cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Mon Jun 17, 2002 9:29 am

Noticed in the 'First Flights To NY By Foreign Airlines' thread that Qantas first appeared in NY in the 50s with Constellations, and with 747 Classics in 1973. Here is my understanding of QF's round-the-world routings, but hoping some of you know more, especially re the 747.

Don't know how the Connies (or 747s) made their way to JFK, but in Qantas' 707 heyday, there were three different RTW routes. The main one converged on NY from two different directions, one flight crossed the Pacific via Auckland, S Pacific, Hawaii, LA (&/or SF), then a US transcon to JFK. The other route was via Darwin, SE Asia, India, M East, across Europe (with, depending on the day, stops at Belgrade, Geneva and others long gone from the QF route map), Frankfurt, Heathrow then across the Atlantic to JFK. There was a third route across Central America to Heathrow, which took in Acapulco, Mexico City, Nassau and Bermuda (honestly).

Hope that's interesting (and if there's any subject that's going to bring J Travolta out of the woodwork, it's this), wondering if anyone has any further details about QF's RTW routings, and the JFK operation.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:32 am

Interesting information. Does QF still fly to JFK? Also, I knew that they had did done this, but why did they fly to Belgrade?
 
Rai
Posts: 1697
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:48 am

Qantas flies three days a week to JFK. QF 108 JFK-LAX-SYD.

QF flew to Belgrade because there is a large Yugoslav population in Australia.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4897
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Mon Jun 17, 2002 2:32 pm

Belgrade was a stopover city, QF would not have flown there otherwise.
 
Guest

RE: Qantas Connie Routes

Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:27 pm

QANTAS' RTW service began on 14th January 1958, using L1049Gs. The Super Constellations flew to JFK from Sydney, via Fiji, Honolulu and San Francisco. By this time the wing tip tanks had been installed on the L1049s, and Canton Island was no longer used as a refuelling stop as in previous years. This had taken place between Nandi and Honolulu on the Pacific service.
The RTW services were initially two a week, one from Melbourne and one from Sydney. Two other flights connected with BOAC in San Francisco, so with partner airlines, this amounted to four flights a week.
QANTAS' B707 RTW services began on 27th October 1959.
 
timz
Posts: 6102
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Slight Correction?

Tue Jun 18, 2002 12:14 am

I'm guessing Qantas never had a RTW flight, if by that we mean a flight that flew all the way around the world without stopping more than a couple hours at a time. They flew Australia-London westbound, and Australia-London eastbound, but never all the way around-- right?
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Tue Jun 18, 2002 1:00 am

The aircraft probably did go all the way around. Timz, you're splitting hairs. If the flight number changed somewhere, or the aircraft changed, it's a fairly small difference. I think it's fair to say Qantas had a round the world service (ditto BOAC...imagine flying on a BOAC VC10 from Honolulu to Sydney?!).
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
timz
Posts: 6102
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Yes, A Semantic Distinction

Tue Jun 18, 2002 1:51 am

Qantas had round the world service-- but by my definition they never (AFAIK) had a RTW service. Can anyone find a timetable with an all-the-way-round Qantas flight?
 
jasewgtn
Posts: 771
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2000 5:24 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:56 am

ZK-NBT

Belgrade wasn't just a stopover city for QF, until they pulled out in the late 80's I think, it was in fact a destination/terminator flight

Regards
Jase
 
Britair
Posts: 900
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route Hist

Tue Jun 18, 2002 4:04 am

Belgrade was indeed a destination in its own right, and was very popular, but like Athens, Amsterdam and Manchester was dropped in the late 80's due to low yield (no business traffic, all VFR - visiting friends & relatives)

Cheers  Big grin
 
David_itl
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:34 am

Britair, your airline has caused many a foreign airline to "tactically" withdraw MAN services as your airline prefers carting passengers (especially the premium payers) down to LHR. Care to remember the QF service here...what was it, tell QF to park the 747 at LHR all day, BA would fly the pax down on a "dedicated" feeder flight, and then withdrew the service as it was taking traffic away from the shuttle service. Yes, BA - London's favourite airline.

Incidentally, QF's lounge at MAN was voted their best in the world in 1994 by the very businessmen/frequent flyers that allegedly never came here.

David
 
timz
Posts: 6102
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

A Sidelight

Tue Jun 18, 2002 8:12 am

The 10/55 OAG shows stops at Canton only on eastward flights. Do the winds blow out of the NE down there?
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:03 am

I was on QF 108 ( a year ago on 6/25), coming into JFK. What/to where does it leave JFK for?

PS That 727 shot got cut off at the end. Bummer.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4897
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:12 pm

QF108 operates SYD-LAX-JFK-LAX-SYD!!

Strange I would never of thought that QF would of had a terminator service to Belgrade, oh well I just found out something I didn't no!
 
v jet
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 9:04 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Tue Jun 18, 2002 6:27 pm

QF107 ops SYDLAXJFK
QF108 ops JFKLAXSYD
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Tue Jun 18, 2002 6:34 pm

I am pretty certain that Qantas did have a RTW flight. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact routing. All I know is it went through Mexico City. In fact, that was the only true RTW flight because it crossed both hemispheres.
 
notdownnlocked
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:05 am

From the QF 3/31/67 schedule that also states on the cover "Australia's Round-The-World Airline" the flights from JFK went to SFO and also to LHR 3x weekly. There is also no mention of Belgrade in this schedule so perhaps it's in another but I didn't look. Their most interesting route was the Fiesta Route SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR 1x weekly and SYD-AKL-PPT-ACA-MEX 1x weekly also.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Wed Jun 19, 2002 3:58 am

I remember, as a child, that QF flew the "very usuaual and very exotic" FIESTA Route with all of the stops mentioned above.......really an amazing routing, something that you no longer see in today's world of hubs and alliances; these exotic routes were flown with the 707s.

QF did fly to both SFO and LAX for the longest time, I believe that the SFO service was terminated during the time that BA took an ownership interest in QF; at the time BA also owned a piece of US Air. The idea was that US Air could fly the SFO originating pax down from SFO to LAX on a dedicated feeder flight (much like the MAN-LHR scheme mentioned above) and then join the Australia bound flights. When US and BA broke up, and US pulled out of the West Coast markets, this system came to an end and SFO was quietly dropped from the QF route system.

While it is unlikely we will ever see the FIESTA Route return, QF could certainly reopen SFO as a gateway with a daily service to SYD, and it is likely that MAN could support a 3 times per week service MAN-SIN or BKK-SYD; in my personal opinion, airlines are getting a bit to focused on hubs and I think that pax would support new direct services. I am sure that everyone in MAN is tired of connecting in LHR to go just about anywhere, for example.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:09 am

Interesting points Dutchjet, I bet populations in the likes of Manchester (and in the case of flights to Aus, AMS, ATH, Belgrade as well) would like more direct services but unfortunately these decisions are made by beancounters and unless the passengers from these regions count a fair proportion of high-yield business travellers in their midst, they're not going to get the services. Anyway the hubs offer more variety nowadays anyway, since passengers from Manchester have plenty of one- or two-stop ways of getting to Aus: Malaysia, Emirates, SQ, Cathay, Olympic... From Amsterdam: EK, SQ, CX, OA, MH, TG, UA... Even Helsinki is joined to SYD with one stop (Thai via BKK).
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

As a child, I flew BOAC and Qantas from JFK to SYD frequently.
QF 747's never operated this flight- always the 707's as QF withdrew from JFK around the same time their first 747's were being delivered. Both airlines used the same flight numbers for the LHR-JFK-SFO-HNL-NAN-SYD route: 531 to SYD, 530 to LHR. Both airline services were dropped at QF's request as the loads were quite dismal, especially on their JFK-LHR sector.

Due to curfew restrictions at JFK, on the SYD-LHR service, pax were accommodated at a SFO airport hotel for 6 hours to wait it out until the flight could leave SFO for JFK.

However, my best journey involved a BOAC breakdown in HNL on return to JFK. As the flight was operated by a RR powered 707, there were no spares and the replacement part had to be flown in from LHR... therefore, all pax were put up at the Outrigger Waikiki for 3 days until the aircraft was serviceable!

On another note, QF service to LAX didn't start until about 1979 using 3x weekly 747 combis LAX-HNL-SYD.
 
timz
Posts: 6102
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Curfew At Jfk?

Thu Jun 20, 2002 8:50 am

8/68 OAG shows QF 530 arriving SFO 1845; arrival in JFK was 0800 so they must have spent 5+ hours in SFO. First class and coach went to the hotel?

I guess this wasn't a curfew for noise, was it? Maybe the customs inspection in JFK shut down after midnight? Pan Am's DC-8 from Dakar arrived JFK at 0415, but maybe they had their own customs crew in their terminal.

In 4/74 QF 580 left Sydney at 0945 Thu and Sun; stop for

45 min at NAN
60 min PPT
60 min ACA
60 min MEX
45 min NAS
45 min BDA
and arrive LHR 1055 Monday (the Thu departure only went as far as MEX). No indication that this was a RTW flight.

How many crew changes on this flight? Did a crew sit in ACA or NAS for days waiting for their flight back?
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Qantas Round-The-World And New York Route History

Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:06 am

Correct- all pax were sent to a SFO Airport Hotel for the JFK curfew. I know everyone hated it- not enough time to go to sleep.

I'm pretty sure these flights arrived at the International Arrivals Building... the BOAC-Air Canada Terminal opened in 1972 (I think) so some of these flights may have arrived/departed from there once this facility opened.