SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:01 pm

Taiwan's Aviation Safety Council has said that it has heard a series of unidentified sounds of the China Airlines CI611 Boeing 747 before it broke up in mid air and crashed.

"Our initial judgment is that it is not a sound from normal operation of the plane," Kay Yong, managing director of Taiwan's Aviation Safety Council, who is also lead investigator for the air disaster, told reporters.

"I do not know what the sound is," he said.

Boeing Company, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration have listened to the recording several times.

So far, 161 bodies have been recovered out of 225.

More information at the Reuters / Yahoo website
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Singapore 777
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat May 29, 1999 3:00 pm

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:05 pm

Hmmm...in my opinion not very likely that those sounds were human heartbeats because the microphone is mounted just in front of their mouths and not very near the chest. Unless of course the cockpit area microphone is so sensitive, which is also not likely. Could it be that the microphone was somehow wrenched away from their heads and dropped onto their chests while they passed out?
 
vywh
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:37 pm

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:56 pm

Regarding to your knowledge,what are the possibilities that the sound might be?

Thanks
 
SQ325
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:59 pm

Maybe this sound came of some kind of vibration of a certain part of the Aircraft body! This vibration could have lead into a damage of the cell!
Only speculation
I also doubt the Heartbeat theory.
 
D-AIGW
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:13 pm

Even if the microphones dropped to their chests, do you think that it is SO sensitive as to pick up the sounds of their heartbeat?
 
Singapore 777
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat May 29, 1999 3:00 pm

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:14 pm

Quite true. However, the investigator did mention something about it resembling heartbeat sounds.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6040
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:58 pm

Resembling heartbeat sounds does NOT mean heartbeats. It probably means that they were muffled thuds. Could range anything from a pilot knocking his flight bag to structural failure in the aft cabin. Don't read so much into things until there are more details.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:19 pm

I wonder if aerodynamic 'flutter' had some part. All planes are susceptible to it but accidents are rare.
 
svenvdm
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:23 am

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:05 am

This is the article from the AIR TRANSPORT WORLD web site at http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=2023

It's more detailed than the article linked to in the initial post.

-->
China Airlines CVR offers no easy answers to breakup
Dateline: Tuesday June 25, 2002

The mystery has deepened into the loss of China Airlines Flight 611 on May 25 after initial readings of the cockpit voice recorder in Taiwan.

Contents of the CVR recovered from the sea last week were made public by Taiwan's Aviation Safety Council after leaks to newspapers. The tape lasts 31 min. 56 sec. and up to the 17-min. mark reveals normal conversation between crewmembers. Then for 0.3 of a second there is no signal from the CVR.
At the 18-min. mark, which corresponds to 1514 local time, there is a faint tapping sound. At the same time, other mysterious noises are heard in the cockpit and the captain tells passengers to fasten their seatbelts. This explains why the body of the inflight service director was recovered strapped to a crew seat. The tapping noises continue for about 2 min. and stop at 1516.

At 1520, the 24th minute of the tape, there are several short thumping sounds, likened to a human heartbeat. At 1524 the faint tapping sound is heard again with 10 repetitions over 3 min. The tape ends at 1528 just after a sudden thump is heard. The pilot's conversation during this period is normal and the only sign of any problem is the request for passengers and crew to be seated.

The mysterious sounds lead some safety analysts to consider that the aircraft may have suffered a structural failure of some kind rather than an explosion. The FDR is being analyzed and it is likely that data will be released this week.
<--

Hearing the plane break up around you for 15 minutes must be a nightmare come true!

I'd really like to know what you think!
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:22 am

I think it is probably some freak structural break-up that insurers describes as an "act of God." The sounds could have been popping rivets.
 
na
Posts: 9173
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:53 am

Why didn´t the pilots descend? That the conversation sounds normal even after they encountered "something" points towards a situation where they thought about nothing serious - until the sudden end.
Was it a rudder coming loose maybe? If so why didn´t the pilots report anything then or at least expressed signs of shock, an outcry?
That there was "normal" conversation obviously during the aircrafts strange flight manouvres in the last minutes has not been reported so far. So far it was said (by CNN and others) that there were only strange sounds to be heard during the last sequence of the flight causing suspicion the pilots were out of control already.
But how can a structural breakup propel a part of the aircraft so vehemently into the opposite direction?
A fueltank-explosion becomes more and more unlikely.
CI611 becomes more and more a mystery.
 
svenvdm
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:23 am

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 3:35 am

Could it be the sound of the pressure bulkhead disintegrating? That could have been the part flying off in the opposite direction.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:10 am

There is a new article about the crash in the NYTimes. You need a user id to read it. According to the article, pilot error and explosion have been ruled out. A couple of other interesting details emerged: the plane started a rapid (but within limits) climb 27 seconds before breakup. The crew did not notice or at least did not comment. Also the #4 engine dropped slightly in power right before the breakup.

It gets weirder and weirder.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/25/international/25CND-TAIW.html
 
manuel
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:20 pm

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:25 am

Or could it have been the autopilot trim sound, again considering the pilots ignored the sound. Well this doesn't lead to the cause, but might explain the sound. Why isn't a fuel tank explosion included in the speculation? The end of the tape is obviously so abrupt that I don't think the plane broke into pieces inflight. If a plane suffers material fatigue, it doesn't happen at the same time at all ends. However an explosion like TW800 doesn't give the pilots any chance of reacting, resulting in the abrupt end of the tape. Didn't the airline operators of 747 classics react on the TWA accident and checked all the wiring in their planes???
thought over thoughts......
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:48 am

I think the trim sound would have been recognized. Pilot and safety experts have listened and said it is not a normal cockpit sound. The fuel tank explosion has been ruled out. Svendvm could be correct.
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:22 am

The idea of flying is not so appealing anymore, atleast to me, even on my last flight on a PIA 747-300 from Islamabad to Karachi last August, I did not feel too comfortable and looked forward to landing safely on the ground, strangely just as I noticed the altitude we were cruising at which was the maximum 35000 feet at the time the plane started to shudder, and the idea of flight seemed more unappealing than ever before even thou it was a brief one and half hour journey. I know its not like that but not being a regular flyer thats how it has started seeming to me, anyways I hope the thought of what happened to CI 611 never crosses my mind when Im on my next flight, that such things can happen is quite unnerving.
.....up there with the best!
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: CI611 CVR Records "Mysterious Noises"

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:42 am

I understand that the F/E's panel on the 747-200 is mounted on self-adjusting joints because it doesn't stay flush with the aircraft fuselage, and that it is quite normal for it to rattle and bang in flight.