SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 2:16 am

Virgin Atlantic Airways is lobbying the British Labour Government to help it win rights to fly from Hong Kong to Sydney, Australia when the UK and Hong Kong meet for Open Skies talks later this year.

Winning the rights to fly from HKG to SYD would mean that VS would break the dominance of 1world on the Kangaroo route via HKG Chep Lap Kok.

Virgin Blue would also obviously benefit from more potential revenue from €urope.

Barry Humphreys, director of external affairs and route development for VS, said it is still too early to determine when the new service will commence. British Airways can only service Australia from HKG by codesharing with CX and QF. QF uses BKK and Singapore Changi Airport as it's hubs.

Mr. Humphreys thinks that the HK Government would allow the 5th Freedom Rights as there is decreased competition along the HKG - Australia route. "In the past we asked to be allowed to code-share with Ansett through Hong Kong. But now that Ansett is no longer, we have to find another way to operate [those services]," he said.

New Zealand also has recently signed a new Open Skies deal with Hong Kong, "New Zealand got a very favourable agreement, so the situation is liberalising . . . We are hopeful for the opportunity."

Virgin Atlantic has 5th Freedom Rights through Singapore (shame the Labour Government can't reciprocate), but there would be an overlap with Singapore Airlines, "Singapore Airlines already goes . . . between Sydney and London, so what would we add to them by operating the same route?" Mr Humphreys said.

Singapore Airlines Limited owns 49% of Virgin Atlantic Airways Limited as the article states.

The full article can be read from the South China Morning Post via Aeroworld.net
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:36 am

shame the Labour Government can't reciprocate

Give it a rest- why the Hell should an airline from a tiny island in a whole other continent be given the rights to fly LHR-USA when some UK and US airlines are denied the right?!
_________

Now, back on topic-
There are of course a lot of people travelling between London and Oz, but with so much competition on the route (BA, QF, MH, SQ, CX, EK, CI, BI, OS etc offering flights via their hubs) is there enough room for another operator?
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 5:41 am

Englandair! I'm shocked! Alternatively, why should SIN give BAQF rights when they don't get LHR rights?

(I am a sort of psychologist) - That's not the point, BAQF benefits loads from their SIN hub, it's the honorable thing to do (and I'm a member of the Labour party).

Anyway, yes there is always enough room. Only CX and BA have flights to HKG and on to SYD so on that particularly routing, yes.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 6:47 am

Oh come on! How can you possibly compare SIN to LHR!
For a start it's BD's home base and even they're not allowed US flights from there, so why should UK jobs be put at risk/ not be made, just because some Asian city gave ONE of our carriers 5th freedom from their airport.
BA isn't the UK's national airline, so the UK owes Singapore nothing with regards to 5th freedom....

(no hard feelings by the way)
 Big grin Big grin Big grin
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 6:59 am

Englandair: BA might not be the UK's national airline but if you take out how important Singapore is as a hub to BA, then I think that BA would lose quite a significant amount of money and would not be impressed.

The UK jobless rate is at it's lowest since ages under the Labour government so some flights will hardly make many more jobs.

Calling Singapore a city and a small country is besides the point. Once again, I doubt that BA would be best pleased if the small country / city withdrew it's 5th freedom rights.

And anyway, wouldn't UK jobs be created if SIA was allowed more flights?

(no hard feelings by the way)
:D Big grin Big grin
(I do mean that!  Big thumbs up)
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:09 am

(and I'm a member of the Labour party)

Followed by:

The UK jobless rate is at it's lowest since ages under the Labour government so some flights will hardly make many more jobs.

Hehehe if it's not SQ you're promoting, it's something else  Wink/being sarcastic
______________________________

Any way, if BD (instead of SQ) were allowed UK-US rights from LHR then a lot more jobs would be created. SQ would only fly to a couple of US destinations but BD would serve East and West coasts and a lot in between! Transfer passengers from the rest of the country and Europe would also bring in a lot more business from BD, again creating more jobs.

For once this government should put its' own people 1st....

Regards!

ps. Calling Singapore a city and a small country is besides the point

Singapore is a city in a small country Big grin
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:21 am

The UK jobless rate is at it's lowest since ages under the Labour government so some flights will hardly make many more jobs.
Happens to coincide with a changing of how the jobless rate is calculated.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:40 am

Back to aviation........I find it strange that Virgin would fly the LHR-Australia route via Hong Kong or another city in the Far East because of Singapore Airlines ownership interest in Virgin. SQ carriers a lot of pax from London to Australia via Singapore, wouldn't this proposed new service by Virgin put them in competition with themselves? I thought that the idea was that Virgin would concentrate on services out of London that SQ could not operate themselves......transatlantic, africa, india, mideast, etc.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:45 am

VS and SQ aren't exactly on the best of terms.Flying down under might also bugger VS aircraft scheduling?
 
aussiestu
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:32 pm

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 10:20 am

Great news for us non revs trying to get to Oz with another carrier offering service. VS has been saying for years that they want to open a route to Oz and never have so i truelly do not expect this to happen soon if at all. I think SQ will have a serious comment on this as it may take passengers away from them, no matter whether its thru SIN or HKG. As for the comments re: SQ getting rights to serve US and BA having the rights to serve Oz thru SIN. If these rights were withdrawn from BA i am sure they would just switch to another asian airport and you can bet that QF would be right behind them. A bigger lose to SIN airport than we imagine. Isnt KUL trying to get more traffic? I am sure that if SQ kicked off about flying to the US thru LHR BA would switch to another airport to operate to Oz without even a moments notice and QF would be right there with them. Who would lose the most.........? Come on VS get that service started!
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:16 pm

Was in Singapore the other day and was thinking about this very issue. Have to say I was quite impressed with BA's World Traveller Plus. I'm 6'7" and could fit in the seat!

I used to think that SQ should have the rights to fly LHR - JFK or wherever in the USA. However, my thinking has changed. I will bet that far more of the pax on an SQ LHR - USA flight would be point-to-point than on BA's SIN-SYD. Yes, a fair few on BA's flights probably connect in SIN off of other QF flights from HKG, CDG, BKK, FCO etc. but there are probably not that many point-to-point passengers making use of BA's fifth freedom rights between SIN and SYD. Also, I would think that in an optimal environment, LHR - JFK is more profitable than SIN - SYD. Just my thoughts - purely speculative.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:58 pm

Dutchjet and others: I don't think that the new VS service will take passengers away from Singapore Airlines. They must have calculated this pretty good. They could have gone through Singapore remember? The main aim of this is to break the dominance of the other alliance on the LHR - HKG - SYD route (and make money on it of course). As for Singapore Airlines, they still have Asian routes to market as well as Australian and the €urope - Australia market is so large there is arguably loads more room.

Aussiestu: Off the subject, yes, but I am campaigning on a matter of honour and nobility  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

NickofAtlanta: Tis true, however daily flights to Sydney is more profitable than a once per week flight to JFK / ORD.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
andrew
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 9:58 pm

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR -

Sat Jun 15, 2002 9:36 pm

Someone mentioned in another post recently that SIN-SYD is SQ's 3rd most profitable route. Don't know how that would apply to BA though, but hey, it might give some idea of the routes importance.
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: VS To Challenge 1world On Kangaroo Route LHR - SYD

Sat Jun 15, 2002 9:48 pm

Singapore - Sydney is a very very profitable route, main reason is that there are a large number of transit passengers on the 3 daily flights, especially SQ220 and SQ222. Also not just transit passengers, there are also people travelling to Singapore from Sydney or from Singapore to Sydney, though this is not the main point.

If VS flies HKG-SYD, it would be a great thing for passengers. Overlap of SQ? No way! Thinking that HKG-SYD is mainly passengers heading for Hong Kong! And to be honest, Hong Kong authorities should abandon the closed sky policy and follow Singapore and Bangkok, adopting the open-sky policies! You could see how succesful Bangkok and Singapore is as a transit airport, especially Singapore.

Best Regards

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