only airlines that have more legroom then DL are AA's MRTC and United's E+, other than that, everyone has the same amount of legroom as Delta. I found Delta's 763 very comfortable. Who cares about PTV's? Sure, they're a nice little convienece, but old fashioned IFE is just fine. Also, about food, airline food in the USA hasn't been good on any airline since the mid 70's, go to http://www.airlinemeals.net and look at United's food, Delta's food looks like deluxe cuisine compared to some of United's food!

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
ratrap2001
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:37 am

What is MRTC?Im sry but i dont know
 
dutchjet
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:48 am

Lots of valid points above.......I just think that there is a general feeling that Economy Class service has become a bit too basic especially on long-haul flights. I do not think that DL is better or worse than any of the others in economy class, but over the years the overall level of service on most airlines has become a bit disappointing. PTVs are the current rage and we now tend to feel cheated if we do not get one on a specific flight, understandable, and in time more and more aircraft will be so equipped. Until then, some upgrade in the food service and a bit more room in coach, I think, would be greatly appreciated by the flying public.
 
Admiral Ackbar
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:56 am

MRTC= More Room Throughout Coach on American Airlines.
 
seven_fifty7
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 10:00 am

Delta's food looks like deluxe cuisine compared to some of United's food!


Wrong. Skip the photos on that website you referred to and try flying AND eating on UA. I thought everyone knew that UA usually serves the best food on their long haul flights (credit to Gate Gourmet?).

But, I guess those who prefer to pick up their bagged lunches on the jetbridge next to the plane probably would hold a grudge against carriers that refuse to do anything so low fare-ish.

That aside, McRingring hit the nail on the head. --I knew it wouldn't take long for the Delta cheerleaders to come running to their team's defense. Just as Mcringring put it:


Soooooo predictable.



Give me either UA or AA anyday. (Hey that rhymed! LOL)
 
GD727
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RE: SEVEN_FIFTY7

Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:33 am


Actually, not all Delta flights involve picking bagged meals in the jetway, that is only offered on domestic flights. In fact, AA does the same thing for domestic flights, they call it "Bistro" service  Yeah sure. On International flights, Delta also uses Gategourmet. Predictable? Why? I'm just defending the airline I know and love.

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 12:34 pm

I don't seem to have a problem with Delta, and I fly enough to be gold medallion. On a recent flight between the US and Paris, AF one way and DL back, both 777's, Delta was by far better. The DL meal was better, service was much better (frequent servings of drinks between meals, for example), and the AF cabin was hot and stuffy and despite many complaints from many pax, remained unchanged.

The F/A's on AF are only one small step better than the waiters in Paris.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 12:35 pm

"Delta needs to try and attract customers with a better product in steerage."

Have you seen DL's loads to Europe this summer? Nearly all flights booked to capacity. Apparently, they're not having too much difficulty attracting customers.

 
777-200
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:09 pm

My question is, why is this Discussed almost weekly?  Insane
Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
 
euroschu
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:32 pm

Bottom line is you are a freebie flying in coach. Trade in a few more miles and fly Business Elite. From all your posts, I would have assumed you flew enough to afford the extra miles. Maybe you don't fly as much as you claim. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

BTW, CO's economy product overseas is basic at best. BusinessFirst is average.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:34 pm

Personally, I find having your meal handed to you at the gate is demeaning.
I'd much rather have it handed out inflight. I just know the day is coming where you'll hear this announcement "And thank you for flying with XX airlines today, please take your boxed meal off the aircraft and deposit it in the dumpster just outside the jetway".
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
ILUV767
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:58 pm

Keep in mind that Delta Air Lines serves the most major cities in Europe from the United States. That alone is a selling point for Delta.

I L U V 7 6 7
 
flashmeister
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 10:27 pm

I recently flew ATL-SNN-DUB-ATL on Delta, economy on the way out and BusinessElite on the way back. I have to say that I was impressed with Economy on the way out there. Seats were fairly comfortable, there was plenty to watch on the PTVs, the FAs were very attentive, the food was pretty good, and I got a pretty good night's rest.

Of course, BusinessElite on the way back was incredibly comfortable... every creature comfort that one could want.

My only question for DL is this: In BizElite, you offer video games to pax over the PTVs. You're equipped for this in economy. Other carriers (SQ, I know for sure), offer games in Economy. If the equipment is there, and you can do it, why not turn it on? No one upgrades to BizElite so they can play Tetris...
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Delta Needs A Better Int'l Economy Product

Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:37 pm

Type-rated..... I had to smile when I read your post.....Delta has already fixed the problem of handing out meals at the gate....the flights that used to have that feature (called the Sky-Deli) no longer offer any food at all, and the Sky-Deli seems to have been phased out altogether, so you will not be demeaned!  Smile

Now, they sometimes announce prior to boarding that there is no food in coach, and anyone desiring to eat onboard is encouraged to "avail themselves of the services of one of the fine concessions located in the terminal prior to boarding"

How's that? I see great business opportunities here for "boxed meal" concessions to roam the gates just prior to departing flights to sell meals. This would offer pax lots of choices and keep them happy in flight. And the $5 - 10 cost would be small potatoes compared to the price of tickets.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"