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US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 1:00 pm

US denies a recent internet rumor of the newest theory of how CI611 crash.

The new theory involves with the US un-manned spy plane.

The rumour said:

US sent a unmanned spy plane from an undisclosed airport from Japan. The plane was heading towards South China Sea to detect the latest military practice by China. However, this spy plane collided with the China Airlines 747 on Taiwan Strait, causing the 747 to break apart, and both crashed into the sea.

The rumour also "explained" that the 4 big dots on the radar screen. One of the dot was moving in the opposite direction than the other 3. Those 3 dots were ripped-apart CI 747-200, and the other one flying opposite direction was the Spy plane.

It also states that the CIA is involved with this investigation, and US never sends personnel to Taiwan when a plane crashed. But they did this time. Even Mainland China trying to use fishing boats to detect the latest move from Taiwan.

Aviation Security Council Executive Young Kay and US has both denied the rumour.

This rumour was reported by the media after the Conversation from the CVR was unveiled.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/858233/
 
lanperu
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 1:12 pm

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if it was caused by that...pretty weird though..
 
b757300
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:21 pm

Oh good grief. I knew someone, somewhere would try to blame the United States for this.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:35 pm

Well they shot down an A300, they sunk a Japanese fishing boat and they blew up the Chinese Embassy so its not out of the question !!
 
Red Panda
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:24 pm

So am I.
I am not surprised.

r panda
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:45 pm

CI 611 Went off radar at FL350. The predator Drone used by the CIA has a service ceiling of 25,000 ft. Hopefully this puts a dent in your little theory.

The CIA is involved probably because tensions have been rising between taiwan and china and you never know what can happen in those types of situations.
 
ben88
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:54 pm

Yeah you really believe what the government tells you. They claimed for years that nothing was going on at area 51. I doubt that an unmanned spy ship would be limited to 25,000 feet.
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:01 pm

Trust me, if you knew anything about aerospace engineering, you'd know it was limited to a ceiling of 25,000 feet (it is propellor driven). What you've just said proves how far fetched this theory is.
 
dragogoalie
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:48 pm

And when they accidentally sunk a Japanese fishing boat...They admitted it and claimed responsibility, same with the embassy...You who think this was a US spy plane are full of crap and you know it. If the object moving in the opposite direction on the radar was indeed a spyplane, ATC would have told them about it, not just let it hit the plane. Not to mention I highly doubt the unmanned spyplanes are flown blind. They have to have some sort of radar or such. With millions and millions of dollars going into its production, I'm sure they took into account that there are other planes in the sky. Keep dreaming though. Its just so sad that people are always looking for a way to bring the US down because they themselves feel inadequate.

--dragogoalie-#88--
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
L-188
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:06 pm

Besides as that moron, the late Wong (wrong way) Wei proved.

It is the pilots of the PLAAF that tend to run into american built airplanes.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
crewchief32
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:29 pm

So did the cable railway in the Italian Alps, from your point of view, I guess??
 
L-188
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 6:18 pm

I wasn't aware the alps where located over the South China Sea, CrewChief32
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
voodoo
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 7:01 pm

KAUSpilot wrote:
>Trust me, if you knew anything about aerospace engineering, you'd know it was limited to a ceiling of >25,000 feet (it is propellor driven). What you've just said proves how far fetched this theory is.
----

Just as a point of info (not an endorsement of this theory)...
The Predator, as used in Afghanistan, is a prop.
But the newer long distance UAVs under development are, indeed, jets.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
voodoo
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 7:12 pm

Further info:

from:
http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/global.html
Global Hawk, which has a wingspan of 116 feet (35.3 meters) and is 44 feet (13.4 meters) long, can range as far as 12,000 nautical miles, at altitudes up to 65,000 feet (19,812 meters), flying at speeds approaching 340 knots (about 400 mph) for as long as 35 hours. During a typical mission, the aircraft can fly 1,200 miles to an area of interest and remain on station for 24 hours. Its cloud-penetrating, Synthetic Aperture Radar/Ground Moving Target Indicator, electro-optical and infrared sensors can image an area the size of Illinois (40,000 nautical square miles) in just 24 hours. Through satellite and ground systems, the imagery can be relayed in near-real-time to battlefield commanders.




` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
737doctor
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:22 pm

This thread will be locked soon...
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
swissgabe
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:43 pm

Oh good grief. I knew someone, somewhere would try to blame the United States for this.

I don't think its just a blame. Its a suspect and this should be checked. I don't say it was this way but it could...

737doctor
Why does it have to be locked soon, from my point this should be a normal discussion with the real facts and opinions only...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
L-188
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:44 pm

It is a bit early to lock this, don't you think
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
j.mo
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:37 pm

I'll bet the U.S was also to blame for Korean Air 007. I'll bet the idoit flying Singapore Airlines 006 was a secret, high level but poorly trained CIA saboteur.
Yes, we shot down a A300. Accident. but it was mentioned that the people MAY have been dead before the plane was shot down.
Yes, we sank a Japanesse fishing boat. Did we use torpedos or Harpoons? No. Again accident.
Yes, we bombed a Chinese embassy. Accident? Probably not. Just a lesson. So straightin' up and fly right.  Big grin
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:44 pm

I think that's the point, there are many accidents.

Why do you say the A300 passengers may have been dead before they were shot down? Wasn't it just an airliner load of regular passengers?
 
N79969
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:52 pm

This theory is silly. Perhaps the UAV was knocking on the cockpit door 10 minutes before deciding to hit the plane. That would explain the sounds on the CVR. This rumor was probably created by the same people that actually believe 9/11 was concocted by the US government.

As far as the Iran Air A300 goes, there are stories that the passengers on board had the cotton burial sheets prescribed by Islam and were all men. The story goes that these were political prisoners that Iran was trying to get rid of anyway. I don't know if it is true. In any case, the US acknowledged responsibility and offered compensation.
 
swissgabe
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:56 pm

Well, its nice that there are all sorts of different theories. I don't think it should be the question if this is true or not. I would more ask why there are this theories etc...

Another to mention is the TWA 747 from JFK to CDG...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
qatarairways
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:00 pm

"As far as the Iran Air A300 goes, there are stories that the passengers on board had the cotton burial sheets prescribed by Islam and were all men. The story goes that these were political prisoners that Iran was trying to get rid of anyway."

This is just a theory similar to the above saying that a UAV hit the CI 742. What I find peculiar was that the theory the UAV hit the CI 742 sparked a lot of anger and critiscm while the one about the IR A300 recieved no objection. Men, Women and Children were onboard and I believe the member "Marco" new someone onboard or a relative of someone on board.
 
N79969
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:03 pm

These theories are rooted in jealousy of the United States. The vast majority of them have no basis in reality. The United States is powerful and therefore resented.

What good is this theory or any other theory if does not matter whether it is true or not?
 
donder10
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:10 pm

Wasn't it the US' fault that Adam and Eve got into trouble?
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:10 pm

This "rumour", remains one, that's all. If there was any speculation, don't you think it would have made front page news by now?

It is ridiculous that a UAV can be flying at FL200 and above because based on specs, they cannot go beyond FL 130. They go out of control above 12000ft because of range of control. Plus a maximum speed of a UAV enough to tear a 747 apart? Now that I gotta see! Think about the physics involved, even if it was flying at the opposite direction. All the UAV would do is tickle the fuselage and maybe cause a hole like the Oceanic 747 in the movie Critical Decision or Executive Decision, dependingon which part of the world you are from.

Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
N79969
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:59 pm

QatarAirways, I think the difference is this: regardless of whoever was aboard the Iran Air airplane, the US admitted the mistake and paid up. In the CI case, the theory has no basis in any physical evidence or any other type of reality. Yet people are willing to consider it just as seriously as mechanical failure as a cause for the accident. Like I said before, people only entertain these ideas out of their resentment towards the US.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:02 am

If a 747 is travelling at speed, it doesn't take much of an impact to bring it down, and a UAV, if a direct hit could very easily bring a 747 down. They're only made of tin foil you know!
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:05 am

Ryanair!!! I have no idea how much water this UAV theory holds (probably none), but a decently sized UAV, such as Global Hawk (wingspan of 116 feet and length of 44 feet), would do more than 'tickle the fuselage' - you are talking about a relatively large vehicle that would do a significant ammount of damage - at the very least causing a decompression, which if it was in the right place could cause a significant structural failure. Dont forget that it would be carrying fuel which would most likely ignite. Also, I was under the impression that the latest generation of UAVs operated on an automated system without requiring ground contact (indeed, when uplink/downlink is required, it is done via satellite.).

It is still very early into the investigation - I think it is premature to be concluding that CI611 was taken out by another aircraft, but at the same time, it is probably too early to discount the possibility (although the lack of wreckage from anything other than the 747, the lack of radar contact with another vehicle, and the lack of acknowledgement from the USA would all be rapidly relegating this possibility to remoteness.)

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
wingman
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:50 am

Everything points to the French...possibly the Belgians. Clearly french-speaking people were responsible for this tragedy. The only other candidate might be the new Chinese space project that is first testing its systems with dogs and other animals. It's not too farfetched to think that a dog may have thought the plane was a speeding tennis ball and chased it down, resulting in a huge tragedy. To appease all the anti-American conspiracy theorists though, the dog did think it was a Wilson tennis ball made in Iowa, so plenty of blame for the Americans as well. Now we can blame the French, The Chinese and the US and that should make everyone equally happy on this forum.
 
N79969
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:56 am

Wingman, I think you have solved it. Nice work.
 
zeus01
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:21 am

Yes, nice work Wingman. I put all my wonders to rest.

Remeber, the US is the bad guy. We only spy on people to try and destroy them because were so big and bad.
 
woodsboy
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:23 am

Its sure interesting how many of you think how utterly innocent the good old US of A is, thinking that they (we) would immediately fess up to any involvement in the crash of CI611 because of the straighforwardness always displayed by the US Government when they are at fault for a terrible accident. I would imagine that IF (I am not saying the US is responsible) the US had a spy plane up there in the vicinity of CI611, they certainly arent going to get on the global loudspeaker and broadcast it to the world. Not during the time when the US is attempting to project the image of global caretaker will they admit accidently (or otherwise) bringing down a civilian airliner with over 200 on board.

Just because the US admitted to shooting down the Iran Air A300 or bombing the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, it doesn't mean that they wanted to admit it. I am sure that if they could have gotten away without confessing, they would have, just like any powerful government would have done. Things happen every day around this world, governments of many nations carry out murders, raids, spy missions, kidnappings etc., they dont go around printing them in the newspaper.

To be so naive as to immediately dismiss any possible involvement of the US or other foreign government in this incident is to deny that there is a whole lot we dont know about and a whole lot that we will never know about. It doesnt mean its all bad and of course it doesnt mean that we SHOULDNT know, but we dont. The fishier the circumstances of a crash or accident and the more outlandish the proposed string of events that are enentually publicized, there is likely more of a chance that there were factors involved thst we will never know about.

 
UPS Pilot
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:35 am

I've heard it all now!! All of you that have criticized the U.S. because of accidents from the Japanese fishing boat incident to the accidental bombing of the Chinese embassy need to read more.

The U.S. has admitted and paid restitution in all of the above cases that were mentioned. Now who admitted and paid for Pan Am 103 ??? Who admitted and paid for the first WTC bombing ??? Who paid for and admitted to the USS Cole, and who paid and admitted to the destruction of the WTC on 9/11/01?

The U.S. has been involved in unfortunate accidents where we have conducted investigations and held the people who were responsible accountable for their actions. What is a shame is some of the countries those of you are from have not.

I guess that the 747 that broke apart could not have exploded from rapid decompression because of AGE. After all the plane was on it's last flight. No the U.S. did it! No, nobody blows up planes except if it has to do with the U.S. so they must be at fault. BTW, guess it was a unmanned U.S. spy drone that knocked down KAL 007 too along with TWA 800.

Some of you need to get a life!!!!!
 
Alberto Riva
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:55 am

Couldn't it conceivably have been a fuel tank explosion like the one that most likely brought down TWA 800?

Either that, or an onboard bomb. But that would lead to ask: Who placed the bomb and why? Mainland Chinese saboteurs? Not likely. These people aren't North Koreans. Was it Al Qaeda? Not likely either. If you're Al Qaeda and you plant a bomb on a plane departing TPE, you want it to be an American plane. Evil Airbus agents who want to ruin Boeing's image and sell lots of A340-600's to replace the 747-200's? Yeah. Sure. So I'm for the fuel tank explosion theory.
 
N79969
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:10 am

Alberto, Actually there has been no sign of fire or explosion on the wreckage pulled up so far. This is a very strange crash.
 
Alberto Riva
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:31 am

Uhhh. Six niner, I had no idea that there was no sign of fire or explosion. That pretty much shoots down (sick pun intended, sorry, I need coffee) the fuel tank scenario.

What about disastrous structural failure? The plane fell apart, it seems from radar tracks. Yet 747's don't break up in midair. Not like that. Anyway, this CI611 thing is really becoming spooky as you can see from this story, published by the news organization I work for.

http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/06/24/taiwan.crash/index.html

 
NWA742
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:39 am

UPS Pilot, you could not have said that better! I agree 100%



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
manni
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:07 am

Offcourse the US would denie this. Even if it is true, unless the Taiwanese show some hard evidence.

Alberto Riva,
"...most likely brought down TWA800..." Very well formulated. Shortly after that incident, there were rumours that the US navy had accidently shot down TWA800.

SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
N79969
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:27 am

Manni,

Let me correct, "of course the US denied- because it is utter nonsense."

I repeat that we admit IR, the Ehime Maru, the Belgrade Embassy, and so on. And we paid. Besides, Wingman settled it. It was insidious Franco-Belgian forces and a Chinese dog that were responsible.
 
travelin man
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:54 am

This reminds me of when the Egyptians (and others) were saying somehow the US and Israel were behind the Egyptair crash. And the TWA crash.

I'm not saying it is an impossibility, but the US has generally admitted when they (we) have screwed up. I don't see why that would change now.

It seems like when anyone wants an explanation for anything, the easiest and most convenient thing to do is blame the US government. It is getting really tiring.
 
voodoo
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:00 am

It may be getting tiring and easy, but in the end,
there's only one bull in this china shop.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
j.mo
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:10 am

Hmmm...They pull the ATC radar tapes from the military and civilian agencies which show the secondary radar return (civilian system), and the raw radar return or "skin paint" (military system). They could see individual pieces of the aircraft breaking apart so why couldn't they track the drone that hit the airplane?
Maybe because it's f*!*ing ridiculous story!! C'mon people. The U.S isn't the cause of all your misfortunes. We are just the one you rely on when your country gets it's arse in a jam....

Jeremy
 
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STT757
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:37 am

And when the US NAVY P-3 collided with the Chinese fighter it was the agressive and highly manuverable Prop driven P-3 that crashed into the poor slow fighter minding his business.

Sure.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:39 am

Also almost all US military aircraft fly at altitudes ranging from 50,000ft to 100,000+ft. Way above civilian aircraft.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
chiawei
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:39 am

Here is the deal with this story.

The appeared about 2 weeks ago on Taiwan's BBS newsgroup. It was posted by a guest user whose IP got traced to China.
This was a simple propaganda by the Chinese to create rift within in Taiwanese trust on US.

This is a bullshit story that was created by the communist barbarian as tool to create havoc. This is not the 1st time that Chinese use such low trick, and it won't be the last either.

Chinese are just barbaric in nature and would do anything possible to get its goal. Even using an accident in which 225 people lost their lives.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:33 am

Excuse me? Chinese are barbaric? I suppose all those school killings, police brutality, proves that you are all of sweet caring loving nature? Please. Don't start insulting an entire race unless you can really back it up. I guarantee that for every 'barbaric' act you can find, there will be some to prove that any other country is just the same. Some more so than others.
 
dragogoalie
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:56 am

Okay...here's my theory (and its kinda believeable too). It wasn't the US, it wasn't China. My theory doesn't explain exactly what it is, but according to that story that someone posted from CNN.com:
"The mystery sounds follow in the wake of radar data from Chinese authorities showing that the China Airlines CI611 flight bound for Hong Kong from Taipei experienced two sudden and as yet unexplained drops in altitude before it broke into four sections and crashed on May 25."

Two SUDDEN drops in altitude, and then the plane breaks up. It is an old plane, although that shoulden't matter because one would assume that it is kept mechanically sound according to FAR's, or whatever they call them in Taiwan. The strange sounds must have been something going wrong in which they had to decend quickly, or something going wrong that made the plane nose down violently making it break up. Just my theory. I'm just a student pilot, not an FAA investigator or anything, so this may not hold much water, but its still what I think.

--dragogoalie-#88--

Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
j.mo
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:13 am

ST757,
Really....Hmm. Very interesting. I am a military air traffic controller and that's news to me. Maybe U.S. Military U-2's fly above FL600. Maybe that's what you meant to say.  Big thumbs up
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:18 pm

Didn't Men n Black just come out? Maybe it was ALIENS!!!!!

These conspiracy theories are nuts! I have met some great people from China and Taiwan. I can't criticize all Chinese people. I wish some of you that posted did the same about us Americans.

Why is it though when misfortune hits your countries my tax dollars and the people of my country are always there to help sometimes even before your own governments? Why is it when something unfortunate happens to my country, then your countries celebrate and say we got what was coming to us???

To make this aviation related, Did the U.S. bring down all the KAL aircraft that crashed in recent years just so Boeing could help them out with their safety program???
 
Red Panda
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RE: US Denies Spy Plane Collided With CI611

Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:02 pm

Why is it though when misfortune hits your countries my tax dollars and the people of my country are always there to help sometimes even before your own governments?

Americans save the world again?! Yeah sure

r panda

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