SInGAPORE_AIR
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Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:27 am

Swiss International Air Lines said that it would like to follow the lines of Singapore Airlines and to position itself as a premium airline focusing on the core business of flying.

However, it has no intention of repeating what SIA and Swissair have done in taking small stakes in airlines.

Arjen Pen, Executive vice-president, sales and marketing said, "'The new carrier will focus on its core business, which is flying. Swissair went under because of its financial strategy of buying small stakes in second-class carriers in Europe."

"This proved to be unprofitable and the events of Sept 11 were the final blow."

"The strategy of the former carrier was to go after volumes. Our new strategy is to become one of the premium airlines in Europe, maybe even the SIA of Europe."

Mr Pen says that Swiss is investing "double-digit millions of Swiss Francs" in the Business and Economy Class, expects to cary 75 000 000 passengers and have a load factor of 75%.

Mr Pen also said that Asia was an important market for Swiss, "'Asia is our second-largest market after Europe-US, and it has picked up very fast in terms of bookings and load factors."

More information at the



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SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:29 am

I think there's a script problem. Just click the link for the full article!  Confused
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dynkrisolo
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:18 am

They have taken the very first step to become The Singapore Airlines of Europe. Their initials are SIA.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Marara
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:56 pm

I thought swiss wanted to be a good carrier...... Oh well.



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northwest 777
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:18 pm

In the actual article it reads that they expect to carry 11 million passengers, not 75 million as you stated. Just thought I would clear that up for anyone who doesn't read the article itself.  Smile Thanks for posting the article!

Brian
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:48 pm

Swissair used to be the SIA of Europe (or SIA was the Swissair of Asia, depending on how you look at the situation), then Swissair lost the plot.

Good luck to Swiss- they might need it.
 
hkg82
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:14 pm

Emulating SIA's success & standards in Europe is going to be a challenge, as well as following in the footsteps of Swissair, as they were recognised by many as Europe's best airline.

Their load factors to Asia are great. ZRH-HKG/SIN has the premium business traffic & BKK is one of Asia's prime tourist destinations.

Hkg82.
 
swissgabe
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of Europe!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:10 pm

First of all I think it is always bad to compare a European Airline with an Asian one. I don't know what Swiss has the same as SQ has. Why should we compare Swiss only with SQ and not with TG, MH, CX, JL etc. All this airlines are at least as good as Singapore Airlines, sorry, but I think this is just another non-sense pro SQ posting...
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hkg82
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of Europe!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:04 pm

You've raised a good point Swissgabe, considering the article is from the notorious Straits Times it's obviously a pro-SQ story. But it was Arjen Pen, SIAL executive vice-president, who made the comment about wanting Swiss to become the SIA of Europe. I don't know why he chose to compare Swiss with SIA but perhaps he wants Swiss to become Europe's most profitable carrier, as SQ is in Asia. I would think he'd compare Swiss with Swissair, but that's probably not appropriate considering the sensitivity over the collapse of Swissair.

Hkg82.

 
cfalk
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:13 pm

The similarity between Swiss and Singapore Airlines is very strong.

Both are based in small countries within a much larger population mass. Switzerland's population (7 million) and Singapore's (4.5 million) are both insufficient to feed a large airline of 100+ aircraft, including a lot of widebodies.

Lacking a sizable local market, both airlines need to tap into other countries' populations, convincing them to fly with them rather than their own indigenous airlines. This strategy has allowed Singapore Air to grow into a huge operation which depends largely on foreigners. Passengers flying in asia will often take a detour in order to fly on SIA rather than perhaps a more direct route with Air China or Korean Air, for example.

This strategy is identical to that of Swissair in the 80's and early 90's. The comfort and service on Swissair were so good compared to the other major European airlines that many travelers, especially high-margin business travelers would go out of their way to fly through Zurich on SR. SR's greatest mistake was to abandon that strategy.

Good luck to them - I only hope they can make up for the decade they wasted while other airlines caught up.

Charles
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ZRH
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:17 pm

I think this will be the only strategy which could work. Good luck.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:44 pm

Whereas SQ does have many things to be proud of, they have things they should be ashamed of as well. Lets hope Swiss just follows the good examples and not the bad ones.
 
swissgabe
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:14 pm

Cx flyboy
Thats the point, well, I think it is wrong for Swiss just to compare it self with SQ. There are hundred of good airlines out there and every airline should be better than all others, not only better than SQ or what ever...
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RayChuang
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:21 pm

I think SQ has really been successful for these reasons:

1. Singapore is a major business center, so there is already considerable premium traffic in and out of Singapore.

2. SQ makes major money on these routes from Singapore: KUL, CGK (JKT), HKG, SYD, TPE, NRT, SFO (via HKG), LAX (via TPE), and LHR.

In order for Swiss to be successful, they'll have to very carefully position themselves against all the competition from BA, AF, and LH, not to mention the discount carriers such as U2 and FR.
 
SQ772
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:29 pm

I don't think when Arjen Pen said he hoped Swiss will be like SQ, he was refering to having identical cabin service at all. I tend to agree with Cfalk that he was probably refering to the fact that Switzerland (LX) and Singapore (SQ) had many commonalities.

There's always a better way to fly...
 
donder10
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:33 pm

LMAO@Swiss expect to carry 75M pax.That's alot more than LHR in a year.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:35 pm

Well I think it's quite nice that Swiss wants to become the SIA of Europe. They are going to have a nice little fleet and I think they have the potential to be a large airline. However, a feeling tells me that a person from JFK would rather take BA to LHR and then to ZRH rather than LX to ZRH direct. Dunno why, just seems that way to me. I live in England  Laugh out loud

Swissgabe: "All this airlines are at least as good as Singapore Airlines, sorry, but I think this is just another non-sense pro SQ posting..." - I'm sorry, but if you look at the article, it is actually the Executive vice president saying that Swiss wants to become the SIA of Europe. Unless you think that Swiss is nonsense as well..
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swissgabe
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:53 pm

RayChuang
I don't think that the question should be if SQ is good or not, successful or not etc.

Just to mention, do you really think that SQ makes money on the SIN-KUL vv? I don't think so at all...

Singapore_Air
A feeling tells me that there are thousands of passengers every year who are taking TG, LX, MH, CX etc from ZRH via X to SIN than SQ directly.

I didn't say that Swiss is no-sense, I said that the thing he "said" is no-sense for me...


Again, I think the thing which Arjen Pen said (where did he say this) wasn't very smart. If you want to build up an excellent airline etc. you should say that this should be better than an Airline "X". You simply have to be better than all other airlines, if his target is only to "beat" SQ and not all other airlines it can't work. I hope he knows that there are plenty of other nice airlines and some of them might be even better than SQ (maybe not in all points but there are airlines who are doing things better than SQ, plenty of them, no airline is perfect and can do everything).
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airmale
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:32 am

Weren't predecessor Swissair already the Singapore Airlines of Europe???

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OA412
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:58 am

Weren't predecessor Swissair already the Singapore Airlines of Europe???

Indeed they were until they bought into almost every unprofitable airline in Europe and diluted their product to the point where it was almost unrecognizable from that offered by its partners. In the end, SR was a mere shadow of its former self.


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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:27 am

*ahem*, the Singapore airlines of Europe is BA.  Big grin

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hkgspotter1
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:28 am

Marara,

That's a great reply, I could not have said it any better !!

Lets hope Swiss get their CRM in order and Pilots listen to each other.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:25 pm

Typical Swiss...

Their amibition is just like Swissair, always be the boss and always be the biggest...

Why do you think that they participated in Sabena? Switzerland was not a member of the EU, and because the plann with Austrian Airlines, KLM and SAS had failed, they needed a new partner. They wanted to be the biggest. A huge management mistake!

A normal start up airline is looking for the cheapest solutions, what does Swiss: new aircrafts (A343's,...)

Let them do!! Do not forget that the flying activities of SR were already lossmaking for more than 10 years!! Lucky that they had the catering,... So you couldn't see those figures in the yearly financial report.

Now what do we see: Swiss is making the same mistakes.

Guys, keep one thing in mind: you have a very bad and unrealistic management. And with the management you have now, I would not be surprised to expect very big difficulties in the future.

I don't want to start a ware here, I am just giving my opinion. I hope you will once realize that your home market is too small for such an airline.

Just my 2 cents...

Regards,
Frederic

 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of?Europe!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:34 pm

Oh Frederic, we heard you many times with this. It is correct that it was the biggest management mistake to participate in Sabena. You did not read the the Swiss statement correctly. Swiss does NOT want to be big but good, quality not quantity I know that you Belgians can not understand this because the word "quality" is unknown with you, you know the word "strike" better.
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of?Europe!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:40 pm

Frederic: BTW to buy new A 343 is perhaps the cheapest solution for the future. The MD 11 are extremely expensive in overhaul. We have serious problems with noise at Zurich airport this might be an other important reason.
 
swissgabe
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:12 pm

Sabena 690
Go and talk about Sabena, I don't think that any Swiss guy needs your comments over here. We can discuss without you...

I don't want to reply to any of your points because I think you are anyway not able to understand other opinions.

Do you want me to right down my stupid and non-sense comments in every SNBA discussion?

cheers

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Sabena 690
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:17 pm

I was not referring to Sabena here, I was only referring to the situation of Swiss.

The Singapore Airlines of Europe, comme on... This sounds very nice, but can't you see that this is impossible??

Stay growing Swiss, stay growing, the bancs will certainly pay for the big losses they will make.
 
swissgabe
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:33 pm

Sabena 690
If you would have been related to the topic and if you would know what others are talking about you would have seen that I said it is bad to compare Swiss with SQ since you can't compare a European Airline with a Asian one.

What I also said is that your text is more "against" Swiss than related to any topic or discussion and that's why I think you should stop this immediately! when you write most of the people know what you are saying and what you said about Swiss/Swissair earlier and your opinion regarding this point is NOT needed anymore.

Just regarding your point, the cheapest solution isn't the best one. Safety is expensive but an excellent sales tool and very important. An excellent image you have to buy and this isn't cheap at all.

Just to mention that if you want to be a leading airline you need to be better than all others and you have to deliver a excellent service better than all others.
As Cfalk and others already said, Swissair used to do this strategy with comfort and excellent service, this was very costly but people paid for flying an excellent airline. What Swissair did was wrong, they thought their image would be perfect for ever and they don't have to do anything in the future (in my opinion, SQ does the same as Swissair has done 10 years ago).
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Sabena 690
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:41 pm

Just to mention that if you want to be a leading airline you need to be better than all others and you have to deliver a excellent service better than all others.

Ok, but when are you guys going to try to face and realize that Switzerland is maybe too small to have such an airline!!!!

You always want to have the biggest possible thing, but it is not with being the biggest and the best that you will make money!!!! Be realistic!!

And it is sad to see that you are trying to bann me from Swiss discussions. Are you afraid that I will say true things against Swiss??

This is a discussion forum were everyone can write down his opinion.

And believe me, if Swiss becomes good and big, I will certainly not have a problem to admit that here.

But NOW Swiss does NOT deserve this. IMO, Swiss is not saved at all at the moment. Do you want me to write that they are doing good right now? No, they are not doing good, so I will not write this down.

From the moment that they are doing good, I will not have any problem at all to admit this, believe me.


 
keesje
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of?Europe!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:49 pm

Swiss International Air Lines mngt better stops walking with their heads in the clouds (again) and start being the most realistic and profitable airline of Europe.

Behind the scenes SQ gets a lot of (in-) direct support from their government when buying fuel, aircraft, new airport facility's and surpressing unions.

Is that what SIAL needs ?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Saint-Exupery
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:53 pm

Sabena 690
There's nothing written in the article about size, just about quality. Swiss aims for quality. And it's possible to have the "best" airline in terms of quality in Switzerland, the size of the home market doesn't affect quality. You can even have a one-plane fleet and have the best quality worldwide. Size doesn't matter.
 
keesje
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:10 pm

For me Best Airline interms of quality means

- most destinations/ highest frequency's
- best price (value for money)
- most professional, least arrogant crew and ground staff
- leave on time with my luggage
- comfortable seats and airport lounges

What do you mean with airline quality ?

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Saint-Exupery
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:35 pm

For me Best Airline interms of quality means

- most destinations/ highest frequency's

For me this is not a quality criteria. If the airline doesn't fly to my destination, or the schedule is not convenient for me, I'll fly another airline. In that case I don't even consider to fly the high-quality airline. This point is about availability, not quality.

- best price (value for money)

Best price as you said, not cheapest price.

- most professional, least arrogant crew and ground staff

totally agree. Best case for that would be that everyone on the plane feels at home and have your personal butler.

- leave on time with my luggage

agree

- comfortable seats and airport lounges

agree

 
pothiabs
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:38 pm

A small message to the people who are chasing Sabena 690 away :
It might be usefull to wipe the Swiss chocolate out of your eyes and open them.

Swiss is starting off with the same arrogant attitude that brought Swissair down.

They just have the advantage they can thrive on the "Swiss fly swiss" mentality, but have kept their eyes shut for the evolution of aviation worldwide : Alliances shaping and tight cost-controls.

And it's once again the Swiss banks (also Airbus shareholder ) who pull the strings, imposing way too big and too expensive aircraft that are not suitable for the chosen routes.

Company : mixing ex-Crossair and ex-Swissair employees may even turn out to be the toughest obstacle. Just look at the greedy ex-Crossair pilots who thought THEY would be flying the big jets and now feel betrayed, ask for wage increases and also even use the word "strike". (It's not a Belgian patent apparently).  Wink/being sarcastic

The mentality of those chasing away Sabena 690 says it all : so why don't you guys stay on your mountain top being dum, fat and happy and don't ever come down again.

I think (and hope) Pieter Bouw will soon find out how things are done in the "Gonvéderation Elllvétiege" and pack his bags. Swiss doesn't deserve a top-quality guy like Bouw.

This time it's not even worth organizing a bet : DAT will collapse before Swiss does, even with the Belgian State buying a massive amount of tickets to prevent DAT from going down before national elections take place. But collapse they will both do...just a small appendix to the SN-SR débacle.




 
Saint-Exupery
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:56 pm

Pothiabs

"Swiss is starting off with the same arrogant attitude that brought Swissair down."

What brought down Swissair was that they left pure high-quality segment and put their passengers in planes of TAP, Sabena, AOM and other airlines not exactly to be known for high-quality service at that time.
What brought down SairGroup is another story.

"They just have the advantage they can thrive on the "Swiss fly swiss" mentality, but have kept their eyes shut for the evolution of aviation worldwide : Alliances shaping and tight cost-controls."

Swiss is trying to get into oneworld, never heard about that ? There's a problem about slots at LHR but that's nothing knew in this alliance.
Swiss is cutting costs where it's possible. Just today there was an article about them in a "newspaper" in Switzerland. They send two planes to ASL in Hamburg for maintenance instead of letting the work be done by SR Technics. ASL was cheaper. Some people in Switzerland aren't exactly happy about that. And buying planes in this situation is not the worst thing that can be done. Planes are cheap as never before in the last years. So why not replace the MD11 know when it's cheap instead of waiting 2 or 3 years when the prices are higher ?


I'm not sure at all that Swiss will be a success. But if such "open minded" people as Sabena 690 start to tell the same stories time after time I get a funny feeling in my stomach.
 
swissgabe
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:02 pm

Pothiabs
Already the first sentence with "to wipe the Swiss chocolate out of your eyes" explains everything... Guess you are the guy who thinks Swiss/Switzerland is a synonym for chocolate and banks and nothing else.

Chasing Sabena 690 is not the right word. What we (or at least I) don't like are always the non-sense comments about Swiss/Swissair/Crossair etc. where you can read and see his hate because of the thing that happened to Sabena which has NOTHING to do with this discussion.

I also don't think that this is a Airbus vs. Boeing topic and we are not talking about reasons why Swiss bought Airbus, but it makes sense to operate an all Airbus or an all Boeing fleet.

In your eyes, what is an excellent airline doing a good job in your opinion? Wipe out your ketchup out of your eyes and tell me ...


Sabena690
And it is sad to see that you are trying to ban me from Swiss discussions. Are you afraid that I will say true things against Swiss??

This is a discussion forum were everyone can write down his opinion.
As long as you are related to the topic yes, as long as you don't try to blame the Sabena thing on Swiss/Swissair on a question about quality, yes. Otherwise, go away

And believe me, if Swiss becomes good and big, I will certainly not have a problem to admit that here.
Don't believe you because the sentence which comes as next...

But NOW Swiss does NOT deserve this. IMO, Swiss is not saved at all at the moment. Do you want me to write that they are doing good right now? No, they are not doing good, so I will not write this down.

If you are discussing about new routes and the SNBA quality etc. I don't write down comments like: "they are bad", "I don't like them", "they made SN bankrupt", "they have stolen money" etc...
This not only happened in this forum, there should be a certain altitude on a discussion forum respecting other users but not if you are talking the way you are and try to blame always everything on Swiss, Swissair etc just because you HATE them because what happened to Sabena...
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Sabena 690
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:12 pm

Thanks for the support Keesje and Pothiabs!!

Nice to see that at least some people are not with their heads in the clouds.

This is a mail I sent to Swissgabe and ZRH, to clarify why SR bought into SN:

Hello,

To avoid a SN/SR war in that topic, let's discuss via email than.

This was your statement:

It is correct that it was the biggest management mistake to participate in Sabena.

I don't think so, and why? This is why SR participated in SN, and these are facts:

x Ever heard of Alcazar? This was the plann of SR to have a coöperation with SK, KL and OS.
What happened? SR realized that they needed a strong partner within the EU. Their home market was too small to operate like they did. Do not forget that the flying activities of Swissair were already lossmaking for more than 10 years!!!! Luckily they had the catering, ... so they could make their year results much more better, or better said, their year results looked much better. So it is a very big mistake to say that SR was financially doing good untill 1995, when they participated in Sabena!!! They were already doing bad before the time of Sabena!! What happened? SR and KL and SK had both 30% in the alliance, OS only 10%. After some time, SR decided they wanted more than 30%!! (Again they wanted more than another, this shows good how they are).

So Alcazar failed. In the meantime SR was doing very bad. Their financial results were very very bad.

So to have again a foot in Europe, they wanted a coöperation with Sabena, they WANTED one. And because Sabena was in trouble after the bad coöperation with Air France, both carriers agreed, and SR took a 49,5 stake in Sabena. Sabena could give Sr the free EU market, which was just made free by the EU. Without SN, Sr would have had enormous difficulties to survive!! SR was not a member of the EU, do you realize how bad this was for SR???? So they NEEDED Sabena, like Sabena needed a partner!! And believe me, SR payed a VERY low price for Sabena, only 300 millions Euro. In an audit, Mc Kinsey advised three possibilities for SR to survive: one becoming less big (what they certainly didn't want), have an alliance with one of the 3 big players (BA, LH or AF) or have a global network with partners. They chose for the third one, the global network with partners, which was a typical Swiss decision; for the others it had to reduce it's activities, and this was impossible for the management. So please stop with saying that it was a big error of Swissair to participate in Sabena, it was not a big error. The reason why this failled was not only the weak financial position of Sabena, but also the weak financial position of Swissair.

I put my time in this, I hope you make some time to discuss this. Every thing I write here are facts, only facts.

Best regards,
Frederic


No reaction untill now.

I proceed with discussing the SR/SN case when we have the official results of the investigation commission.

Untill now, the only thing you can do is confirm the above.

And the posts regarding the quality issues of Keesje are also completely right.

Regards,
Frederic
 
pothiabs
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:02 pm

Nevermind SN690,

Let time tell us whether Swiss was right or right. (thay can't be wrong now, can they ?!)

It's easier to blame one's self-destruction on external factors than to admit one's own errors in judgement and decision-making.

It's even human....

But following the same path that brought disaster has few to do with intelligence. (Same applies for the Belgian companies DAT and Birdy)
 
swissgabe
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RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:17 pm

Pothiabs
It's easier to blame one's self-destruction on external factors than to admit one's own errors in judgment and decision-making.
I think that's exactly was SN does, it is well known that the former SR management made BIG errors and no one denied this any time. Just to inform you that the Swiss police is investigating in this case since last MAR against 3 former SR Managers (names not official named).

And there was an answer I put to you. You seem to know everything better than others so it shouldn't be a problem to give me an answer.

Sabena 690
Thanks for your Email. No reaction so far because I have been in lunch (makes sense, doesn't it?). Thanks for explaining me the Alcazar project and other points. I don't see any point to discuss with you further because I simply think that we have done this earlier too and I don't think that you can remember one of the many points we provided you as answer and is NON-sense to discuss with you. And I know that there are many other users who would agree on this and you know their names, not only ZRH and me.
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gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:46 pm

I knew and predicted it already, that with the first SWISS related topic, SN690 would jump out of his garbage can. Remember, SN690?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

To make it short: SWISS wants to be the best, not the greatest. Quality over quantity. That shows, that the actual management has actually learned a lot from the previous management, which tried to be the greatest, and not the best. That's why they invested in second class airlines and decreased their own product, instead of concentrating on quality.

pothiabs said: "so why don't you guys stay on your mountain top being dum, fat and happy and don't ever come down again."

Thank you, you first, my little "dum, fat and happy" belgian (sorry, I'm only quoting).

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:56 pm

I don't see any point to discuss with you further because I simply think that we have done this earlier too and I don't think that you can remember one of the many points we provided you as answer and is NON-sense to discuss with you.

Hehe, nice to see how many times you repeat this. The only thing you can do is providing this, because you hope I will stop with providing true things about Swiss/Swissair.

But you are right!! I don't put my time in this discussions anymore. I have better things to do than trying to convince you.

And btw, difficult to discuss with me, but sorry Swissgabe and the others, but in this case, I never saw you giving one FACT!!

You can only bashing the ones which don't have your opinion, but giving facts, I never saw this.

See you in the next SN/SR war, and this will be when we have the OFFICIAL RESULTS.

Than you may say what you want, I hope you are not living that high in the clouds that you will even ignore the official results.



 
keesje
Posts: 8864
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of?Europe!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:05 pm

I think the most successful (private) European airlines Lufthansa, KLM and Easyjet are not so much focusing on quality over quantity but profitability and reliability over frills.

Swissair always wanted to offer the highest quality and invested heavily in interiors, catering, airports etc. Have you forgotten ?

In that respect apparently nothing has changed, remember the :
Excellent First Class:

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Photo © Claus Reifferscheidt


Great European product; leather seats, great food:

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Photo © Philippe Gindrat


PTV in economy class 2 yrs ago :

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Philippe Gindrat



Swiss people saying expensive quality is the solution make me pessimistic on the fact if they really know what is needed ...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:17 pm

Back to the original topic: LX wants to be the European SQ. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with SQ?

If you think, SWISS should only offer a cheap product, then OK. That's your opinion, and not more and for sure not a fact.

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
lukebaker
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:25 pm

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:24 pm

Surely if Swiss wants to be a premium airline, surely it should be following the style of BA. A top quality product that is one of the lowest cost airlines in Europe. Yes, it has not been making a profit but yes, its economy and buisness products are the best offered by any airline.
If a donkey sings, would it fart?
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:36 pm

Sabena 690
Well, with normal people they understand a simple sentence after reading it once, you need a little big longer. It shows your way of discussing in a public forum.
On one side you want to tell us that you are the only one providing real FACTs and on the other side you claim to wait for the OFFICIAL RESULTS. Do you know what you want? You want us to provide the TRUE FACTS and on the other side you would like to wait for the OFFICIAL RESULTS. I don't think that you know what you want and what you are talking about...

Gerardo is right, a good product, an excellent service, a good image (again after SR), a good Safety standard etc. has its price and I wonder if Belgian Airline will also spend some money on this or only in the staff salaries and fuel.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:28 pm

I hope that the official investigation will convince you.

And about safety: Sabena was the 3th safest company in the world.

Swiss(air) would better invest in safety, after their accidents (or have you forgotten them, don't forget that Crossair is also a member of Swiss now, and they had also 2 accidents!! The third one is the SR MD11).

So a good safety standard, give me a break
 
keesje
Posts: 8864
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:43 pm

IMO Swissair traditionally had a good product, an excellent service, a good image, a good Safety Image etc.

The point is they have come of that mountain and start cooperating instead of trying to buy marketshare / status / passengers with other people's money.

Only smart airlines will surive.

Lots of people (and Yes, count in the Samsonites) think Easyjet offers far better value for money from Geneva.

Swiss should take that as a starting point instead of building dreamfactory's.

Just my thoughts,
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Keesje
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
MAC100
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of?Europe!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:51 pm

As somebody who just flew SWISS (IAD-ZRH-BOS), I have to say that the service is better than it used to be on SR, but it's still a far cry from the service you can get on other airlines (BA for example). The economy seats are as cramped and uncomfortable as ever. Since they will soon be the slowest carrier from Europe to Asia (having just purchased 343s) they better do something about it. If they want to attract people from outside of Switzerland to use their carrier they have to come up with something real good for customers to chose LX 343 service over 747 / 777 service out of other European airports.
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Swiss Aims To Be The Singapore Airlines Of €urope!

Wed Jun 26, 2002 11:19 pm

Sabena 690
I hope that the official investigation will convince you.
As I said, earlier, there is already an investigation of the police against 3 former Managers of SR since last year. No names have been mentioned. But pls explain me, of what should an investigation convince me. I already know there was a wrong and bad management but I don't think that this will show us new facts or more than we already know.

An accident doesn't show actually the efforts of an airline does invest in their Safety standard and as long as no reason has been given for the accident I can't say what was wrong. But it seems as you are proud of this fact that 229 people lost their life at a Swissair crash since you say that they "would" better invest in their safety. If you wouldn't talk in that big words and if you would know the real facts, you would know that even Swissair invested a lot of money into Safety.

At the end it seems as you over flew my text, here it is again for you:
On one side you want to tell us that you are the only one providing real FACTs and on the other side you claim to wait for the OFFICIAL RESULTS. Do you know what you want? You want us to provide the TRUE FACTS and on the other side you would like to wait for the OFFICIAL RESULTS. I don't think that you know what you want and what you are talking about...

Have a nice day, now I have better things to do...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok

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