Lundqvist
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Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 2:16 pm

Hi all,

With the withdrawal of Icelandair in Halifax last fall, are there any news of it returning? I read that this route was doing very well before it was gone. With the bookings going down insignificantly when comparing to other destinations such as Baltimore where a sizable subsidy was given to the airline to keep it running in the airport.
And is Winnipeg going to get a flight from Keflavik? Well now with flights to Minneapolis weekly does the chance seems dimmer? Icelandair could have gone to Winnipeg as oppose to Minneapolis but it's probably because of Canada's protectionist policy.
I am hoping for Icelandic to return to Canada now that there are no direct connection between Canada and the Nordic countries with the exception of the seasonal Helsinki from Toronto.

M. Lundqvist
 
jabpilot
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 4:44 pm

Minneapolis service weekly? When did this start? I thought MSP-KEF was a daily nonstop.

Jeff

 
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eta unknown
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 5:39 pm

Halifax was operated with B737-400 equipment which has been phased out. Halifax probably doesn't have sufficient demand to warrant a 757-200 service.
 
jetset
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 5:59 pm

attn eta.....

halifax was served by 757.on very rare and i mean rare occasions it was 737.

that i can confirm.....i work at halifax intl airport



rgds
jetset
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:05 pm

Jetset- thanks for the info... didn't know Halifax was upgraded to a 757!
 
Marco
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:11 pm

A few months before being discontinued it was upgraded to a B757. The demand was there, but Sept. 11th ruined that.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:15 pm

YWG makes sense for several reasons:
1. The largest Icelandic community outside of Iceland is in YWG.
2. YWG is the largest Canadian city without transatlantic service.
3. Many Scandinavian-Canadians are in Western/Central Canada & would benefit from good connections thru KEF to Scandinavia.

Perhaps Icelandair considers YWG too close to MSP to warrant service.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
RDPS
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:22 pm

Jetset,

Could you please contact me at radar_control@hotmail.com

Thanks.
 
AFC_Ajax00
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:23 pm

What happened to the 737-400's? any replacements planned or not?
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; for there you long to return
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Sun Jun 23, 2002 11:16 pm

Icelandair is standardizing on the 757. Which is surprizing given that there are probably many routes that could support a 737-size aircraft profitably which would also develop into a 757-market at a later date.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
polaris
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:54 am

Lundqvist says it's probably because of Canada's protectionist policy.

I don't understand the basis for this statement. Canada has among the most open bilateral agreements...with those countries that offer Canada the same openness in return.

With regards to the agreement with Iceland, Icelandair has rights into Halifax (maximum five times weekly), Montreal, and either Winnipeg or St John's. If Icelandair doesn't serve these cities, then it is their choice. It has nothing to do with Canadian policy.



 
Lundqvist
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:26 am

Hi Polaris,

I think for many years, Transport Canada has been very protective of her national carrier Air Canada.
Icelandair attempted to have a bilateral agreement with Canada in the early 90s but was rejected by the Transport Canada saying that the agreement won't be necessary. But finally, with the enthusiastic support of the city of Icelandair were finally able to fly to Halifax twice weekly. After a few season Icelandair then asked Transport Canada for the rights of daily flights to Halifax and it is not until five years later that Icelandair gets the answer. They finally gets the right to fly 5 times weekly to Halifax in 2001.
Icelandair has also been asking for rights to fly to Toronto on every other occation, but was instead given the rights to Montreal (Mirabel only) at first, then Winnipeg and St.John's in 2001.
With no Canadian carrier interested in flying to Iceland from Canada, I think Transport Canada could have go easy on Icelandair's demands, perhaps granting the airline the rights to fly to Toronto or to Halifax on a daily basis years ago. Icelandair's Halifax route has helped the city, perhaps NS quite a bit as more tourists are coming to the region from the Nordic countries and most of Iceland's businesses in Canada are located in the area.
Icelandair is probably not the only airline who has been affected by Transport Canada's policies. But it is sad to see an airline like Icelandair leave.

M.Lundqvist
 
polaris
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:15 am

Actually, the Government of Canada made it easier for Icelandair to gain access to Canada.

You're right - Canada did say that an agreement was not necessary. In fact, there is still no official bilateral agreement between Iceland and Canada. Services are operated based on a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) dated 1995 September 26 - and updated a few times since then. With this MOU, they were able to get services established sooner while, if necessary, negotiations could continue towards an official bilateral agreement.

You are also correct in saying that rights into Toronto are not being granted. This is not to protect Canadian air carriers. It is because Toronto is one of the main bargaining points available to Canada. Other countries have to be able to give to Canada something of equal value in order to gain access to Toronto.

With the MOU, Iceland has a major advantage. In addition to serving three Canadian cities (Halifax, Montreal and either Winnipeg or St. John's), Iceland has the right to carry passengers between these cities and Europe and vice-versa through Iceland - often called Sixth Freedom Rights - as long as there is a connection.

In return, Canada has asked that Icelandic authorities approve charter flights between the two countries and that Icelandair provide ground handling for Canada 3000 (a carrier that is no longer in service). The benefits right now appear to be in favour of Iceland.

Why Icelandair does not exercise its rights into Canada is a good question. I would be interested in finding out why, too. However, I don't think it is because of the MOU.

A pleasure.
 
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:29 am

Hello,

Would anyone have traffic figures please?

The business case of Icelandair is very interesting, but I really wonder how they manage to make money on these niche markets since they usually attract passengers with lower fares and must have higher units costs than those of the big transatlantic majors they are in competition with. There's no comparison between the economics of an A330-300, a 747-400 and those of a 757-300. Especially if you operate 15-20 airplanes of the type.


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Alain Mengus
ATB - Canada 3000 -- Airbus A340-300


 
polaris
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:41 am

The latest figures I have are for 1998.

There were 22 000 one-way passenger trips between Canada and Iceland. That would be 44 000 return.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 7:55 am

Why would the Can govt deny Icelandair the right to fly to YYZ but offer YUL?

Why should the YYZ market not benefit from the economic stimulus that Icelandair flights would provide?

More discrimination against YYZ by our own Fed Govt.

Disgraceful.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
fallingeese
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 7:58 am

Yyz717 - discriminating against YYZ....lol....try living in the west my friend.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
ywg777
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:42 am

I hope Icelandair comes back. I am sure Winnipeg will probably on their priorty list. Manitoba does have the largest icelandic population in all of Westren Canada and it kinda of makes a bit of sense to fly here a 757.

They do have the rights to Winnipeg that I do know.

Shawn
 
Lundqvist
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:08 am

Hi Yyz717,

If I remembered correctly Icelandair is only allowed to fly into Mirabel but not Dorval. Given that Mirabel has many disadvantage to its location and etc it is not a very attractive option for the airline. I would think that with Icelandair operating in YYZ would benefit the travellers in Toronto but the government of Canada thinks that it might not be such a good idea for Air Canada.

Hi Polaris,

Thanks for the explaining. But I think if a bilateral agreement (or even an open sky agreement like Iceland-US did) was signed in the 90s, Icelandair might have established a transatlantic market in Canada. Although there's MOU, and like you said that it might lead to a bilateral agreement, there have been few meetings between the two and in most cases Icelandair was offered something else other than what they requested. Transport Canada even cancelled one of its meeting with Icelandair few years ago. During that time, Icelandair were expanding in the US much faster and easier with the open sky agreement. Today there are no direct connections between Canada and Iceland while JFK, Boston, Minneapolis, Orlando and Washington are served by Icelandair.

In return of this MOU Icelandair seems to benefit more, but I don't think any Canadian carriers is interested in the market in Iceland at all (except for C3000's seasonal to Iceland which has been gone for quite a while now).

The request for Toronto was rejected because like what you said, Transport Canada thinks that Icelandair, with the sixth-freedom right connection advantage, would cut into Air Canada's core market (Toronto). This case makes Transport Canada looks very protective of its airline and its market, if it's not already is. Furthermore Transport Canada made the negotiations uneasy for the airline. An Icelandic official have recall his experience dealing with the department by saying that he's "far more willing to deal with Moscow than Canada."

With the discontinued of the Halifax-Keflavik route did really hindered the city and the region in many ways. Before the route was axed, Icelandair and the NS tourism board worked together in promoting the region's (Atlantic Canada)
tourism in Scandinavia and Iceland (an example would be the "Viking Millennium" held in Newfoundland last year). And I believed that the number of tourist from Scandinavia and Iceland has increased quite dramatically over the last five years. In 1999, Icelandair carried about 25% of the tourists from Europe to Nova Scotia. The region was also in the process of establishing a market in Iceland and (vice versa) during the years.

There are probably many reasons why Icelandair axed the route (September 11th...), but I think the MOU is one of them. If Icelandair had established a good network in Canada like they did in the US, this situation might have been different.

M.Lundqvist
 
Lundqvist
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:17 am

Hello,

There's an interesting relationship between Manitoba and Iceland. New Iceland was located in the shore of Lake Winnipeg. Unlike most other Europeans, Canada was the main destination of Icelandic immigrants, given the fact that Iceland was one of the few European countries (if not the only country) that have sent more immigrants to Canada than to the United States. At one time Icelanders accounts for five percent of the province's population! I do very much hope that Icelandair will resume its service to Canada!

M.Lundqvist
 
AC330
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:24 am

I was planning on taking a trip to Iceland on Icelandair from Halifax before the route was cancelled. Does anybody know if they will ever come to YHZ again? I would love to see them back. I know someone who worked at YHZ and said that their flights were always full!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:20 am

Yyz717 - discriminating against YYZ....lol....try living in the west my friend.

I actually agree with you Fallingeese. The West has the poorest deal in Confederation. But here in YYZ we still see plenty of pro-Quebec (ie, anti-YYZ) activity by our own fed govt.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:27 am

I am almost 100% positive that the decesion to axe Halifax was made before 9.11.
a.
 
AC330
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:30 am

MAH4546 I think you are right. I remember hearing in AUgust of last year that Icelandair was cancelling service to Halifax....I was still very surprised. I would love to see them back at YHZ.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:42 am

Perhaps the YHZ cancellation was part of a long range strategy to drop routes that were developing to 752 pax levels, since they are standardizing on the 757.

Neil
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
AC330
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:44 am

But YHZ was served by Icelandair's 757-200
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:51 am

I thought YHZ was served by the 734 primarily? Perhaps with the 734 being phased out, it was felt that YHZ did not pass muster as a regular/confirmed 752-size market.

Or maybe yields were simply too low?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
polaris
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:13 am

Hi Lundqvist:

A couple of points I would like to add.

First, I didn't say this: The request for Toronto was rejected because like what you said, Transport Canada thinks that Icelandair, with the sixth-freedom right connection advantage, would cut into Air Canada's core market (Toronto).

What I said was that Toronto is a major bargaining point for Canada. Access to Toronto is never given freely. It is Canada's prime market and, as such, in order to gain access to Toronto, the other country must be willing to match with something of equal value.

With regards to Montreal, Mirabel is now a "leisure" and cargo airport. Dorval is a "scheduled" airport. If Icelandair were to begin scheduled service to Montreal, they would be serving Dorval.

The agreement with the US is part of a larger political agreement between the US and Iceland. This involves military consideration and is very different from the situation with Canada. The US was willing to give up access to their country for additional military considerations.

The reason for not serving Canada under the current MOU is for Icelandair to explain. Under the current rules, they could serve Halifax, Montreal, and Winnipeg or St John's, Halifax, and Montreal. These are all markets that people on this site claim to be "underserved". With their sixth freedom rights, Icelandair could provide expanded service for these cities to Iceland and Europe. In my view, Icelandair has great potential in these markets but chooses not to exercise their rights.
 
yow
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:57 am

I remember reading an online article stating that Icelandair dropped daily service because TC was denying them the right to fly the route daily. The article went on to say that without a daily flight the long-term profitability on the route looked rather poor. And yes it was dropped before 9/11 occurred.

Why the government would deny Icelandair daily flights to 'protect' our own carriers (who other than C3 charters from out west) had no interest whatsoever in flying to Iceland is beyond sensible thinking. Instead, with them leaving, the opposite has happened with YHZ losing the economic benefits this flight brought.
 
yow
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Here's The Article!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:00 am

They story is really interesting. It takes awhile to read, but it should provide a better understanding to the whole situation.

Here's the link: http://www.upei.ca/~iis/iceair04.html
 
Lundqvist
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:37 am

Hello,

What I meant by you said is that Icelandair has the sixth freedom right. I am sorry not making it clear.

But it is hard to find something of equal value like Toronto in a small country like Iceland which has a population of less tham 300,000. And I really don't think the military base is the main reason behind the openair agreement. Yes the base is in Keflavik but I don't think granting the access to Icelandair is the reason why it's still there given that most Icelanders are more than displease with it since it got there. United States is probably just less protective of their airline industry (which make sense), and it has open skies agreement with many other countries (like Sweden). But I really don't know the US -Iceland situation well enough to make firm comment on it.

What I read on some other post is that AC actually get rid of Singapore Airlines in the early 90s, saying that it's taking away the businesses from AC. The situation is probably different, at least Singapore Airlines did actually get to fly to Toronto.

And that's the article I read. It probably explains the viewpoint much better than I. ITA that YHZ is losing the economic benefits that Icelandair have brought. I moved to Nova Scotia a few years ago with Icelandair and I very much enjoyed the stay in Iceland. Now that I am moving back in August I can't stop in Iceland this time.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:01 am

i am planning a trip to KEF and wonder what the U.S. cites that FI serves?
i know one is MSP,BOS and?

does anybody know of any others?
any good web sites on iceland and the fun thing s to do there?




ual 777 contrail
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:35 am

FI also serves BWI, JFK and MCO.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Lundqvist
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:45 pm

There're lots of great places to visit in Iceland!
Here's their tourism board http://www.icetourist.is/frontpage.asp?cat_id=1 (sorry I don't know how to post a link)
Asid for friends and family, my favorite place to visit in Iceland is around Lake Myvatn, beautiful place lot of things you can do in the area; Heimaey Island, the eruption site, the city and its setting is wonderful; And I usually drive up to my friends house in northern Iceland to ride their infamous horses. I heard that you can find information on this activity in the tourist office in Reykjavik.
And there are things to do in Reykjavik as well but I don't usually spend a lot of time there, as it is very expensive to have a good place to stay.
Hopes that helps!

M.Lundqvist
 
ywg777
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:50 pm

I think Icelandair should give Halifax another chance. If not halifax then Montreal and Winnipeg for sure. if they came into the Winnpeg Market they would do extremly well because of the population and alot of ppl would fly through KEF then YYZ. breaks the trip to Europe in half. I would say its about a 5 hour flight from YWG-KEF and about a 4 hour flight to LHR. The question is when will they plan on doing this or if they will do it? any thoughts?

Shawn
 
fallingeese
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:56 pm

Most people try to find the fastest, shortest route, not the one with a break in the middle. Icelandair doesn't have great connections to points beyond either. The majority of the traffic would be KEF-YWG, no continuations, unless it's to a passengers originating location on Mapleflot or Westjet.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
polaris
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:08 pm

I've been away for a while but did want to follow-up on this thread because bilateral agreements interest me. I wanted to pick up on a couple more of Lundqvist's points.

The "article" that was posted above is a paper that was written by a student at the University of Prince Edward Island.

The US is very protective of its aviation market...very protective of all its markets and does not agree to anything that does not, somehow, benefit its own interests. You can be sure that the US gets some major benefit from open skies agreements with smaller countries. Benefits to the US are not always aviation-related. It is, in fact, the responsibility of any government to get the best deal for their nationals. It is the same for Canada and Iceland. Each government tries to get the best deal for itself through negotiations. A country's size does not matter because many small countries are aviation powerhouses.

The Singapore issue was very different and, in fact, Singapore and the UK complained that Air Canada was carrying too much traffic between the UK and Singapore...but this is a very different issue.

Back to Icelandair, they have very good rights into Canada right now. They don't need access to Toronto. The Toronto - Europe route is already served by 13 scheduled airlines offering nonstop service. Why would Icelandair want to enter this market? Figures quoted above show that there is not enough traffic between Iceland and Canada so they must rely on sixth freedom rights - which they have. Why not serve the three Canadian cities to which they have rights and offer service through Iceland to Europe? They have rights to Halifax, Montreal, and either St. John's or Winnipeg. People in these communities (supposedly) claim that they are underserved. What better opportunity for Icelandair to pick up the traffic - if it exists.

The real question here is not the air agreement between the two countries but why Icelandair does not use and develop the rights it already has.

 
flyyul
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:48 pm

Neil,

The Federal government is a PRO-Toronto only government which has 70% of its voting populus in the Southern Ontario belt. Now maybe you can get over yourself, because in the tourism campaigns sponsored by the Canadian government, we see the Niagara falls and the lovely and so unique CN tower (to show that your big and tough, the needle in the air really makes you all the more powerful), and all the fantastic features of the Americanized Toronto.

The Quebec situation is caused by an ignorance in English and French Canada. French people brainwashed by the fears projected by the hardcores, and the English Canada view that Quebec is getting too fair a treatment, and that we should disgard them of any special status. Mind you Neil, Quebecers hate Jean Chretien, and would vote overwhelmingly federalist if he wasnt there, and say Paul Martin was the big Tuna. But remember, you Torontonians complaining about everybody else are the ones who voted for this fool over and over again, and you definitely reap what you sow.

Mind you Neil, and let me ask you this again, if the Canadian government is not pro-Toronto, and the good old CBC makes you believe that Toronto is the only part of the country, then why arent the Montreal Canadiens the "national" team of Canada because they are much preferred in Canada over the Maple Laughs.

It is so funny to watch you guys down south the 401. I love Canada, and I liek the city of Toronto, but what I hate only, is the Toronto attitude.....

God bless your "federal government discriminating us" view Neil.... another laugh and a half.

Mark
 
Rai
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:53 pm

Mark: While I agree with much of what you've said, I don't think this has anything to do with the topic at hand and I think it belongs in the non-av forum.
 
flyyul
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:03 pm

I agree Raj,

I just hate this guy's attitude.... but ill defend the integrity of Montrealers any day..

Mark
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:13 pm

I also seem to remember back in the Halifax 737-400 days, that aircraft operated a connecting flight to Glasgow.
So... of the total number of pax to/from Halifax, how many originated or were destined to Glasgow?
 
ywg777
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:11 am

I havn't herd of any new news yet on this issue. Chances are likely that Ice Air will be back in Canada soon since Air travel is really picking up here. Hopefully a announcement will be soon. At least Icelandair has rights to 4 canadian cities so chances are real good. if they get rights to YYZ then they will step in.

anyone herd any news on them lately planning service to YWG or YHZ?

Shawn
 
C-GRYK
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:13 am

Shawn,

What makes you think FI will be back in Canada so soon? Just because air travel in general is picking up, doesn't mean a Canada-Iceland route would be profitable. Yet another one of your totally uninformed statements... lemme guess, they should serve YWG instead of YYZ because it's "easy to get slot times at YWG"..... Show me some stats, then I'll take you seriously...

Jeremy
in Shropshire, England
Think before you type!
 
voodoo
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:58 am

Methinks a lot of potential VFR (visiting friends/relatives) traffic (Winnipeg), and shopping (St. John's) traffic is already taken by Air Atlanta seasonal charters.
I have seen a 747 load of day-tripper shoppers at YYT head for the shopping malls. Potential Icelandair scheduled service to YYT could probably not sustain regular Icelandic traffic similiar to Braathens service: Norway to Newcastle (Does that still exist?) And as has been discussed KEF is still too small a hub to attract Canadian-Europe traffic in competition to non-stops.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:17 am

YYZ loses when Icelandair is denied landing rights at YYZ. The economic benefits within the YYZ economy are lost.

More discrimination against YYZ by the Fed govt in favour of the Quebec-based Air Canada.

Disgusting.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
polaris
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:14 pm

Yyz717 Merde disturber, eh? Let's sit back and watch.  Big grin
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:30 pm

lol Polaris. Not intentionally, at least all the time. There is a certain little hot-head in YUL who I find mildly amusing at times.

Seriously, I am a strong proponent of removing government interference from the economy. AC has shown NO INTENTION of serving KEF, so Icelandair should be allowed into YYZ. The economic benefits of a daily 752 into any market is estimated at about $75M to the local economy.

The denial of Icelandair into YYZ hurts the YYZ economy (the engine of the Canadian economy no less). What a bunch of bozo's we have in Ottawa.

Plus, this Scandinavian-Canadian wants to see an Icelandair 752 in YYZ.

 Big thumbs up
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:51 am

Neil,

Your making everybody upset because you know that the government in canada especially will never stop interferring in the economy, especially in the Toronto one because that's the backbone of the Liberal government's support.. your pretty much in denial, and or frustrated, while trying to agitate me and others by spreading the rubbish your keep preaching....

If you think Ottawa is a joke, then why do you guys keep voting for them? HELLO? You never answer any of my points..... I want an answer!!

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: Icelandair In Canada

Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:58 am

Stop with the personal insults FLYYUL and I'll address your questions.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Icelandair In Canada

Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:03 am

Youve pretty much insulted every french speaking Canadian, Montrealer, and Quebecker, and made a fool of yourself and others....

And youve had plenty of time to adress my questions

Mark